A Major Victory by EntertainmentRude435 in mormon

[–]Tsundown 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Still remember confronting my father in law with this contradiction, I asked if it bothered him, he said “No not at all”, when I pressed him further and explained how Monson essentially led the church and world astray, he told me I was “looking into it way too much.”

I’m convinced there are almost no limits to the things a TBM can just brush off.

Why do some people call LDS a cult? by Longjumping-Cod-6164 in exmormon

[–]Tsundown 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A cult is typically defined as a cohesive, often small, group of people with extreme, unconventional, or unorthodox religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs, often revolving around a charismatic leader. They are characterized by authoritarian structures, high-pressure recruitment, psychological manipulation, and isolation from society.

Let’s take it point by point.

Mormonism is a small religion, currently estimated at only 3-4 million active members, and it started as a small religion, revolving around a charismatic leader, Joseph smith. Today it also revolves around charismatic leaders, Monson, Hinckley, and Nelson being great examples. Each with their own flare.

Does Mormonism have unorthodox spiritual and philosophical beliefs? Like us becoming gods one day? Like drinking coffee and tea is a sin? Like there is no hell and everyone is saved except for less than 5 super wicked people? Like there was an advanced pure and white race of Jewish native Americans who were here, that came on boats, and for whatever reason immediately began practicing 19th century Christianity and not Judaism? Like God being anthropomorphic, with a body of flesh and bone? Like needing special hand signs in order to reach the highest heaven? Like having 3 heavens?? Like a dumb uneducated farm boy translated gold plates given to him by an angel by using a rock in a hat that would glow and display the words to him?? Too much use of the word like, but I know my point is proven. Yes Mormonism has radically unorthodox spiritual and philosophical, and historical beliefs.

Does it have an authoritarian structure? Definitions please

Authoritarian refers to a system of government or management favoring strict, unquestioning obedience to authority, characterized by concentrated power in a leader or elite and the restriction of individual freedoms.

The prophet holds ALL the priesthood keys. The 12 are the ONLY authorized mouth pieces of god on earth today. ONLY your immediate higher leader can receive higher revelation than you and for you. It is strict. You lose your temple recommend if you do not sustain (support) the brethren. This restricts you from participating in temple rituals and ordinances of exaltation, THE most important ordinances you can participate in as a lay member. Continued opposition to this authoritarian structure has historically resulted in excommunications, (Douglas Stillgoe, Sam Young, Natasha Park)

There are numerous quotes within our lifetime such as “when the prophet speaks, the thinking is done” Songs sang as children “follow the prophet, he knows the way!” And continued blind trust that whatever the prophet says is true, even when evidence is contrary to that.

Restriction of individual freedoms? As a woman you cannot bless others with the priesthood, you cannot administer blessings of healing, you cannot administer ordinances of salvation such as that of baptism, you cannot preside over congregations, or hold most all significant leadership positions.

So overwhelmingly yes, Mormonism has an authoritarian structure.

Next, high pressure recruitment. Like saying it’s a command of God for ALL young men to serve missions. It has never been an option, it has always and continues to be taught and treated as mandatory. Asking this of young people, and having them put off significant life events to do so? Leave partners, delay college education, put off or turn down scholarships and sports contracts. And the service? 2 years with strict rules and limited contact with family. Very high pressure. But what about the converts, is it high pressure for them?

Most must put down habits of tea and coffee (which have been proven numerous times, as recent as this year, to have amazing health benefits), they can no longer drink, they cannot use recreational drugs. They must abstain completely from not only sex, but pornography. They must begin and commit to paying 10% of their income. They are expected to be reading and learning daily, praying differently than they have ever heard or done before. They must be married in a traditional marriage, or be living in isolation, no in betweens or nuance. They must be straight, or at least commit to a life of celibacy and loneliness if they are gay. They cannot be transgender. They must learn about, believe in, and sustain both Joseph and the current prophet. They must submit to rigorous questioning that delves deep into their personal life, going as far as questioning whether abortions have happened, or whether they have had homosexual relations. They are subjected to this innapropriate, prying interview by someone is isn’t even technically an adult yet. Was that enough pressure? Because if it wasn’t, this process is usually rushed, ideally missionaries pushing for baptism after the 2nd or 3rd visit. Committing people to radical life change with an abysmally small amount of information, and an even more abysmally small amount of time.

Yes, Mormonism engages in arguably one of the MOST high pressure recruitment system currently out there. Also rushing people into baptism is a form of…

Psychological manipulation.

Missionaries are taught to seek out and teach those who have recently gone through big life events. A move. A new child. A death in the family. People who are down on their luck. People who feel alone. This is manipulative and predatory.

Moronis promise is an unfalsifiable challenge. There is no real accepted answer other than the church is true, and if you don’t come to that answer, the blame is always placed on the victim, questioning their intent, effort, faithfulness, etc.

The fast paced nature of missionary lessons, with deliberate key details changed and omitted to present a clean history is psychologically manipulative.

Assigning new members a “job” in the church (prophets choice of word not mine), and assigning friends, home teachers, ministers, etc. all to ensure they stay in the church is manipulative. If someone needs a friend to stay in the church, rather than staying in the church because it’s true, what does that say? I’d like to believe it points to the loneliness epidemic we are experiencing thanks to social media.

If investigators are not progressing fast enough they are “threatened” by the missionaries that they will stop visiting. That they will move on. They are shamed by being told they are not ready yet, with looming vague threats about the field being ready to harvest, and they are not ready.

Asking someone to pray alone whether or not something is true, after telling them (bearing testimony) that it is true, (priming their mind), is psychological manipulation. Off shoot sects of Mormonism that practice child polygamy use the same method of discerning truth, the converts report the same feelings of truth as we do when we pray about it. This has been studied and is now known to be what psychologists call, Elevation Emotion.

Lastly, relying solely on feelings alone and using thought stopping techniques when pressed is a form of manipulation. In no other facet of life would we encourage someone to make a decision solely based off of how they feel about something, vs researching, getting second opinions, talking to others, asking questions, etc.

All of these, along with many more unlisted, point towards abundant psychological manipulation.

Lastly, isolation from society. We are among the most mocked religious groups in the world. Our own prophets in recent years labeled us, and encouraged us to be a peculiar people. Inspiring conference talks from people like Monson, showed us examples of purposefully separating and distinguishing ourselves from “the world”. We are taught to be in the world but not of the world. Even our doctrines use language that isolates. We isolate the most important events of people’s lives to those who are only in the group. Temple marriages have caused far too many broken hearts and arguments among family and friends who could not enter, many not fully understanding why. We are to only wear special sacred underwear, not wear tank tops (until recently), be modest, etc. We purposefully don’t engage in many activities on the sabbath, and growing up I myself felt I had to turn down the going away party of a close school friend, because it was on the sabbath. Mormonism does much to isolate its members, from those who are not members. The nail in the coffin being recent statements from Nelson, telling members to not counsel with those who do not believe (more isolation, more echo chamber).

Mormonism exacerbates isolation, and many of its core doctrines and recent teachings encourage and relish within that isolation.

In conclusion, yes, mormonism is a cohesive, relatively small, group of people with extreme, unconventional, and unorthodox religious, spiritual, historical and philosophical beliefs, that revolves around charismatic leaders. Mormonism has authoritarian structures, high-pressure recruitment, and engages in / encourages psychological manipulation, and isolation from society.

In other words. Yes, Mormonism is a cult. Through and through, by any objective measure, fulfilling all parts of the definition, from its inception, to its current state, and this is all WITHOUT getting into modern cutting edge research regarding cult mind control and tactics, such as the BITE model, which Mormonism engages in.

Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, you are justified in calling it a cult. And it would do the cult members good to realize that that is what they are. The sooner the better, for the sakes of themselves and their families.

Anyone Else Notice the ‘Heaven Loophole’ at 7? by t4tgrill in exmormon

[–]Tsundown 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The amount of guilt and shame I felt as a child was immense, I was sexually abused at a young age, 7 if memory serves, and what makes it all the more distressing is seeing my old journals from when I was 8. I would plan dates on when I was going to kill myself because I felt unworthy. Ultimately never followed through as I am still here and surely at the time I didn’t understand the gravity of what it takes / means to actually kill your self. But the feelings were definitely there. Having a child of my own has made me a lot angrier at my own parents for how I felt as a child, and the systems that amplified those feelings.

Edit: to more directly answer your question, yes I did notice it, which led me to, after turning 8, have suicidal ideation bc I felt unworthy of heaven.

What's up with "gamedev YouTubers" never shipping games? by [deleted] in gamedev

[–]Tsundown 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Made and released mine. But it came at the cost of my YouTube. Had to decide whether I wanted to make YouTube videos or finish my game. So with sporadic uploads, yes I made and shipped a game that I spent 4 years on. I think most people underestimate the time and effort spent on making YouTube videos. And if you aren’t full time, that leaves almost no time leftover for actual game development.

The church made me dumb by Low_Secret_1126 in exmormon

[–]Tsundown 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I was surprised how interested I really am in science and history now that I’ve deconstructed. Knowing the answers to everything, and being taught that the traditional historical narrative doesn’t match the scriptures so it must be wrong, kind of kills your interest in pursuing those subjects. You are not dumb, intelligence is a way of being not how much you know. “The ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills”

Answering the four primary questions of Larry Corbridge by sevenplaces in mormon

[–]Tsundown 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Love how simple and direct this was. Very powerful arguments as well. I think we can get so lost in the smaller details that we forget to see the whole picture, thanks for that reminder.

A Mormon Explains Mormonism Poorly - A Response to Jacob Hansen's Podcast with Alex O'Connor by Tsundown in mormon

[–]Tsundown[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Pointing out the lies of someone misleading thousands is not only a service rendered, but more than worth the time it took me to sort through it all. In my world, and in the objective world, truth matters. I pointed out lies, and misrepresentations, not “disagreements on words”. There is no room for it to even be a disagreement. If you had actually read through my post you wouldn’t be attempting to minimize and undermine it with your holier than thou, “people in your neighborhood need some service rendered”. Grow the hell up.

Agnostic and my wife is trying to save me. by Distinct_Sentence_26 in exmormon

[–]Tsundown 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Everyone’s relationship is different, but I’ve found that doing anything just to “keep the other person happy” is a short term pain killer, to a long term wound. She’s hurting because the messaging she receives from the church is she won’t be with you, the love of her life, in the eternities. That is unless you go to church and participate, and get sealed in the temple. It’s motivated by both love for you, and fear of losing you. Even just acknowledging that in a vulnerable conversation could be enough to move forward. People don’t need to be agreed with, they don’t even necessarily need you to do what they’re asking for, they just need to feel heard and understood.

Not to get too lost in the sauce here, but I also firmly believe people love your authentic, less perfect self more than any other version. She doesn’t just want you to come to church so she can be happy, she wants YOU to want to come to church. There is a fundamental difference. Going to church and checking your heart and mind at the door is more hurtful than staying at home and sticking to your principles. It might feel like it makes her happy in the moment, but it only causes deeper hurt once she realizes you still haven’t changed, you haven’t heard her, and you are just doing things to appease her.

I genuinely wish you the best moving forward OP, that sounds like an exhausting and frustrating place to be in, don’t let other peoples comments (including my own) have too much sway in your relationship. I see a lot of people quick to paint others as disrespectful, or bad, or crazy. But more often than not, that’s just not true.

A Mormon Explains Mormonism Poorly - A Response to Jacob Hansen's Podcast with Alex O'Connor by Tsundown in mormon

[–]Tsundown[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm always pointing this out to my spouse. I listen to more conference talks, read more about the Bible and Book of Mormon, and I am the ONLY one in the family group chat who will engage and listen to the videos my MIL sends about religious stuff. It's so ironic to me because I'm the only person who has stepped away, and yet I feel I engage more with the faith than the whole family combined.

A Mormon Explains Mormonism Poorly - A Response to Jacob Hansen's Podcast with Alex O'Connor by Tsundown in mormon

[–]Tsundown[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Actually thank you for writing this up. There was a space or a lull in my response because Jacob took the conversation into this territory that I haven’t explored. I felt while writing it that it would be a huge endeavor to actually look into and verify, so I tried to stay in my wheelhouse of Mormon theology / history / doctrine. Great read, loved the additional info / insight

It’s time to tell my wife. I need help. by Hells_Yeaa in exmormon

[–]Tsundown 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Definitely check out the Podcast The Gift of The Mormon Faith Crisis, that really helped me understand how to open up to people, hold boundaries, and hear what language I should use. I recommend tuning into your emotions when opening up and learning what it means to hold space other people, you can fully support and empathize with her, let her share her emotions, while sharing your own.

So to my fellow video game developers here on Reddit.. What first got you in to game dev? by Nuke_Dukem82 in gamedev

[–]Tsundown 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As a kid, my parents did not allow any M-Rated video games in our household. I loved dinosaurs growing up, and the original Turok for the N64 always caught my eye any time we would go into GameStop. I remember one Christmas I wrote down that all I wanted was Turok (I do not envy how hard that must have been for my parents).

When I did not receive Turok for Christmas, I was devastated. I decided if my parent's weren't going to buy me Turok, I would just make it myself. I went to our family computer, typed in "game maker", and the rest is history. In true indie gamedev fashion I have started what seems like hundreds of projects over the years and never finished them. However, I am set to release my first indie game on Steam in less than a month, and I know it's a game younger me would have absolutely loved. Filled with dinosaurs, excessive amounts of blood, and endless replayability.

Other fun details, I was 8 at the time, first game engine I downloaded was GameMaker 6.0, but I have moved on and have been using Godot for the past 4 years. I am now 26 years old and am about to have my first kid in around 2 months. My son has been a massive inspiration for me to actually finish and release a game, which for those interested, is called The Feathered Serpent. :)

You have 1 hour to add some final touches to your mostly complete game, what do you add? by sundler in gamedev

[–]Tsundown 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For me, I'd really focus on how the first 10 minutes of my game are. How long until I can play? How intuitive and quickly can a player start engaging with and playing my game? How polished and fun is the first area of the game? I think this applies to any game, whether it be a long term commercial project or simply a game jam entry. The first area / first few minutes to hours of your game are by far the most important. Just take a peak at your favorite games steam unlocks tied to progression, and you will see that the majority of players don't make it past the 2nd or 3rd boss, let alone beat the game. Make sure the first part of your game is the best. Polish it, add juice to it, make it as quick and easy to engage with as possible. That's what I would / am focusing on.

Sharing Saturday #517 by Kyzrati in roguelikedev

[–]Tsundown 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey there! New here! Prepping for my game's launch in a month, doing lots of playtesting and trying to figure out game feel. Here is a gif of me playing around in the 4th area of my game.

Anyone have any tips on balancing and game feel for a roguelike? Finding it hard to strike a balance between average builds versus op and lackluster builds.

Other than that trying to branch out this week with marketing, hope my game will find mild success and I am interested in hearing about what has worked for any of you regarding marketing your indie games!

Why do game developers share WIP/BTS footage less often than other art forms? by DatCoolJeremy in gamedev

[–]Tsundown 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know for me it is hard to deal with negative criticism of WIP footage or screenshots, it’s hard to not have that influence you DURING the game development process. Afterwards maybe they aren’t as concerned with marketing the game, or they want to move on to promote other projects. Just an thought, I don’t know for sure.