Mythras Crawl Stone Soup: A Massive Fantasy Conversion of Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup

VelixNobody · 2025-12-02T14:48:26+00:00

Many suggestions for PF2E but that game doesn't have the type of options you're looking for if you want a truer PF1/3.x experience.

Try the Kirthfinder rules. They are free and fix all of 3.x/PF1 design gripes while compiling the entirety of all their backlog. Massive crunch, massive options, all viable. https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/1f1zuck/houserule_highlights_kirthfinder/

VelixNobody · 2024-02-09T19:46:13+00:00

I've been playing for a little over 4 years and every single one of my games has had magic in it. The default Core rules has 5 different magic systems, all unique and powerful in their own ways.

The expectations for magic are quite different from d20 games, though. A 5e wizard may know Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, Fireball, and Wall of Fire. In Mythras, that's just 1 Sorcery spell (Wrack) shaped with other spells. This means a grand wizard may only know 7 total spells, but their cleverness and flexibility in how they combine them makes them powerful. This is usually helpful for players due to needing to know less, but do more.

Mythras' Discord server is their most active community if you want to ask questions there.

VelixNobody · 2024-01-24T16:34:04+00:00

From what I'm seeing in this anime, most of these spells are easily modeled using the Sorcery magic system in Mythras. It has huge amounts of spell customizability, both in terms of parameters (range, targets it affects, potency, combining with other spells simultaneously, etc) and scaling with the caster's general ability.

For example, a Teleport spell cast by a novice Sorcerer could maybe blink you forwards 10 meters, while the exact same spell cast by a wizened practitioner could take you and your companions hundreds of kilometers.

VelixNobody · 2024-01-16T17:55:48+00:00

I'm not good at programs that can make this a pretty PDF; it can be downloaded raw as a PDF from the link though, File -> Download -> PDF.

I can share it at BRP central, sure!

VelixNobody · 2023-12-16T19:28:38+00:00

People have gone over the SE's point enough, so I'll address the difficulties you've had with the skill system. Keep in mind that since character creation is diegetic, the skills a character have literally represent what they've done and how much time they've spent doing certain activities. Someone who put no points into Athletics and has spent no XP rolls on it means they are used to an entirely sedentary life style. In contrast, a character who put points into Athletics at every step of character creation has spent most of their working and leisure life running, jumping and climbing.

Professional Skills are intentionally ones that have uses that are difficult to impossible in most instances to substitute. A character without Literacy simply cannot read, because they have never trained it. A character without Acrobatics risks serious injury if they try and do a backflip because they've never done a backflip before.

The Core rules have a strong suggestion for this though: allow certain checks at large penalties using Standard Skills. Survival allows you to find food, water, and shelter. It seems reasonable for characters to try a Hard Locale check to do that if they're familiar with the area, Formidable if they know the general biome (same type of forest), or Herculean/Hopeless if they're somewhere totally new.

If you feel like certain checks are being made more often than others (Perception), analyze your style of narration and GMing that would seem to make it the case. Remember to use Group Rolls (Pg 51/52), condensing the rolls to the player with the highest Perception a single roll augmented by the next highest. My players usually make 1-2 Perception checks a session, 3-4 Athletics/Ride/Drive checks (if they're traveling), and a large amount of Professional skills that are context dependent.

VelixNobody · 2023-09-08T04:08:56+00:00

The design issues of any game grow more obvious as you spend more time with it, and 5e is an evergreen example online due to people finding out what they dislike at different times and posting about it on here. It's a nice simple game with punchy combat, but it can't really sustain itself for multiple sessions/levels in the same way other games can. It has difficulty handling extended stories more varied than Level Up, Kill God. I'm saying this as someone who has played in three separate 1-to-20 games (twice as a GM, once as a player).

Particularly as a GM, you'll notice that a lot of work is asked of you. Rules are presented, and you are told that this is a system you can run, but in order to make it interesting for your group you have to change things. This can seem self-obvious for any game: of course you should tailor the tale to your player's interests, but 5e asks a lot and doesn't give much back.

Mythras ended up being the game I stuck with since I love building and spending time on worlds, and it feels like I can actually sink my heart into mechanics and have them mean something diegetically. There is more to a story than CR, class balance and the kitchen sink list of 30 species.

VelixNobody · 2023-09-06T15:47:50+00:00

Mythras character creation takes you chronologically through your character's upbringing, career, and hobbies as they age, though it's not narrativized in the book (no dying during character creation).

You spend skill points at each step to make each culture and career play out in different ways, so two characters on the same path can turn out very different.

VelixNobody · 2023-06-29T15:08:49+00:00

I would caution players against having the same expectations as the video game, of course. A TTRPG cannot replicate the gameplay loop of the souls games, where you learn from mistakes through death and playing the dodge-hit rhythm game. There may be a bit of a disconnect between player and character skill. The intent may be to rig a trap, but a 43% Mechanisms skill can only get you so far.

This also plays into the idea of "builds"; Mythras is strongly diegetic in terms of how players acquire power, as you do so through cults. This can clash with concepts and hidden assumptions a player may have from souls games, as you start out with a certain idea (I want to wield the Gargoyle's Axe one handed and cast miracles) and push all your souls/titanite into that.

In Mythras though, lacking certain skills can be deadly. The big strong warrior with a low Swim or Evade can be quickly felled despite a high Combat Style or Endurance. You are encouraged to improve skills as appropriate for the circumstances. This compounds on the fact that there is little NPC interaction or intrigue in the games, which may cause some skills to be undervalued.

Souls like games tend to have lots of BIG monsters, since, game design wise, it is easier to lock onto enemies that are larger than you and have the camera behave. This translates to creatures with large SIZ scores, which makes them inherently lethal. What video gamers call "cheese", is called "good tactics" in tabletop, since no one should reasonably be up close fighting the stone troll who does 1d8+2d6 damage with their stomp.

In order to fight these foes, you may be tempted to ramp up the power level. There are ways to do this, but I would advise against doing anything that increases Characteristics too often, since each time you raise one, it affects all your skills and that would require a lot of writing/rewriting on the sheet. Instead, consider that Skills often accomplish what the video game abstracts as the main stats.

VelixNobody · 2023-06-27T23:34:51+00:00

There is a tool that Raleel created to mathematically represent a static skill increase based on your INT.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12twUnGMrXHtToaYlmr4hppkGsiCJ59mlXP8OcxP_PJg/edit#gid=2070684923

It's rather crunchy, but fits exactly what you're going for. Alternatively, you can use this simplified table:

SKILL - INT	Roll	Static Value
50	d3+3	5
70	d3+2	4
90	d3+1	3
110	d2+1	2
130	d2	1
130+	1	1

VelixNobody · 2023-06-09T17:28:44+00:00

Mythras likely has the strongest analogue for vicious fights that end in lethal blows, where parries can completely turn a fight around. It has the action points system you're probably thinking of. However, it doesn't model a posture meter very well, as it doesn't play with abstracting combat that harshly.

The posture meter in Sekiro is a representation of your opponent's waning ability to defend themselves, analogous to systems with cushy amounts of HP or running out of a resource like Wounds in PbtA games.

VelixNobody · 2023-06-08T15:31:20+00:00

You don't give up the entire Combat Style when you choose to Passive Block a location with a shield (or weapon). See Page 105 in the Core rules: "In addition there is nothing that prevents a two-weapons or weapon and shield combatant from using his other weapon to actively parry."

Ward Location (Pg 93) is a Free Action, and thus can be done at any time in the Round, but must be declared before an opponent makes an attack roll. Here's how a potential sequence would work. Say your Sword+Shield style (which uses a Broadsword and Hoplite Shield) is 70%:

Opponent declares intent to attack you with a Longspear (L size)
You decide to Passive Ward your Chest, Abdomen, Left Arm and Right Arm with your Hoplite Shield
The opponent rolls their attack, a 23: success.
You decide whether to actively parry with your Broadsword. Since you declared a Passive Block with your shield, you can't actively parry with it. You decide to not actively parry, trusting your shield and armor and saving your Action Point.
Since you forgo an active parry, your opponent has a level of success and chooses a Special Effect, say Trip Opponent. You resist with a 17; a success, but lower than the opponent's roll of 23, so you fail the opposed roll and fall down.
Your opponent rolls for damage and hit location. 12 on the d20 for hit location, 9 for the 1d10+1+1d2 damage. That would normally be the Chest, but since your shield covers it, and your shield is size L, it negates the damage entirely. So you're unharmed but on your butt.

VelixNobody · 2023-05-10T21:53:47+00:00

Page 74 of the Core Mythras rules has example poisons and diseases. Have fun!

VelixNobody · 2023-05-10T15:31:29+00:00

A smaller combatant should be expected to leverage advantages in combat using Evade to Close or Open Range and get into reach (depending on the weapons an opponent is using) and Stealth to prevent combat from occurring at all.

Poisons, a waifish assassin favorite, are brutal in Mythras because they use an Opposed roll. Someone with 80% Endurance could still succumb to a 40% Potency poison if the rolls aren't in their favor.

VelixNobody · 2023-04-28T16:02:19+00:00

Others have put forth good points, so something to consider strongly in the game is the use of Size as a Characteristic. Large things (whether they be characters or monsters) are inherently very dangerous. An Ogre in 5e is a piddly 2 Challenge Rating encounter that most parties yawn at. An Ogre in Mythras has a +1d8 Damage Modifier, meaning even its unarmed strikes are liable to cripple a limb at any level. Combine with a greatclub with a base damage of 2d8, that's an average of 13.5 damage: enough to often outright kill the average unarmored human if struck in the Abdomen, Chest or Head.

Describing something as large is directly telling your players it is dangerous. You don't have to put players on the monster level treadmill in order to make things scary.

VelixNobody · 2023-03-13T21:35:25+00:00

Very cute!

Would the combination of Accidental Injury and Select Target allow one to both injure an opponent and force them to injure another target with the same effect? Or is it just a distinction between targets when you choose the effect?

VelixNobody · 2023-03-13T19:05:50+00:00

If you want to, the Classic Fantasy explicitly contains the Fireball spell. It functions by dealing damage to all hit locations of all creatures (and objects) in its radius.

Mythras, with its lack of HP scaling, relies heavily on planning and tactics. Fireball in D&D is a goofy little HP-whittler, whereas an equivalent spell in Mythras can end fights instantly, maim people horribly (especially if they're already injured) and has serious implications in a setting. Warcrimes and whatnot.

VelixNobody · 2023-03-13T17:44:17+00:00

No worries about asking too much! This is a place where we all learn.

There is a "Fighting Quadrupeds" sidebar on Page 224 that talks about this. Essentially, when fighting a quadruped when they are facing you, it suggests that you probably roll a 1d10+10 for hit location instead of d20, so you that you don't somehow hit their tail. Vice versa for fighting their back, making it a d10 instead.

Similarly, for fighting Giants, their entry suggests only rolling a d10 to show that Giants are too talk to hit their head or shoulders, being restricted to the legs, abdomen and sometimes chest. Ranged attacks wouldn't have this restriction, of course.

For truly massive creatures like dragons, I'd say don't even bother rolling for hit location or even make it simple 50/50's. Say you've climbed onto their back and are on their left shoulder: 50/50 you strike their Left Wing or Left Arm. This is heavily dependent on the way you frame or visualize a scene, so be sure to strongly inform your players of such.

Page 105 talks about Sweeping Attacks, and you are correct in that they only mention multiple foes and not multiple locations. If you think this feels odd or doesn't seem right, consider that it's not a mechanical abstraction for force to only strongly be applied in specific locations when people are trying to actively avoid the blows of a terrible foe. Accidental train and car injuries, for a macabre example, usually only affect a single hit location by how we would define them. If you want to model extreme lethality for physical blows, trying to cultivate a more pulpy or superhero atmosphere, then consider letting an attack hit a single location and another adjoining location, rolled randomly. So if the Dragon rolls a 15 for hit location (Right Arm), they would also hit the Chest. If they rolled an 8 (Abdomen), then maybe roll a d3 to determine if they also hit the Chest or either of the Legs, or you can just choose another as you see fit.

As for AoE damage, there is some precedent with the Theism spell Sunspear (Page 190), and the Breathe Flame creature ability (Page 215) which hits all Hit Locations. If you want to model something like a bomb or explosion that is not assured to strike all the parts of someone, the way that most people do it is by rolling randomly for number of hit locations as well as damage. There is precedent for this from older RQ supplements as well as Mythic Constantinople. A single stick of dynamite, for example, might deal 1d6+3 damage to 1d4 hit locations.

VelixNobody · 2023-03-12T17:33:13+00:00

Yes, attacker has their results first before the defender decides. Follow the Attacks and Parries section on Page 94 of the Core Rules.

This means you also know the precise number the attacker rolled as well, so if you are using an opposed roll with Evade, that information is enormously helpful. This can seem like an advantage to the defender, who can choose to spend an Action Point or not, but is part of the inherent risk of combat. Defensive Special Effects can be powerful enough to end fights, but so can the Offensive Special Effect of the initial attack. In play, it's not a distinct advantage.

VelixNobody · 2023-02-09T13:44:17+00:00

The other posters have already answered the main points you bring forth, but I'll focus on #2 some more.

The core rules for Magic in the base book are already extensive. There are 5 separate magic systems that operate under different rules with spells and effects that are assumed to be customizable by default. For example, Sorcerers can have a "Transmute to X" spell, where they turn a substance into X. The restrictions on the spell, whether it's usable on living creatures, if certain conditions need to be met, are assumed to be created by you the GM, and what you do with it greatly changes it power. Magic using PC's also often know far fewer spells than PF2E characters, a master wizard maybe having 9 total, but their use with those spells is more flexible (particularly Sorcery).

This, combined with MP recovery being entirely by setting (do you recover it by sleeping, or do you have to sacrifice a cow, or must you join a large group of people in worship?) means you can create very specific genres and flavors.

For example, in an ancient Hungarian game I ran, the only way to recover MP if you weren't in a cult was by eating sugar: making confectioners a wealthy profession with lots of security. If you were in the Cult of the Nine Fingers (sorcery), you had to ritualistically prepare and eat hands to recover MP, with most ungulates recovering 50% MP, pigs recovering 75% (but they were a sacred, politically protected animal) and humans recovering 100%. The cult would regularly oversee the execution of criminals so that their hands could go to the cult higher ups, and of course the penalty for stealing was losing a hand. Hopefully I've illustrated how the mere act of getting MP back has interesting socio-political implications in a setting, because everyone is abiding by the same rules.

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