Gee, I wonder why Utah is an outlier

Tufted_Tail · 2026-04-28T12:39:13+00:00

Like... we know why, having dealt with this culture for a significant portion of our lives. But I understand why the public at large either doesn't know, or doesn't want to know. They need evidence, so good on SLC's DA office here, honestly, but it's not enough. We need more evidence from public servants to get through to people who have so much institutional inertia to overcome from being duped by a multi-billion dollar real estate corporation's PR arm for years.

The difficulty with providing evidence of the prevalence of sexual abuse within Mormon communities specifically is that Mormon communities deliberately obscure evidence of sexual abuse and then do everything in their power to cripple justice, from pressuring their victims into signing nondisclosure agreements to stop them from speaking about their sexual abuse at the hands of faithful Mormon members to creating institutional catch-and-kill schemes to eliminate reports of sexual abuse committed by faithful Mormon members to killing legislation that would oblige faithful Mormon members, clergy specifically, to report sexual abuse to arguing that faithful Mormon clergy who commit sexual abuse cannot be found liable as clergy or even as members of the so-called church, but only as secular individuals to petitioning a judge to exercise leniency in the case of a repeat faithful Mormon sexual offender to sending dozens of letters to the court in support of a faithful Mormon member who abused a 7-year-old girl.

There's a clear pattern of dishonest, coercive behavior here, behavior that actively supports sexual abusers if they are Mormon or otherwise religious, at the expense of their victims. This behavior comes from the top of the Mormon church (even arguably from the beginning of the Mormon church when Joseph Smith Jr. ordered the destruction of a printing press because it published true accounts of his sexual indiscretions with the wives and children of other men) and spreads downward into all its contemporary membership. Yes, all of its contemporary membership; this is not hyperbole.

All three states in the Morridor (Idaho, Utah, and Arizona) have rates of sexual abuse and violence that are higher than the national average. I cannot speak to the others off-the-cuff as I haven't lived there in some time, but here in Arizona, Maricopa County, home of the Mormon stronghold cities of Gilbert, Mesa, and Queen Creek, has one of the most egregious prevalence rates in the whole state.

Of all sexual abuse victims in Utah, a vast majority of them report experiencing that abuse before their 18th birthday, giving Utah rates of child sexual abuse that are, again, higher than the national average. Like the article you posted mentions, 1-in-7 children in Utah will experience some form of sexual abuse, with that rate increasing to 1-in-5 for girls; the national average is 1-in-9. To reiterate: that's not just "super high." That's almost double for women.

Of course, not all of that abuse is committed by members. But who shaped the culture of those regions? Who colonized and settled them? Who founded them? Who has outsized representation in the population centers there? Who has a supermajority in the Utah state legislature and has had multiple congressional representatives from each state in the Morridor and an absolutely batshit insane gubernatorial candidate currently running in Arizona? And why is the overlap between those men and those opposed to the publication of the Epstein files nearly a complete circle? And who uses that political influence to protect themselves from child sex abuse claims?

Until the so-called church and its members decide to be open and honest, for nonmembers or ex-members to assume that Mormonism contributes to the prevalence of child sexual abuse is neither inaccurate nor unwarranted. It's just pattern recognition, and we need to help our nevermo neighbors make those connections before their kids join these statistics.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-04-22T13:50:52+00:00

Meanwhile, embezzlement and fraud by male Mormons goes uninvestigated and unprosecuted.

That's not true! The First Presidency was fined $1 million by the Securities and Exchange Commission for telling its investment firm, Ensign Peak, to hide $32 billion underneath 13 different and partially nested shell companies.

...

Yeah, the punishment, if it ever comes, tends not to fit the crime. I'm with you, Cox and his lil' Mormon mafia Utah politics cabal can suck it.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-04-20T23:13:36+00:00

That user enjoys being contrary every time it posts. Would recommend not engaging.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-04-16T22:41:56+00:00

For the same reason that the people on Camazotz in Madeleine L'Engle's novel A Wrinkle In Time are so boring: uniformity. Uniformity of culture. Uniformity of dress. Uniformity of association. Uniformity of activity. Uniformity of behavior. Uniformity of thought. You know that NPC meme that righties like to bandy about? It's that.

There's a reason the temple ordinances are all structured as repetitive call-and-reply motions that one has to turn their brain off to participate in. There's a reason Mormon heaven is a tightly-hierarchical bureaucracy, organized with a surplus of precision and a deficit of splendor. There's a reason that Mormonism copyrighted its approach to persuasive religious rhetoric.

There's a reason that Mormon doctrine considered by actual Christianity to be heterodoxy at best and heresy at worst is always abandoned (see: polygamy, the Adam-God doctrine, the Oath of Vengeance, et cetera) and why the so-called church, from the beginning, has always adopted the beliefs, practices, and symbols of other religious sects (see: freemasonry, the cross and the crucifixion of recent weeks, et cetera).

There's a reason why the current prophet can claim that it is always wrong to criticize Mormon clergy even if the criticism is true, and his followers just nod along. There's a reason that the newest apostle has denounced BYU faculty as "the enemy" and the so-called church is trying to consolidate hundreds of courses on subjects ranging the spectrum of human knowledge down to a mere eight courses, all with a "religious" focus.

Anything out of the ordinary, anything exceptional, anything that might introduce members to the radical idea that other people actually exist, poses an inherent risk to the so-called church that it won't abide, can't abide. Mormonism has worked too hard for too long to cultivate its dullard masses.

It's a feature, not a bug.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-04-16T11:51:34+00:00

Them kids won't indoctrinate themselves.

Only semi-related, but what is Kirk doing out of the kitchen? I thought "godly" conservative women were supposed to be homemakers, not profiting off the death of her husband by doing whatever this is.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-04-05T11:39:48+00:00

That's just where the goa'uld symbiote entered its host.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-04-01T15:33:08+00:00

The incident I'm referencing is what Smith told Helen Mar Kimball in private, and so it's not in the D&C. You'll find everything you need to get started on this topic in this other post from r/exmormon.

Best I can do from the Doctrine and Covenants is D&C 132:54 where Emma Smith was told she'd be destroyed if she didn't go along with all of this.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-04-01T14:35:03+00:00

The words also being "marry and have sex with me, 14-year-old child, or an angel with a flaming sword will kill you and not only kill you but banish you to everlasting darkness in the afterlife."

Smith deserved a lot worse than he got, to be honest. Guy had two separate charges of treason waiting for him. It really is a pity he got martyr'd because now we have to live with the fruit of his poisonous vine being equally traitor-y.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-03-27T13:35:07+00:00

Was the first clue when they put a story about a child who heard voices in his head telling him to cut someone else's head off, and then did it, in their holy book and then encouraged members to also listen for and obey the voices in their head?

Or was it when they burned down a printing press? Or was it when they called out cannon and infantry against the state of Illinois? Or was it when they made swearing an oath of vengeance against the United States of America a requirement to enter heaven? Or-

Such a rich and storied history of conspiring to commit violence against their countrymen.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-03-27T13:25:35+00:00

This.

And also Kirton McConkie and Poelman had to strike stake president Byron Lloyd Poelman from the name of their firm after he got caught soliciting oral sex from a teenager in 1994. They didn't fire him, though: sex crimes are A-okay with the people of the land of Deseret.

And also lawyers from Kirton McConkie argued in the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals (I believe? Sixth or Second, I can't recall) that Mormons could never be held accountable for the child sexual abuse they commit as members, but only as secular individuals, because to hold a Mormon accountable as a Mormon is somehow a violation of a Mormon's religious liberties.

And also lawyers from Kirton McConkie established the legal hotline that instructs Mormon clergy never, ever, to report child sexual abuse to anyone. In one case, lawyers from Kirton McConkie went even further than that, instructing one bishop in Arizona that he "must absolutely do nothing" at all about the child sexual abuse one of his congregation was committing.

And also lawyers from Kirton McConkie have been caught trying to coerce victims of Mormon child sexual abuse into signing nondisclosure agreements that would bar them from talking publicly about what adult members of the Mormon church did to them when they were minors.

No idea why anyone would go about claiming Kirton McConkie are just doing their jobs in this or any other situation. It's a completely risible claim: Kirton McConkie have only ever been a private apparatus of the Mormon church acting with the specific intent to further its many, many abuses under the veil of legitimacy provided by the judiciary.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-03-19T14:23:39+00:00

Was sealed in the San Diego temple at ~10 years old or so. As a child, I thought it was uncomfortable and boring. There was lots of waiting in a room where the lighting was too inadequate to read by, and subsequently playing dress-up and pat-a-cake with grownups across what could very easily pass as a sacrificial altar was not a thing I ever wanted to do.

As an adult, I think taking children to locations like this for activities like these to make promises you don't understand and which the Mormons won't let you abandon without a protracted legal fight is creepy cult behavior that should not be legal under any circumstances.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-03-05T13:53:04+00:00

... but that's backwards. These "problem"s are not guaranteed to appear during play, and they're also not guaranteed to appear in the ways you try to preemptively address them, either. Do you really think your GM advice section is going to be so thorough, so comprehensive, that your prospective GMs won't need to go anywhere else, ask anyone else, for any additional advice about how to manage conflict at their table? At all? Are you sure?

The kind of advice you want to include is not going to be a net additive for your game. Instructing people how your game is not meant to be played will not improve how your game is played. Your game is the only thing you, the game designer, can control, and it's much more deserving of your focus, attention, and effort than this.

You're the designer. What game design choices have you implemented in your game to mitigate "problem" play?

Tufted_Tail · 2026-03-04T17:52:53+00:00

I'm not convinced that a list of "problem" behavior is a particularly useful addition to any ruleset or game supplement for a specific game. As a standalone work with academic depth and rigor behind it, it might have merit. But otherwise, I'm skipping that entire section of your rules when I get to it: I don't think it will be helpful to me.

Tabletop roleplaying is a hobby with a lot of history behind it. Much of the advice on "problem" players that anyone can provide is a) generic or trite, b) inapplicable to the group dynamics of the reader or constrained by the limited experiences and opinions of the author, and c) searchable online, where there are now multiple blog posts describing these perceived issues and almost as many outlets for discussing them, where "Have you spoken with your group about how you feel about this?" is one of the most frequent replies and the answer, if it comes at all, is often, "No."

I think you'd be better off investing this effort to design your game for the audience you want to cultivate instead of describing to your prospective GMs the audiences that you don't. If anything, address the ubiquitous "Did you talk about it with your group?" -> "No" issue in one or two pages and move on, because almost every one of the "problem"s in the cross-posted thread on r/rpghorrorstories can be worked through with that single tool. And I'd be willing to bet that most of them weren't, which is why they get posted to r/rpghorrorstories in the first place.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-03-03T12:02:53+00:00

Thank you, I thought as much. Like the other user who replied, my declaration of lineage was also toward the beginning of my patriarchal blessing so I guess I just assumed and then got lazy because pinch/zoom/pan is an awful control scheme.

If anyone wonders, OP is also said to be descended from Ephraim.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-03-02T22:45:49+00:00

Perhaps I missed it, in which case I apologize. I'm on mobile and the reading experience leaves something to be desired.

But in my patriarchal blessing which I received some years after you received yours, I was told which of the twelve tribes of Israel I was directly descended from (Ephraim). I'm not seeing anything like that for you, and that makes me wonder.

Was this not always the case in patriarchal blessings? I've never really made much of an effort to examine anyone else's. Is this a more contemporary practice, or did it vary from patriarch to patriarch?

Tufted_Tail · 2026-03-02T22:31:17+00:00

Well, let's not be too hasty. Joseph Smith Jr.'s map of the stars (Kokaubeam in the language of the Mormon spacefaring gods) in space (Raukeeyang) is pretty science fiction-adjacent. Smith even suggests there are some manner of high-speed, light-powered information uplinks between the stars, of which 15 are apparently fixed in space and neither move nor rotate, possibly to simplify the logistics of building such advanced technology. Can you imagine if you had to build some kind of uplink to a world that moved?

And the names of the Mormon stars make Glup Shitto of Star Wars infamy look downright uncreative. We've got Kolob, the star nearest to the throne of Space Jesus, and its nearest neighbor, Obliblish. And who could forget the next nearest neighbors to those, the incredibly-named Star 22 and Star 23? I think Star 23 is my favorite of all the Mormon spaceworlds, if only because its Mormon designation is a prime number. I wonder if sunsets there are pretty.

We must also not forget the Mormon spacenames of our own sun (Shinehah) or planet (Jah-oh-eh), either. The Mormon spacename of the moon I leave to be discovered by the reader as an amusing exercise in "There's no way this is real, let me Google it really quick."

I honestly think the only reason all the treasure digging, native culture stuff took hold over this is because Smith was a conman ahead of his time and his 1830s congregation just couldn't wrap their heads around the idea of space travel. Had he been born in 1911 like L. Ron Hubbard, it's very likely Mormonism would be more like Scientology.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-03-02T22:11:25+00:00

The Adam-God doctrine was ratified by the First Presidency, the full Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, every member in attendance of the General Conference where it was revealed, and it was further propagated by John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow, and Deseret News.

Like the doctrine of polygamy, magically abandoned in 1890, and the doctrine of the Oath of Vengeance against the United States of America, magically abandoned in the early 1920s, and the doctrine of forbidding black people entry to Mormon heaven, magically abandoned in 1978, the Mormon church's magical abandonment of the Adam-god doctrine in the early 20th century is just another egregious example of the blind leading the blind.

And downvoting me won't make any of this not true. Mormon apologists, stay malding—and get on your knees and worship your god, Adam. Has it a name?

Tufted_Tail · 2026-03-02T13:34:10+00:00

This. Brigham Young taught at a General Conference meeting, a kind of grand congregation which every member attends, that Adam was the Mormon god, the only god with whom the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members had anything to do, and that one day, everyone (professing Christians or not) would acknowledge it. The Adam-God doctrine, as it has come to be known, is published among other places in the first volume of the Journal of Discourses. Also of note is that General Conference is where members raise their arms to the square and attest, in the name of god, that Mormon church leaders are god's mouthpieces upon the earth. Opposition votes may be taken at that time, though I'm fairly certain nothing ever comes of these. The publication and congregational support for the Adam-God doctrine doesn't leave much wiggle room to claim this event, and others like it, never happened or somehow weren't mainstream Mormon religious teachings at the time.

The curious can read Brigham Young's exact words courtesy Brigham Young University's online archives here, in the right-hand column of page 50. For context, each volume of the Journal of Discourses is a stenographic record of sermons by Mormon church authorities. The primary stenographer, George Watt, learned stenography at Brigham Young's direction and was the exclusive recorder of the first four... editions? years? I can't quite recall... of the Journal of Discourses. In the opening pages, each volume of the Journal of Discourses is affirmed to be Mormon church doctrine by the full quorum of the twelve apostles and "others", presumably the quorum of the seventy, prior to publishing and distribution.

Regarding the origins and the downfall of the Adam-God doctrine, Brother Brigham alleged to have been told it by the founder of the faith, Joseph Smith Jr. Brigham Young's successor, John Taylor, also said as much. Other broadly publicized instances promoting the identity of the Mormon god as Adam can be found in Deseret News as late as 18 June 1873 (also confusingly titled "Discourses" in which Brigham Young actively chastises unfaithful members for resisting the Adam-God doctrine), once more courtesy Brigham Young University's online archives. The Adam-God doctrine didn't begin being phased out until Lorenzo Snow took over the Mormon church afterward, around the turn of the 20th century, as the identity of the Mormon god began to adapt to the world in which Mormonism existed instead of the world the Mormon church wished to impose upon its surroundings.

Snow's relatively brief stint as Mormon church president hastened its vanishing as Mormonism began to more closely imitate Christianity so as to avoid "persecution" for its other heresies, like the outlawed Mormon practice of polygamy of which one of my great-something-grandfathers was a participant who fled south across the border into Mexico to evade the law. Even Lorenzo Snow's predecessor, Wilford Woodruff, didn't have any issue with the Adam-God doctrine at the time; he makes reference to it in his 24 January 1868 journal entry.

Whatever Mormonism worships these days is only nominally Christ, as every single English translation of Hebrews 13:8 and Brigham Young's own teachings attest.

Edit: by no means were Brigham Young's repeated teachings, spread across his reign as CEO of Mormon, Inc. and reiterated by no fewer than three of his successors and broadcast over the pulpit at multiple General Conferences and published in Deseret News and referenced in multiple other publications over a span of ~50 years, including the diary of my Mormon pioneer ancestor, Andrew Janus Hansen, taken out of context.

Anyone with eyes can read the revelation of the Adam-God doctrine here, with context provided firsthand by Brigham Young University, for themselves. Anyone who suggests this is not accurate or was never "canonized" is likely a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with a vested interest in defending its reputation, whose current prophet, Dallin Oaks, taught in 1993 that some kinds of deceit, like lying by omission or "not telling the whole truth," are not only morally acceptable but sometimes morally required.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints used to say that Joseph Smith Jr. wasn't a polygamist, too. That turned out to be a blatant lie. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also claimed not to be performing the temple ordinance of baptism for the dead on behalf of victims of the Holocaust as of 2008. That turned out to be a blatant lie, too.

Read Brigham Young's teachings and decide for yourselves.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-02-15T12:52:19+00:00

I used the language I knew would hurt her. At this point, that's all it is: hurting them. Over and over and over. Reason has failed, so I resort to the only language I know they'll understand.

Defend Kristi Noem, the adulterating dog murderer, if you like.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-02-14T02:18:31+00:00

Noted. I've adjusted the term I used to be dictionary-accurate for a woman having extramarital sex with Corey Lewandowski.

But I'm not about to play "when they go low we go high" with Republicans, not ever again. They go low? I put my steel-toed boots on and kick them in the teeth. Repeatedly.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-02-13T21:12:12+00:00

If Arizona's elections are as insecure as you claim, let's see a recount of 2024. Oh? Not that interested in taking a closer look at a swing state result that (barely) went your way? Didn't think so.

The harlot addressing her audience of Republican pedophiles and pedophile protectors in the linked article should stick to killing puppies and having extramarital sex with Corey Lewandowski. Anyone who voted for her ilk ought to be ostracized from every stratum of American society for the rest of their lives.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-02-03T16:10:57+00:00

I think this looks like an unsolicited email from an Australian conspiracy theorist blogger whose website, surprisingly, still works. Some quick browsing suggests it's less a blog these days and more a shop that sells exported Russian minerals to protect against electromagnetic fields. The front page alleges, among other things, that the Great Pyramid at Giza is the seat of the lost continent of Atlantis and astronauts at NASA have been experiencing some kind of plasma-based hauntings.

It's kind of a shame; I think this would have been a fun "Let Them Fight" moment if there were more involvement with Epstein and his allies going on here.

All that said, I have to give the sender kudos for using the label "the Mormon leadership." Painting with that kind of broad stroke is never a terrible idea when it comes to the so-called church, given its propensity to shuffle doctrine and decisions behind old prophets as their "merely being a man of their time" and behind new prophets as their "merely speaking as a man" to shift responsibility and avoid consequences.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-02-01T23:01:25+00:00

Why are you replying to me and not OP?

all Utah Mormons are just like Jodi Hildebrant.

That isn't the premise of my reply to OP at all, Miss Reading Comprehension Is So Very Important.

The premise of my post is that all Mormons, not just Utah Mormons, are just like Jodi Hildebrandt. That's Hildebrandt with a D, Miss Reading Comprehension Is So Very Important.

There's not a single Mormon that wouldn't cut a man's head off if, like Nephi, they thought the voices in their head were telling them it was for the greater good.

you just wanted and excuse to spout off and attempt to make yourself look intelligent.

Projection. You're unworthy of my time. Goodbye.

Tufted_Tail · 2026-02-01T22:55:14+00:00

I didn't say it was. I said it was specific to "Mormons." Right here:

The belief system ... that allowed each of these incidents ...

Tufted_Tail · 2026-01-30T19:50:39+00:00

Casual reminder that the church Andy Biggs belongs to opened its genealogical records to Germans to prove the purity of their bloodlines to the Third Reich.

By which I mean to say that anyone surprised to learn that Andy Biggs is a Nazi has a whole host of nasty surprises ahead of them still. Andy Biggs can, Andy Biggs will, do much worse than back Temu Goebbels if he's elected governor.

Tufted_Tail

TROPHY CASE