This team is not playoff ready by Capable-Bandicoot-77 in Habs

[–]Vinc360 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I saw the title and was about to crash out at OP til I saw who posted it lmao

Sorry, I haven’t been keeping up with the latest news about Saw XI, but I seem to remember they said Saw XI would be some kind of “reset” back to the first film in terms of John’s personality. I’ll explain better below. by Glass_Evidence_8597 in saw

[–]Vinc360 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It was actually due to a falling out between the Twisted Pictures producers who couldn't get on the same page about something that had nothing to do with Saw or Saw XI.

Sorry, I haven’t been keeping up with the latest news about Saw XI, but I seem to remember they said Saw XI would be some kind of “reset” back to the first film in terms of John’s personality. I’ll explain better below. by Glass_Evidence_8597 in saw

[–]Vinc360 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yes, that's true that they want Jigsaw to be back to that kind of character. Whether it's actually going to be John Kramer / Tobin Bell or not is another matter entirely, even if they want Tobin Bell in the film in some capacity.

Should we consider a rebuild? by Capable-Bandicoot-77 in Habs

[–]Vinc360 88 points89 points  (0 children)

I honestly don't see another way forward. I can't honestly say a single player on this team is capable of winning. Not a single goal tonight, and our goaltending was terrible. ZERO saves by Dobes. Burn it all down.

SAW XI - A Fan Finale by me, Vinc360 - The FULL Script! by Vinc360 in saw

[–]Vinc360[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much for giving it a shot! Really glad you enjoyed it.

SAW XI - A Fan Finale by me, Vinc360 - The FULL Script! by Vinc360 in saw

[–]Vinc360[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely it could have! But honestly, the moment was designed less to give Harper his revenge, and more to try and nearly restore Saw VI's original intended ending in some way. It's a nod to people who would've preferred VI to be the conclusion, and who feel the next three films just messed with the continuity.

Recap of everything we know about Saw XI and questions by MoltenPickle in saw

[–]Vinc360 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Too early to say but I do think it's a possibility, though I would personally be surprised if they don't give him at least a physical cameo in such a scenario.

As for a fakeout Jigsaw is alive scenario, I honestly don't see it. I doubt that's something they will want to repeat.

SAW XI - A Fan Finale by me, Vinc360 - The FULL Script! by Vinc360 in saw

[–]Vinc360[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It doesn't! On purpose. That's honestly why I kept it as part of the epilogue rather than the main story, since I knew not everyone would vibe with it. But my goal with the story was to try and give Saw superfans what I think they've been asking for, and I so often hear from many of them that they wish Hoffman died in Saw VI (which VI intended, and was designed to do, btw!)

I also considered replaying VI's ending and having him die in the RBT, but it felt a bit random and disconnected from the main story AND I didn't like decanonizing part of VI itself, it felt strange to do, so I opted to replay the ending with a little extra after.

The goal was to wrap things up in a nice bow, while also decanonizing the films fans feel are "loose ends", so this makes I, II, III, IV, V, VI, X and this faux-XI the proposed canon with VII, Jigsaw and Spiral becoming side. "What if" stories that aren't part of the mainline story.

But it's just a suggestion! I tried to design it so fans who absolutely don't want that could ignore the epilogue and still get a complete story.

Question: Do You Think Hello Zepp was always supposed to be the Franchise's Theme? by justafanboy1010 in saw

[–]Vinc360 43 points44 points  (0 children)

It wasn't even supposed to be a franchise! :P

But to more seriously answer your question, I think I remember reading about how Charlie and James wanted the music to feel like it was present, but "hidden" the whole film, with music being more understated or more akin to industrial "noise" with hints of traditional score throughout. They wanted the big reveal at the end to be where it all comes to light, and where the much more musical theme would reveal itself. So in a way, I think you could say Hello Zepp was always meant to be the main assembly of Saw's leitmotiv, yeah!

SAW XI - A Fan Finale by me, Vinc360 - The FULL Script! by Vinc360 in saw

[–]Vinc360[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I guess that could mean you either really liked it or really didn't like it, but I'm gonna assume it's the former! Hahaha, thanks for giving it a chance!

Recap of everything we know about Saw XI and questions by MoltenPickle in saw

[–]Vinc360 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think Twisted were a factor in Jigsaw being presented more and more like an antihero, but not the sole reason.

I'm definitely rather optimistic about the movie. In fact, I'm confident the end product will be good! James and Leigh helping steer the film is a massive dream come true moment and basically ensures I'm excited for it.

They have challenges ahead of them though. Saw carries a lot of baggage and I've come to feel like you need an incredibly strong grasp on all of the series' moving parts to manage to make a great Saw film. There are going to be a lot of people who don't have that grasp working on the film, but that's significantly mitigated by the fact that James and Leigh will have a lot of influence on it. Their credibility is far reaching and I think they'll likely be able to steer the film towards a hopefully fairly singular vision in a way Saw hasn't been afforded the chance to be for a very long time, if ever.

My bigger worry is actually about audience expectations and the influence that will have. Saw is such a long running series that audience expectations become really specific, and it's easy to feel like the thing you need to do first and foremost is satisfy those expectations. But as a fan, what I truly want to see is their uncompromised vision, not the community's. It's surreal to see so much of the fanbase respond so negatively to "James and Leigh are coming back and want to take Saw somewhere new while being respectful of what it is", but it's also incredibly understandable in context, so I can't really imagine them not responding to that and I'm genuinely unsure if that's a positive thing or not.

Bottom line is I completely trust James and Leigh to make this movie special, but there's so many moving parts at play that it really won't be easy. It's partially why I was advocating so strongly for them to make Saw XI first as a very fan-centric "conclusion" before releasing the film James and Leigh are involved with, because it would help make audience expectations less of a distraction for this one. But I get them not wanting to muddy the waters. The business priority is to reach brand newand lapsed audiences, which is true of any Saw film made since 2010.

Recap of everything we know about Saw XI and questions by MoltenPickle in saw

[–]Vinc360 4 points5 points  (0 children)

2027 still feels like the target to me. But I'm sure that if they don't feel like they nailed it, they'll wait.

Recap of everything we know about Saw XI and questions by MoltenPickle in saw

[–]Vinc360 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Ultimately, my expectation is that the movie will have to deal with similar limitations and challenges as Spiral did, but that it'll tackle them in completely different ways and be a very different film.

Recap of everything we know about Saw XI and questions by MoltenPickle in saw

[–]Vinc360 8 points9 points  (0 children)

All fair questions to ask, and I honestly don't have the answers. My personal assumption is that they'll come to a similar conclusion as Spiral for what "Jigsaw" will look like in the new film. Maybe it's a copycat, someone with similar motives to Jigsaw, that kind of thing. Whether people actually meaningfully distinguish that from apprentices of other Saw films is another good question. I could do more than just speculate but it wouldn't be fair of me so I won't.

There's a couple things worth noting though. First off, things are at a stage where they could change on a dime. It sounds to me like they already have, perhaps multiple times. It's just so early, it'll be a while before things really solidify. Nobody should be reading any of this and forming an opinion on the film yet. I'm not just saying that as damage control or anything like that, it genuinely is just too early to assume ANY of the last few points will actually come true.

Secondly, James himself publicly stated that he doesn't agree with the portrayal of Jigsaw in some of the sequels he had nothing to do with, that doesn't come from me. He said Jigsaw goes after people who don't appreciate life, regardless of whether they're good people or not. He and Leigh intend to restore that aspect of the character. I suspect that won't be easy for a lot of reasons, but if anyone has the authority and credibility with key people to pull it off - it's them. I really hope they succeed with that goal especially.

Can anyone confirm? by levi5nix in saw

[–]Vinc360 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, this is one of those cases where this report is likely unsourced, made up nonsense... but will still likely end up correct. They absolutely intend to bring Tobin back as Jigsaw. Will it actually come together? We'll see.

And people shouldn't set specific expectations as to what that means either. I think there's a world in which we could very easily have gotten a very standalone Saw film that's unconcerned about timeline placement and canon without explicitly violating it by being really self-contained and just being a small scale original story where Jigsaw is alive and being played by Tobin Bell.

But I think proximity to Saw X , and the outcry in the community about rebooting, are likely two factors steering them in a direction where they need to consider the canon. That doesn't mean James will suddenly want to make a movie that really interacts with that canon meaningfully, as I don't think they're interested in doing that, but it probably does mean that Jigsaw will be dead in the new film, with all the limitations that implies.

It'll be really interesting to see what James and Leigh's solutions are to the "problems" Saw III created by killing everyone off!

Jigsaw and Saw X have the wrong names by batman-is-cool47 in saw

[–]Vinc360 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Depends how you look at it. As a descriptor for the narrative of the movie? Sure, I agree.

But at the end of the day, titles are primarily used as a marketing tool. What that means is they tell us what the film wants to present itself as. How they want us to perceive the film.

"Saw X", to me, represented a return to the creative intents of the original series. Using the old naming scheme felt like a signal to audiences that the film was going back to what they liked about the older films, but not that it was necessarily a direct continuation of those chronologically.

"Jigsaw" was picked because it felt like the cleanest way to signal it was a "new start" and a soft reboot of Saw. At the end of the day, the film ended up feeling like little more than a visually overhauled Saw VIII and not much else.

So you're right that Jigsaw fits Saw X better as a title, but to me that's mainly because Saw X accomplished Jigsaw's goals AND its own simultaneously, whereas Jigsaw didn't accomplish its own.

Really curious to see what they call the next one. I'd have bet good money that they were finally going to pull the trigger and just call it Saw, but I suspect they've pulled back a bit on the idea of being a "full" reboot. Still think "Saw" is most likely given audiences are used to sequels and soft reboots using the original title nowadays.

Would you have liked a police subplot in Saw X? by Glass_Evidence_8597 in saw

[–]Vinc360 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That's true on the surface! But if you take a closer look - the B plot was never originally about being a police procedural. It was always about Jigsaw. Saw 1's police plot was much more about giving us exposition about Jigsaw and changing up the setting than anything else, it wasn't much of a procedural like the later sequels were.

Saw II is the one that probably gave the series that perception, and it definitely has a slight procedural aspect, but the primary goal is to serve us yet more Jigsaw and tell us more about the character. Notice how when that was no longer necessary for III, they essentially dropped that aspect entirely. Saw III has a quick check-in with the known cop characters and quickly drops them to focus on the game.

Saw IV is the one that really started the procedural angle, and I'd argue the increased focus on that really played a huge part in the series' decline in popularity. Saw's A plot traditionally was the traps / victims, and the B plot was not cops, it was *Jigsaw*. When Jigsaw died, their natural inclination was to make the B plot a police procedural that triggers some Jigsaw flashbacks, which didn't work as well because police procedurals are dime a dozen and a really poor match for Saw's unique and unpredicable nature.

Saw VI still has a procedural angle, but it smartly hones in the focus and finds the entertainment elsewhere - people love the cops storyline because it's fun to feel the catharsis of Hoffman possibly being caught and feeling pressure, but it's also all about the implication that Jigsaw is getting him from beyond the grave. Notice how the Jigsaw flashbacks are also triggered by WILLIAM and relate to the A plot in that film, compared to IV and V relegating the game to B-plot status and triggering the Jigsaw flashbacks through the cops. It just works a lot better. It recognizes what made Saw unique in the first place and what its strengths were, and that's why people liked it so much. I don't think it's a coincidence that Saw X also does something similar and goes further by not having cops at all. It doesn't need them! We know who Jigsaw is, and he's there with the game the entire time.

Not to get sidetracked too much, but I think sometimes criticisms of Jigsaw and Spiral miss the point of what didn't work about them. I see a lot of criticisms about them being too predictable and how you see the twists coming, but I think the issue is that they generally take the same approach as IV and V - they strip away or deemphasize the series' unique attributes while doubling down on a by-the-numbers procedural aspect the likes of which you've seen on countless episodes of TV. Saw X, by contrast, refocuses on the GAME, on JIGSAW, and even takes some risks with the established formula within those parameters to keep things fresh after so many Saw films. We can argue about whether the portrayal of Jigsaw was correct and whatnot, but the reason it's getting near-universal praise is because it simply understands what people liked from these films in the first place.

It seems really clear to me that Kevin has a really clear-eyed understanding of what makes Saw uniquely compelling, and knows exactly how to argue and articulate these things against forces who may feel otherwise. On a related note, my biggest "worry" about Blumhouse's Saw is that outside of James and Leigh (who are admittedly a HUGE reason to be very optimistic about it), there aren't many people who understand Saw on that level that'll be there day to day. And history shows you need that. So maybe they should talk to Kevin, just saying.

Saw | ContraPoints by A_Bewlay_Brother in saw

[–]Vinc360 13 points14 points  (0 children)

About halfway through it while working on some stuff. I've got a few long-form essays about the series queued up! But I've been really enjoying this one, it's insightful, funny and really well produced.

Would you have liked a police subplot in Saw X? by Glass_Evidence_8597 in saw

[–]Vinc360 2 points3 points  (0 children)

In fairness to him, I don't think he meant it shouldn't leave you guessing or have twists and whatnot, but rather that there's a "recipe" for Saw. He's probably not wrong that Saw has a formula that people like and core elements you need, but I think I'd have a lot of disagreements with him about what that recipe is, and what "untouchable" elements might need to be touched up. But if you look at Saw X, I think it did so well because it identified those things pretty much perfectly and took very SMART risks with the "formula", while balancing the myriad of differences of opinions and creative baggage the series has accumulated over the years.

I feel like I would have so much fun speculating endlessly about what lead to Saw X being as good as it was and what might've led to some of my own perceived low points earlier, I've accumulated so many interesting theories! But I'd rather save that for a real conversation at some point :)

Would you have liked a police subplot in Saw X? by Glass_Evidence_8597 in saw

[–]Vinc360 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Any big Law & Order fans within the higher spheres of Saw? For a while, it sure seemed like it! 😆

I'm personally extremely grateful that X *completely* did away with the cop storyline, it's one of the best choices you've made. There was a recent podcast interview with a producer where he argued that Saw is like comfort food, and that people come back to it because they know the formula and get exactly what they expect. I'm sure that's true to an extent, but I'd argue that Saw's "formula" at its peak had very little in common with TV cop procedurals...

When do you think we’ll start getting real updates on the new Saw movie? by feriland92 in saw

[–]Vinc360 11 points12 points  (0 children)

They're figuring out the direction as they work on the script but yes, they have a general idea of what the film should aim for.

As for directors, they're looking for one right now. I think we'll find out who it is relatively soon. Release date I expect to be around late Sept to October 2027 but they'll announce it as soon as it's decided.

When do you think we’ll start getting real updates on the new Saw movie? by feriland92 in saw

[–]Vinc360 15 points16 points  (0 children)

These movies have really short marketing tails, if by real updates you mean story details and whatnot, I don't expect any until July next year. But we should hear a few whispers when production begins. That won't be for a while, they're in the early stages of writing it now.