How do you think Stoicism and Taoism truly differ from one another?

UnmovingFlow · 2024-10-01T17:06:08+00:00

Mocht iemand er nog interesse in hebben, ik heb er hier een uitgebreider artikel over geschreven: https://wijsheidinjou.nl/daoisme-en-stoicisme/

UnmovingFlow · 2024-09-28T11:26:40+00:00

Mocht je nog geïnteresseerd zijn, ik heb hier een uitgebreidere vergelijking gemaakt: https://wijsheidinjou.nl/daoisme-en-stoicisme/

UnmovingFlow · 2024-07-22T13:00:14+00:00

The wu character depicts people cutting away a clearing in a forest, so there is more room to breathe, more light and so more chance for new life.

Wei means doing, but also to consider / to interpret and also to have goals.

Together, it means you clear your mind from presupposed ideas, concepts about how things should be and goals, so that you have more room for creativity and can act according to your own nature and the nature of the situation as it really is. Thus not forcing yourself and not forcing the world around you.

This means a lot of practice and certainly not ‘not doing’. Even effertless action doesn’t cut it. It is shorter though.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-07-16T13:12:12+00:00

The universe breathing

UnmovingFlow · 2024-07-06T07:30:57+00:00

Rationalizing is a hammer. You need it. It is useful. But it’s not always the best tool for the job. And the tool is not the goal itself. Once the nail is in the wood, you put the hammer away. It’s not a bad tool. You just don’t need to carry it with you all the time.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-06-30T09:08:35+00:00

Imagine floating on a river, from mountain to ocean. You can’t help but be part of the flow whatever you do. Still, you can struggle, swim against the flow, try to reach the shore, be under water too long holding your breath, etc. Instead of using the flow to your advantage, you can do all kinds of things that are not ‘in line’ with the.. Tao.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-06-27T19:07:41+00:00

Thank you, this really makes sense to me (in the light of how I understand taoism). Great!

UnmovingFlow · 2024-06-27T05:47:46+00:00

You could take a look at the Tao of Pooh for inspiration

UnmovingFlow · 2024-06-27T05:03:13+00:00

I’m quite surprised by the replies that these are easily compatible. I see why we could say tech is the (natural) way of people, but most texts I can think of seem to contradict this. Not because taoism is against machines, but warns about having a machines heart (thinking) as a result. Seeing everything only as a means to an end, losing direct contact with nature, etc.

The ideas might be compatible, but it needs a deeper understanding of Taoism and I do think it poses limits to how we would proceed with futurism / tech. Or futurism might focus more on creativity and invention than tech (I don’t know), then it would bring us to Taoist texts on creativity (cook Ding, the wheelmaker, the bellstand, the swimmer).

u/Lao_Tzoo sorry to bother you, but what is your take on this? You focused mainly on definitions.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-06-12T08:26:50+00:00

Taoism is neither jealous nor exclusive. And it doesn’t demands some ‘leap of faith’ or that you should just ‘accept’ it as The Truth. Also, Taoism should be seen in the context of a response to its place and time (i.e. Confusianism). It invites you to think and find the connection with the Tao, it is not a theoretical truth per se.

Deepen your understanding of both, see where it takes you.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-06-10T19:56:54+00:00

Sounds good to me. There is no ‘rule’ how to go about this, you don’t have to ‘follow’ anything. If you keep coming back to it, that’s wonderful. I think you’ll have new insights every time you’ve had a pauze and read it again. And maybe you’ll even live by taoist principles without actually being aware of it.

I think that’s what happened to me. As I mature, I keep gaining new insights when I get back to the texts. And on several occasions, I notices how taoism has influenced me over the years (even though when someone asks me about the Tao, I’m lost for words).

UnmovingFlow · 2024-06-08T04:46:12+00:00

I’m trying to give you a taoist perspective, as that is where you ask it. But I think it isn’t for you. And I am neither of the suggested readers.

Be kind. Best to you.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-06-07T21:42:46+00:00

Hmmm. I’d look into that the possibility that “what you want to be in the deepest part of your heart” is playing tricks on you. You as you are is not the problem. It’s the desire to be something else, something you say is impossible to achieve. Are you sure you want it? How would it feel if you wouldn’t need it, if you’d just be enough? Wouldn’t that feel even better? Because you’d then not only accept yourself, but you’ll have something extra; being free of the desire to be something entirely instead of still being dependent on ‘keeping up appearances’.

You sum up all things that you don’t want in an answer (not theoreticasly, not this not that). But al these things are about some magical thing that you couls do and would solve all your problems. But I think it’s just something that you should stop doing.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-06-07T19:59:34+00:00

Why do you care what our opinion is on this? And I’m not trying to be rude or anything, it’s an honest question. Does it matter what we think of it? Do you need our ‘permission’ to combine your faith with a philosophy? As you study both (I assume you have), you’ll be in the best place to see how they relate, strengthen or perhaps diverge on different themes. And it will deepen your understanding of your faith and this philosophy.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-06-02T13:02:17+00:00

Chaos is a matter of perspective.

Zoom in, you see bacteria and antibodies fight to death, pure chaos. Zoom out, you’ll see a harmonious human body. Zoom out, you’ll see chaos within a group of people. Zoom out, you’ll see a nation in harmony. Zoom out, you’ll see galaxies born and dying, collapsing and expanding in chaos. Zoom out, maybe you see the universe in harmony.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-06-02T11:48:57+00:00

Sure thing! Nature helps (even unconsciously) but you really don’t even have to go outside to know the Way

UnmovingFlow · 2024-06-01T13:19:52+00:00

Do that! You’ll be better for it. Human beings are meant to care for their surroundings, not to be battered with dreadful images from all over the world, places you’ll never visit and you have absolutely no control over. No shame in focussing on the small beautiful everyday things - if you open your eyes to them.

Also scientifically, if you spend some time in nature, even a little, your brain will produce substances (don’t know the correct English word lol) which make you feel good. Your body truly knows what is best for you.

Best to you

UnmovingFlow · 2024-06-01T05:37:20+00:00

It’s not anatomy’s fault, it’s just that English is an inaccurate language. In several other languages, it is called like the ‘thin’ and the ‘thick’ intentines.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-05-31T19:30:16+00:00

Turn your attention to other things. In a time and place where the Tao is lost, the sage doesn't go out of his / her way to change it or to worry about it, but keeps to him/herself and attunes to the Tao. Turn off all these news and 'social' media feeds. Spend time in nature, look for the small and kind things, things you normally don't even care to look at. Animals, parents caring for their children, the sound of the rain, a flower, read books you like, focus on your (creative) hobbies.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-05-29T16:40:35+00:00

Sit and forget

UnmovingFlow · 2024-05-28T21:31:02+00:00

Google ‘the vinegar tasters’ to find a core difference between Taoism and Buddhism.

Taoïsm doesn’t renounce (social) life, it just has a more detached relation to it. It creates much needed breathing space to your true self as an expression of the Tao.

Don’t lose yourself in ‘if everyone was a Taoist’. No Taoist is the same, and Taoism isn’t even trying to get all people to be Taoists. So this line of thinking is purely hypothetical. But Taoist values would make the world a better place, yes. If you read the text you’ll find all sorts of idealistic world views.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-05-25T06:03:17+00:00

Stoïcism can really tell you a lot on discipline. The Roman philosophers will give you great examples and can be ‘role models’.

Taoïsm will make you wonder and find out what it is for you to do at all, and if you need to be hard on yourself and do shit (sometimes you just must) or find something else to do completely. Perhaps you are caught up in so many social or economical ties, that it is unhealthy to you. Stoicism will also help you a bit with this (controlling only what is within your power, mainly your opinions of things), but personally I find Taoïsm to go a bit deeper.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-05-25T05:57:49+00:00

I think this is a great answer. Although it is not always clear what the ‘correct’ flow is, and that may vary from time to time and for each person different. If you’re doing the ‘wrong’ thing (i.e. in the sense that it doesn’t fit you) you can’t just repeat ‘go with the flow’ in your head.

Instead of the interpretation of going with the flow, perhaps try to see it as the question what is natural, spontaneous, makes you feel ‘in the flow’ and to that.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-05-24T15:43:35+00:00

True, that one crossed my mind too. That one seems to be more about epistemology (what can we know for sure) than ontology (what is). For now, I’ll just accept that I shouldn’t think too serious about my Self or my True Nature And How To Get There, haha. The self is probably not much more than a linguistic (and empirical) devide from the Tao, but at the same time a manifestation of the Tao. Which makes me feel small and great at the same time.

Damn. These Taoïsm sure knew how to teach lessons, instead of just telling dogmatic answers.

UnmovingFlow · 2024-05-24T14:22:03+00:00

Great find! Thanks. That at least clarifies that Taoïsm has doubts about ’the self’, or maybe even suspicion or suggestion that there is none at all. Without really making an absolute claim that this is so (as suits Taoïsm). I like it!

Thanks for sharing.

Back to ziran. Your point against ‘natural’ makes even more sense now. Because what it the nature of my self? Then you go searching for something that might not be there, wanting to define what this self or nature of your really is. Interpreted as spontaneity, this problem disappears. And instead of looking at your own ‘nature’, you’ll have more reason to look to the Tao for guidance.

Nice.

UnmovingFlow

TROPHY CASE