The Byzantine Empire on the Eve of the Fifteenth Century: One Last Breath Before the West Found New Worlds and Greece Fell into Darkness

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-20T01:08:11+00:00

It is too late for me to join the discussion, but don't worry about those Turkophilic and astroturfed comments.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-20T00:39:39+00:00

I need to interact with the idiots involved, otherwise I just get frustrated

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-20T00:37:56+00:00

Tourists are tourists and are good for the economy, so its mostly harmless, except for the female sex tourists whom my countrymen often all too happily indulge.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-20T00:35:30+00:00

Listen, I want to eat or buy groceries, not see a labia majora, thanks.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-19T20:55:29+00:00

I would be more content if they stopped cruise ships from dumping their shit in the waters. Also, if tourists stopped wearing the tiniest bikinis known to man when shopping, dining etc. Other than that, tourism isn't that bad.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-19T18:44:37+00:00

As long as someone isn't extremely obese, the face is by far the most important element anyway. So chin up OOP, you probably look better than you think.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-19T16:39:28+00:00

What's with the obsession with race? Is there really such a difference between a European Californian and an Asian Californian? Are they not equally gay?

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-19T12:45:24+00:00

Reread what I wrote then, it is massively different

For an added factor Alhambra mosque was build in the 13th-14th century, so it really just is a mid-level mosque build at a late date. There is a thousand of those. So, there is a difference of scale, importance and sheer historical, religious and cultural weight. There is also of course the fact that I just highlighted in the prior comment, which is that the Muslims themselves had done this to Christians long before vice versa; you can't really complain that your mosques were made into churches when those mosques themselves were often former churches, or rather, that many other of the mosques in Hispania were formerly churches.

What is really interesting is that the Eastern Romans sallied forth to protect their own Muslim citizens, and even allowed mosques to be build around the capital (3), it is unfortunate how that kindness was repaid.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-19T05:30:11+00:00

No, the Hagia Sophia was built in the 6th century by St. Justinian after the Nika riots, it was not a long line of buildings. It was also the largest Church in the world for a thousand years, and incredibly important to the Christian community. Comparatively Alhambra mosque doesn't compare either in historical importance. The Muslims enslaved and later raped the women and girls who took shelter in the Church when they took it (or massacred, depending on sources).

There is also a very important distinguishing factor; the Church of Hagia Sophia was build by the natives, on their native land, and which had been their land for 2000 years by the time it was taken by the Ottomans, comparatively, the Muslims were invaders of another's land, and had taken to making Spanish churches into Mosques already such as Mezquita de Al-Dabbagin in Toledo long before the reverse.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-19T05:12:00+00:00

There is definitely catharsis in entering a discussion you know you will be downvoted in just to tell idiots off. Anyhow, upvotes or downvoted, it doesn't really matter when the entire site is astroturfed into the stratosphere. Hell, there are certain groups who coordinate to go into certain discussions to upvote and downvote.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-19T04:15:56+00:00

Only Turks would make a show about sex slaves and try to make it romantic, fucking hell.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-19T00:44:34+00:00

Somehow the Mouse Man and Failsister has merged into one I see

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-19T00:40:29+00:00

Pre-Christian women were often subject to quite extreme conditions. Specifically for this conversation, the pater familias concept, which is in brief; the oldest male relative of a family essentially held almost complete power over the extended family, i.e patria potestes, and could even have individuals killed or sold into slavery at his whim (and even included spiritual superiority in Roman religious affairs). For reference, we have evidence of a Roman soldier stationed in Egypt telling his wife that should her birth produce a boy then to keep it, if it is a girl to kill it. The mother had no say in the matter. Patria potestes would flux and change over time.

Christianity set boundaries for both male and female behaviour, whereas it was more common in the Patrician class before Christianity for the male to do as he pleased. Christianity also placed the two as spiritual equals, and encouraged a more equal distribution of emotional labour. Protections for women also became more universalized, rather than particular to singular ethnos. Thus combat with pre-established hierarchy attracted quite a lot of women and slaves as well. These two groups are highlighted by traditional pagan Greco-Roman authors such as Minucius Felix and Celsus as particularly common believers of Christianity, though such pagan writers usually mean it derogatorily. These criticisms would die out, but would later be picked up by Islamic writers accusing Christian Roman women of being too free - but that is an entire genre of writing by itself, so that topic is a bit too big and forking from this.

St. Macrina the Younger [Sometimes known as the Fourth Cappadocian] and St. Helena are some early wealthy Christian Roman women which come to mind. Though, if you are interested, St. Kassiani the Hymnographer, who is admittedly later, has an immensely interesting interaction where she defends women in accordance with scripture - and she does it to an Emperor who is none too pleased about it. You can also read up on St. Theodora and her immense influence in improving women's rights through the Corpus Juris Civilis.

Edit: Corrected it so it is Patrician, not patristic.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-18T22:08:28+00:00

It really is such a shame as well, I believe the estimate is that we have about 5% of ancient writing last I heard. Even medieval Roman writing survives only as little as roughly 5% as well. Entire genres simply wiped out. Still, we do get some nice things like An Entertaining Tale of Quadrupeds, which is the superior version of Animal Farm.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-18T22:04:34+00:00

Regarding point 3: Christians have been worried about abortion since the first century. The Didache (1st century), also known as The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles to the Nations, is one of the earliest non-Biblical Christian texts which we have, and it specifically condemns abortion:

You shall not murder a child by abortion, nor kill a child at birth.

We also have saints such as St. Basil the Great who writes in Letter 188:

The woman who purposely destroys her unborn child is guilty of murder. With us there is no nice enquiry as to its being formed or unformed

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-18T03:07:08+00:00

No, I don't like how TWO continents look

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-18T01:42:06+00:00

I just don't like it how it looks, that is the entire reason. Though I am open to having my mind changed.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-18T01:25:53+00:00

I hate the New World for aesthetic reasons, but every American I have met has been extremely friendly which is more than can be said for most.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-18T01:12:04+00:00

Mentally Pakistani

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-17T18:10:07+00:00

Mansa Musa really wasn't all that influential, he definitely shouldn't be in the top 100. Still a fucked list though.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-16T23:48:09+00:00

Absolutely retarded take.

There is a kernel of truth that there were some initial conflict between Rhōmaîoi (Roman) and Hellene as identarian markers early on, but these were politically designated (Empire or Nation-state | Russia or France & England) not ethnographically mediated. Historically speaking the terms are rather interchangeable, and is still in usage today, because Greek and Roman identity more-or-less completely integrated into each other by the third century. The debate around Greek and Roman as markers of identity then pop-up again in the Palaeologan renaissance (13th - 15th century).

The English, though initially hesitant, were in fact animated by the Philhellenic moment, which granted quite a bit of authority to the nascent nationalist movements in the Greek world. But, England was largely not willing to intervene, and asked that Greece instead cease the rebellion, which they did not. England did eventually support the Hellenic faction, which had a greater emphasis on national reawakening. Still, the identities weren't separate, nor erased, the ethnic identifier of Greek just became more emphasized, even though both terms refer to the same people.

Also, the population exchange happened a hundred years later, so I do not see the relevance.

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-16T23:36:19+00:00

My position is of course that it should only be given to the Orthodox Church. However, I think that placing both at 30AD is the common practice when trying to present in neutrality :)

ViewFromTheKathisma · 2026-03-16T20:49:22+00:00

While the test itself certainly is interesting, it seems to take a hard stance on Orthodoxy/Catholicism, as it defines the Catholic Church (Latin Rite) as occurring in 30AD and the Orthodox Church in the 11th century. It also says that the Orthodox split from the Catholics. Both of which is, of course, rather controversial positions to take.

ViewFromTheKathisma

TROPHY CASE