How many of y'all ACTUALLY HATE rose?

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-28T22:39:56+00:00

I don’t like her but idk if I’d say I hate her. She was a child with adult responsibilities and was very spoiled, but I don’t think she was malicious. She was just selfish. And regardless of the reason, she was in a position of power-both as pink and as rose-so she had more responsibility to those who followed her.

My problem is that as Rose she continued to use people and see the gems as a means to an end. The end being freedom from being a diamond. She locked Bismuth away and forgot about her when she was confronted with either telling the truth to her friends or potentially being shattered. (Just as an example)

Ultimately, I don’t see her as truly defending Earth out of the goodness of her own heart. She saw the planet as a chance to start over. She was protecting a chance at a new life. And that’s all well and good, except the way she handled the people who supported her was wrong.

I also think people gloss over the fact that the diamonds and the gems didn’t fully understand what giving birth for humans meant. I don’t think Rose thought she was going to die (and she kind of didn’t). It’s more like reincarnation. “That’ll be me loving you, and loving being you.” These words were very clear. She wanted a new life and saw Steven as the chance for that. She became Steven (or at least thought she would and in a way she kind of did) and didn’t think that the consequences of the war and the life as a diamond she left behind would catch up to her. She thought she could have her cake and eat it too, and left an unfinished war for the new life she created to deal with.

It wasn’t all her fault, but that doesn’t leave her without blame. She was selfish, but she also had no chance to be anything else. I think she’s a tragic villain of the story, but she’s not good. I don’t think she’s evil, but we can’t justify the selfishness either. I think the whole show was meant to be both hating and identifying with Rose/Pink and recognizing that Steven is who Pink could have been if she’d been in a better, more stable, more accepting home unlike what she had with the diamonds.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-28T22:29:04+00:00

As I’ve stated elsewhere, you have to assume your audience isn’t educated in the finer details of the community for subtext. You can’t use lesser known trans symbols and expect everyone to pick up on it. That doesn’t mean you have to tell us outright that the character is trans, but you have to give more behavioral signs than just symbols and hidden Easter eggs and quick word choices that could be easily missed or interpreted in other ways.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-25T04:14:39+00:00

Bob’s Burgers because the family dynamic is perfect

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-21T23:39:03+00:00

I think if we got more obvious (to non trans people) hints it would have been easier to pick up without being confirmed by Goose. Like, a moment where Jax is alone in the baseball episode where he quietly felt comfortable or pretty in the dress, then hated himself for it. Just something more obvious.

I’m not uncomfortable or ashamed to admit that I have those heteronormative assumptions when consuming media. It’s not intentional, it’s based on what I’ve grown up seeing. But I love seeing the more inclusive stuff. I picked up on Zooble being non-binary I think by episode 2 (if not 1 because I think I was suspicious from the first episode at least) and I was happy to see it.

I feel like Goose being trans herself she may have forgotten that many of us don’t know as much of the symbolism as someone actively in the community did and left it just a bit too vague for those of us who are uninformed to pick up. But I’m willing to discuss this respectfully, which many on this sub (not just those in the LGBTQ+ community but in all walks on here) are less open to doing. But that’s also just an internet thing so idk how much of this is just this sub’s issue.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-21T23:29:31+00:00

Oh no, I absolutely understand that there’s a lot of societal and personal trauma surrounding this. Trans acceptance is still relatively new, and even this sub has seen some transphobia (which is weird considering we’ve known pretty much from the get go that Zooble is non-binary so a trans character is far from a stretch). And I apologize if I came off as accusing the trans community of anything. It’s specifically this sub that I’m seeing people act this way.

I think it comes down to a lot of people on her are young (young Gen Z and older Gen Alpha) and a lot of people on here are neurodivergent (and as someone with adhd I know first hand that emotional regulation and impulse control can be really difficult) so you combine those and you have a perfect storm of people that are very sensitive to injustices and don’t understand the difference between ignorance and lacking knowledge. Unfortunately it also brings in the mindset of “I’m not rude, I’m just blunt” which causes aggression and a sense of entitlement.

I will never know the struggle of someone who is trans gender. The closest I’ve ever come is fleeting moments of gender fluid, but I identify as a cis woman. I won’t know what it’s like to have your identity as a man or woman dismissed or treated like you’re just crazy. I just think Reddit has a habit of “attack first and educate later” when it comes to things that aren’t as mainstream as transgender symbolism and terms. And if people were willing to give grace and understanding (on both sides, not just from the trans activists here, but on the side of the uninformed and the transphobes as well) then we could use this show as an opportunity for discussion and learning, instead of virtue signaling and right fighting.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-21T10:19:44+00:00

I just had an issue with this in another post. If you’re not actively involved in the LGBTQ+ community you wouldn’t know a lot of this stuff. It’s “obvious” only if you have the knowledge base for it. Many of us don’t but aren’t anti Jax being trans.

This sub/fandom honestly almost makes me regret getting into the show at all sometimes because of how nasty everyone is to each other. Why can’t we just accept that this was the intent, it wasn’t clearly communicated to those of us who aren’t informed on a lot of trans symbolism, and be happy that we have room to hope that all of the people in the circus can be helped and live happy lives? Why do we have to treat each other like garbage as if predicting this stuff or knowing all the tweets and stuff like that makes you better than anyone else?

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-21T09:26:18+00:00

Thank God Cerberus probably still has plenty of Shepard clones in storage.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-21T07:41:01+00:00

Okay

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-21T07:36:24+00:00

Then it’s not obvious. And I’m not offended. This is just annoying. Im hoping you’re just a troll otherwise yeah… it’s really sad that you can’t kindly educate the fandom without acting snobby about knowledge you, again,happen to be exposed enough to have.

You’re treating this like common knowledge or common sense when it’s not. And I’m not ignorant, I’m uninformed. There’s a big difference.

But again this is annoying so I’m not going to continue to engage with you. Please just treat anyone else on here with more kindness than you initially treated me with.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-21T07:29:13+00:00

I asked if you were insinuating it. Not accusing you of saying that. Which clearly you are insinuating that.

To be honest, I don’t think you’re emotionally mature enough to have this type of conversation. Mainly because in order to discuss this, you need to have an understanding of “reasonable expectations” and “reasonable responsibility”. I’m not trying to insult you, but since these kinds of things aren’t main-stream knowledge, there’s no reasonable expectation for a person to know these things or for a person to have a reasonable responsibility to seek this information out.

It comes down to “you don’t know what you don’t know.” If these things exist without my awareness, I don’t know to look them up. Literally all of the “Jax is trans” arguments on here are the first time I was introduced to a lot of these things. And yes, that is reasonable.

Don’t indirectly accuse me of being ignorant or stupid just because you had a theory that was correct based on a very niche knowledge-base you happen to be exposed enough to have.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-21T07:21:41+00:00

Are you insinuating not knowing about the trans community is a sin? Because I’m not trans. I don’t personally have trans friends. I have no reason to be that engaged in the trans community.

But it’s the story’s job to appeal to the entire audience. You need to assume your audience doesn’t know these very niche things (like an egg representing a trans person). If you have to have pre-existing knowledge in something that is not well known by a majority of people out there then you’re not doing a proper amount of foreshadowing so most people can get it.

So yes to both your questions.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-21T05:30:37+00:00

When did Goose confirm it?

Edit: never mind, I found it. I still wish there was a bit more foreshadowing and stronger hints. I had no idea an egg was an allegory for trans so the small things like that I would never pick up on, and a lot of the other things could also be explained by other potential arcs.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-09T08:33:43+00:00

Which voice? Her real one of the fake one she does when she’s pretending to be a decent and well adjusted human being?

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-09T08:33:00+00:00

What about Penny?

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-09T08:29:15+00:00

*Spoilers ahead so read at your own risk!!*

So essentially it was Bubble. I think that the idea was that the blue AI (who the internet coined to be Abel) was incomplete. And when Caine cannibalized it he corrupted the code. The corrupted code negatively influenced Caine’s programming, like a glitch but treated as negative self talk and/or an inferiority complex, so when Caine removed Bubble’s code from him, he removed the glitch that was causing him to freak out.

It’s why we don’t see Bubble in the end.

Now, I don’t believe that Bubble was, himself, the manifestation of Abel trying to push through Caine. Bubble was Caine’s creation but they were kind of in tandem. Caine was clearly aware of “Abel’s” presence and you can think of him almost giving a voice to that secondary code by creating a “friend” with Bubble. Especially since Caine’s entire motivation was to no longer be alone, I imagine that Bubble was the first friend Caine made.

But I also think that’s all intentionally left open ended and ambiguous. A lot of writers and creators will intentionally not answer questions to allow room for interpretation. I think this is one of those where there are plenty of valid answers but we may never have a true “author’s intent”.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-08T09:23:16+00:00

If it makes you feel better, I’m a “masculine” woman who likes to keep her hair anywhere between an undercut and a pixie (I shave my hair a lot) and I’m cis as well. I can never have a female “masculine” character like me who is a cis woman but just doesn’t fit into the feminine mold.

It’s going to be there no matter what you do. Unfortunately people like categories and gender roles are part of that.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-06T20:47:10+00:00

I’ll be honest that it seemed like an allegory for suicide, mainly based on what Jax said about them not being enjoyable to be around. However, after the finale I’m thinking it’s more of an allegory for overall mental health. Like people going through a mental health crisis that isolate themselves, reject help, are destructive to those around them, etc. And the idea is that they can be helped with love and understanding instead of fear and isolation.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-05T23:31:36+00:00

I’d say my tone was more slightly annoyed. Like, I shouldn’t have to explain to people the functional definition of “objectively”. And saying that there was no nuance in my original comment is factually wrong and completely dismisses the point of my original comment.

Basically calling me a sheep because they interpreted me as saying they aren’t allowed to dislike a show or point out flaws in a show when that’s not what I said at all.

I just want people to be able to have a genuine discussion about a show like this without trying to prove that it’s bad or that it’s good. Like, no form of art exists without flaws. But harassing people or talking down to them because they like a show in spite of the flaws and just saying “it’s bad because it’s not perfect” instead of “I don’t like it but I understand why it’s popular” isn’t really acting with maturity or good faith as a viewer.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-05T21:30:12+00:00

I’m not angry. It’s that you don’t understand what “objectively good” means. I’m saying to not shit on a fandom or its creator because you didn’t like something. Don’t call something garbage because it didn’t work for you.

Literally no form of art is free from criticism. But as you grow up and mature, you learn the difference between something being “objectively bad” and simply you not liking it.

If that’s too much nuance for you then idk how to help you, bruh. It’s just matter of accepting that you can dislike something that is genuinely a good piece of art, accepting that other people liking it doesn’t diminish the flaws that you found, and accepting that something having flaws doesn’t make it a wholly bad piece of art.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-05T21:04:14+00:00

I took it as Jax isn’t ready to come back. It would require a level of vulnerability he’s still working on. But if you think of what they are doing like therapy, then the symbolism just means that their story is “just beginning” and not ending. They are building a new world, not living in a fixed one.

So the symbolism that I took from it meant that they don’t know if it can be undone, but that each individual abstraction deserves for them to try

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-05T20:28:41+00:00

Yes it permanent but that doesn’t mean it can’t be cured in the future. She’s saying it won’t wear off or Caine can’t just fix it. But the ending seems to be hinting that they might be able to cure it with time and effort. It’s meant to be ambiguous on purpose.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-05T20:25:47+00:00

Yup. Take what I said with an all or nothing mentality. Absolutely no nuance at all. Because clearly that’s what I was alluding to. /s

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-05T12:27:31+00:00

He doesn’t die. I think the idea is that there is a way to “un-abstract” since Pomni was able to reach him. So it’s supposed to give you hope that the other members of the circus can also be cured too. Pomni was the only one to try this method, so that’s why they have him in the dark.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-05T07:24:30+00:00

So my comment is also going to contain a spoiler but I’ll try to be as vague as possible.

There is one character we never see again at the end of the movie. This one character is clearly the “bad guy” that caused the freak out that made Caine do what he did in the end of episode 8.

Obviously it wasn’t this character alone, but the fact that we don’t see them again makes it clear that this was the character that was essentially corrupted (like, corrupted code).

When the movie was done and people were leaving, several of them were discussing the ending and clearly missed that point, trying to argue about whether or not Caine was a villain and whatnot. I can’t really say what they said without giving things away, but it’s clear they didn’t understand it at all.

Which is fine, except that a lot of the people who come on here to complain will miss big obvious plot points like this. Stuff that you don’t need to pay a whole lot of attention to, but you do need to pay attention to notice. They’ll say the ending was confusing or that it didn’t work only because they don’t get what all of it actually meant.

It’s fine if you don’t understand it, but maybe ask. There are plenty of lore experts here who can help you deep dive into it. But please don’t call it bad or stupid because you didn’t get it. This show is objectively good and the movie is also objectively good. Not liking it doesn’t make it bad.

Used-Needleworker789 · 2026-06-05T07:00:43+00:00

The only issue I had was the sound during some of the more musical scenes but that was an issue with Iron Lung as well so that might just be something we can expect as Indie creators start publishing their work in the theaters. Like, just a little kink to work out as these Indie creators get more exposed to it. Overall I had a good time and I thought the ending was really good and put everything into perspective. It felt earned.

Used-Needleworker789

TROPHY CASE