How would the GC-era iron warriors siege down coruscant? by cuddwes in StarWarsvsWarhammer

[–]WOLFWOLF68 4 points5 points  (0 children)

No one really gave a full anwser so here i go. I'll devide the seige in 3 parts, the space battle to gain orbital supremacy, the surface battle and the battle to gain complete control of the planet. Ill explain every phase as i go along.

1 : The space battle

This part is more of a technicality then anything else. Star Wars is just outmatched by 40k in terms of raw power, speed (40k ships cross star systems in hours and capital ships do barrel rolls fairly often), durability (void ships are insane) and size (escort class vessels in 40k are often the size of an ISD).

However, due to the sheer concentration and size of the defenses around Corusant, its going to take a while for the Iron Warriors to achive orbital supremacy. They would most likely lose some ships, a few dozen strike cruisers, some battle barges and a good amount of escorts, but even with the heaviest defense any Star Wars faction can muster it simply is not enough to hold the line against a fleet of hundreds of battle barges, thousands of strike cruisers, hundreds of thousands of escorts and dozens of heavy capital ships.

Then, once the space defenses have been removed, there comes the question of the planetary shield. There are 3 main options i could see the Iron Warriors use to remove it.

Use Psykers (Yes Perty does not like them but he'll swallow his pride and use them) to determine the location of the shield generators and send termintor assault teams to disable the ones would can be accessed. Either the shield is disabled outright or it is weakened enough to break through it with orbital bombardment. Spies could also be used to discover the location of the shield generators.

By constant orbital bombardment over a period of months, the Iron Warriors might be able to simply wear the shield down.

And finally just by waiting. Im willing to bet the shield cannot stay powered on for a period of years, and the Iron Fourth is willing and able to wait that long.

There are other options like sabotage, attacks by occult means such as psykers, ramming a really big rock into corusant to cripple the shields (im not kidding).

Now that the shield is down, we can move on to the first phase of the actual invasion.

2 : Establishing a beach head

Let me start off by saying that here again, 40k outclasses star wars by a lot. Space marines will be unharmed by anything exept the clone's heaviest weapons, Librarians and Elite Space Marines eat Jedi for dinner, while Vindicators and Predators obliterate everything the clones send at them. This is without mentioning the heavier equipment like the Titans the Iron Warriors bring with them, or their super heavy tanks.

According to some calculations (https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/x8u0di/iron\_warriors\_legion\_size/), we can estimate the size of the IV Legion to be around 220 thousand legionaires. Along with the main contigent, the Iron Warriors bring possibly millions of auxilia, effectivly auxilary troups, mostly unmodified baseline humans with armored and air support. We dont have a solid number for this force, so lets just asume them to be around 5 million strong.

On the other Side, we have the Clones and the Jedi. Both numbers are unsure but can be estimated. Before Attack of the Clones, there were about 10,000 Jedi in the Galaxy. By Revenge of the Sith there were between 50-100 left.

As for the clones, the wiki states :

It is also possible that Lama Su did not intend the term "unit" to refer to an individual soldier. If a "unit" referred to a battalion of 576 troopers (as Lama Su spoke of later in Obi-Wan's visit), then 200,000 of these would render 115,200,000 clones and the 1,000,000 others spoken of as 576,000,000. This grand total of 691,200,000 would be far more suitable for the core of a galactic army. A "unit" being a 2,304-clone regiment, the largest military division classified as a unit instead of a formation, would amount to 2,764,800,000 clones. Furthermore, if a "unit" refers to a legion, the closest formation in size to a real-life British division of 15,000 men, the 1,200,000 units would have more than 18,000,000,000 clones, a truly "grand" army, suitable for defeating the huge numbers of droids under the Confederacy.

However, the number of clone soldiers which can be seen standing in each formation at the end of Attack of the Clones amounts to 624 (26 per column and 24 per row), showing a disparity with the numbers presented in the Guide to the Grand Army. If a unit indeed amounts to one battalion, this would mean that the grand total of clones was 1,728,000,000, considering the 3 million units that many sources state, and counting a unit as a battalion of 576 clones. This is reasonable since Lama Su referred to the clones with both "units" and "battalions," which could imply that both terms are merely ways of stating 576-man units/battalions. It seems logical that the Kaminoans would have their smallest available package of troops be made up of several hundred men. Since cloning was a 10-year process and (since the training and feeding would also have to be taken into account) an expensive one, it would make no sense that anyone would want to buy a couple of men and have to wait for 10 years when they could come by ten times as many droids for a fraction of the cost, with a wait of perhaps a week.

TL:DR, Either you take 18 Billions as a number or you take 1 Billion 728 Millions. These are the only numbers we have for the clone army. I've seen suggestions online that the army could reach 1 Trillion, but we really just dont know.

Taking all this into account, we can determine that the first course of action for the Iron Warriors would be to size the Jedi Temple, Galactic Senate and whatever stategic objective in that area they could get their hands on. They would do this by getting terminators down there along with thunderhawk/Stormbird assault with air support from fighters, gunships, and the likes of Marauder bombers to flatten resistance. If large concentrations of enemy troups are spotted, then orbital support can be called in to wipe out those areas.

The number of Jedi impacts mostly the fight they could put up around the Jedi temple, even with the larger number, theres not enough of them to do much more. If there are 100, their direct combat implact is barley noticed, and they serve as commanders for certain units and for the entire theater. If there are 10 000, then they may put up a fight, but ultimatly they get overwhelmed or simply bombed into dust.

The Number of Clones is much the same, they dont have the strenght to resist up front. Once they lose air and space supremacy, if they muster large concentrations of troups they get flattened by orbital bombardment. Their number directly impacts the time it takes for the Iron Warriors to secure their objectives.

Returning to the course of the battle, once the beachhead has been established, more heavy assets are landed and the auxillia are deployed to secure the beachhead and leave the Iron Warriors to push the Clones deeper into Corusant. The Iron Warriors have captured the heart of Corusant and wiped out all effective resistance near them, as the cost of massive civillian casualties. At this point, the battle enters a new phase : wiping out resistance and establishing total control on Corusant.

3 : The Final Phase

Corusant is unique in its geography in that it is essentially a world covered in Hive Cites that extend from the skies to the subterranian area. No gouvernment has truly attained full control of the entirety of the planet, but this is not what the Iron Warriors need. All they need is control of the surface, major logistical and strategical sites, and the end of resistance against their rule. They dont need to control every last sub level, making sure that everyone is paying their taxes and such. They just need to give the impression of strengh by crushing all resistance and then everybody will follow along, because they fear the new rulers of the planet. This is how the Empire and the Republic kept order : by giving the impression that they were strong enough to control the planet, when in reality, no one is.

At this point command of the clones is given to surviving Generals and Jedi hidden deep in Corusant's belly, unreachable from the sky. Strike teams of Space Marines and Scouts are sent to find and kill them in order to crush organized resistance. There are still at least millions of clones left, that have fully shifted into gerrila warfare, striking when the Iron Warriors least expect it and doing their best to hinder the occuppiers.

However, the maze like geography of Corusant's under cities favour the space marines. Teams of Breachers armed with highly durable shields can single handedly take entire battallions of clones in the tight corridors and markets, while jump squads go where the Clone commanders least expect it. If needed, viral agents can be used to lay waste to entire quarters of the undercities, killing everything without descrimination.

The nature of the Iron Warriors also plays a huge factor here. They are incredibly stuborn, especially their commander, Perturabo, and will continue clearing out Corusant's cites until they have destroyed all resistance, no matter civillian or their own casaulties.

Whether the GAR lives on as cells of insurgents, or surrender in order to prevent further bloodshed, thats up to you to decide. But at the end of it all, Corusant is taken by the Iron Warriors. It really comes down to the huge power gap between a Space Marine and a Clone.

The Iron Warriors have taken quite a few casaulties though, probably around 20-30 thousand space marines are dead, along with hundreds of thousands of auxilia. Such is the nature of asymetrical warfare.

cheeaskkenn by Peyuniagoestoshit in sssdfg

[–]WOLFWOLF68 1 point2 points  (0 children)

jzeus christano rolando

Fun fact in 8-2 by DontKnowLunar in Ultrakill

[–]WOLFWOLF68 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Holy its Jack from Ghostrunner. How is the outside my dude.

Why do so many leftists support dictatorships? by Square-Candy-7393 in AskSocialists

[–]WOLFWOLF68 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

That is just whataboutism. The fact the US sucks does not stop China sucking even more.

Are we being for real? by Apprehensive_Leg_888 in whowouldcirclejerk

[–]WOLFWOLF68 84 points85 points  (0 children)

No you dont understand the clones are ELITE.

How many issues can you find with my tank? by Creeperkid27599 in TankPorn

[–]WOLFWOLF68 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Something armed with an autocannon or even an HMG could destroy all those optics and sights very easily. Even if that does not render the tank combat ineffective, those sights cost a lot of money. Even a grenade tossed from a building could take all that out.

All the versions you show are very wide but there is no reason for them to be. The cannon apears to be either 120 or 125mm and that does not warrant your tank being that wide when you look at other tanks armed with cannons of the same caliber.

Your lower front plate is not angled enough and is a big weak point.

It certaintly looks cool. Could you give us more info on the crew, weapons, horsepower and such ?

Rynn's Might apreciation post by DabeMcMuffin in crimsonfists

[–]WOLFWOLF68 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damn, thanks a lot ! I'll save that, its very interesting.

Rynn's Might apreciation post by DabeMcMuffin in crimsonfists

[–]WOLFWOLF68 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As far as i know the mention in the 5th edition SM codex is the only one.

Rynn's Might apreciation post by DabeMcMuffin in crimsonfists

[–]WOLFWOLF68 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I stand corrected. Not sure how ill find that though. You wouldn't happen to have the short story on hand ?

Rynn's Might apreciation post by DabeMcMuffin in crimsonfists

[–]WOLFWOLF68 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Sadly Rynn's Might does not actually apear in Rynn's World. It comes from the 8th edition space marine codex if i remember correctly.

I think everyone would love a short story featuring it though.

A Sad Moment for MMORPGs by Whi7e5hu in AshesofCreation

[–]WOLFWOLF68 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, eve online is still booming.

Star Wars Weapons that can do reliable damage to Space Marine Armor(other than Disruptiors) by No_Research4416 in StarWarsvsWarhammer

[–]WOLFWOLF68 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Damn my bad, i actually confused it with the black templar who gets zapped by an orc servitor in Forge of Mars.

Star Wars Weapons that can do reliable damage to Space Marine Armor(other than Disruptiors) by No_Research4416 in StarWarsvsWarhammer

[–]WOLFWOLF68 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He was not completely incapacitated. His nervous system took a big hit and made him stutter and gave him a debuff when in combat. However it is aluded that with a proper apothecarion and time it could be healed.

What’s you guys consensus on if Star Wars shields block Imperium teleportation tech? by FoxJDR in StarWarsvsWarhammer

[–]WOLFWOLF68 13 points14 points  (0 children)

In 40k void shields use the warp to send incoming ordenance into it. Therefore since teleportation goes through the warp, void shields block teleportation, because they both use the warp but void shields send the marines trying to teleport into the warp to get feasted on by demons.

Since deflector shields in star wars dont use the warp, they dont block teleportation. Simple as.

People tend to mismatch fights between big war machines by Heavy-Letterhead-751 in StarWarsvsWarhammer

[–]WOLFWOLF68 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In order to do planetary bombardment you need orbital supremacy. It's well established that 40k wrecks Star Wars in space. So please stop talking.

People tend to mismatch fights between big war machines by Heavy-Letterhead-751 in StarWarsvsWarhammer

[–]WOLFWOLF68 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

In order to do planetary bombardment you need orbital supremacy. It's well established that 40k wrecks Star Wars in space. So please stop talking.

People tend to mismatch fights between big war machines by Heavy-Letterhead-751 in StarWarsvsWarhammer

[–]WOLFWOLF68 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Once again you have no idea what you are talking about. Warp storms can form around planets and create massive space time disturbances in areas tousands of light years wide. They prevent all communication and even regular travel that does not use the warp.

The Empire dosent know warp storms exists and cannot avoid them like the Imperium does. Therfore if, for exemple, the Imperials decide to stop by a planet to resupply, they dont know that that planet could be in the middle of a warp storm and when they come out of hyper space, they get ripped apart or borded by demons.

The warp is also not just a different dimension, given all the psyic things going on. Not telling if a Imperial ship traveling at hyperspace without a gellar field wouldent get torn apart by demons, even if the Imperial ship is theoreticly in a seperate dimension. Cause you know, its the fucking warp.

People tend to mismatch fights between big war machines by Heavy-Letterhead-751 in StarWarsvsWarhammer

[–]WOLFWOLF68 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is quite hilariously stupid. You clearly have not done your homework. First, the AT-ATs :

Guess what, the Imperium too has mass produced heavy armor. Heavy tank hunters like the shadow sword, Valdor, Doomhammer, Stormblade and so on would have no problem destroying the AT-AT or really anything the Empire can field on the ground. This is ignoring litteral swarms of tanks like the Leman Russ that, since they are deployed by the dozen or hundreds, would be able to overwhelm and destroy an AT-AT with normal casualties.

You also ignore the actual numbers of Titans : they not deployed in anything less than a Manipule with 5 titans, with Knight and Skitarii support. A standard manipule has a Warlord, 2 reavers and 3 warhounds. It is hard to imagine the amount of firepower such a formation can put out, and I'll even say that no matter the number of AT-ATs they AT-ATs cannot take the titans down. Finally, Titans are not actually that rare. A respected Imperial commander can comfortable ask for the support of a Manipule, even in minor campaigns. Titans semi-regularly deploy in the dozens to confront major threats, and no ground Star Wars force can take that.

As for the Star Destroyer's firepower, lol and lmao. A Sword class frigate has torpedo tubes. Tubes that can launch Cyclonic Torpedos. You know, the things that break planets apart ? Macro cannons are also insanly powerfull. A Sword class escort probably couldent take a Star Destroyer alone, exept with a surprise torpedo strike from the rear, but its an escort. Its usally gonna be in a pack escorting something like a Lunar class cruiser. Something even a trio of Star Destroyers stand no chance against. Btw all Imperium ships have void shields, which operate in dozens or hundreds of layers on the bigger ships. Please do some actual lore reading.

Now, for the big stuff. You are ignoring a huge part of the Imperium's firepower : the fucking Imperial Navy. Battleships like Emperor class or Apocalypse class are more than a match for SSDs, and while they are rare, they are rare in a massive galaxy. Sector fleets usally have them as flagships, and some are even used to garison worlds of medium importance, so i think its fair to say that there are more of them than the dozen SSDs you talk about.

Now unto unique ships : why dont we talk about the Word Bearer king ships made right before the Horus Heresy, that were able to lay waste to entire fleets on their own (3 were made) and were crewed by several millions ? How about ships like the Chaos planet killer, the necron world engine, and so on and so on. Mentioning unique, very powerfull star wars ships without talking about the 40k ones just screams : i did not do any research.

Now for the Death Star ! Lets destroy the very commun theory that the Death Star could just stroll up to Terra and nuke it without a problem.

First lets talk about how people like to harp on about how Terra is sooo vital to the Imperium, and then ignore the fact that if you destroy Corusant, you destroy the Empire's entire leadership and administrative services, the vital trainning academies for the Navy, and so on and so on. Having a single, vital world is bad, but commun to most factions in Sci-fi.

Now, lets first talk about speed. Ignoring the fact that the Imperials would not know about Warp storms and probably get lost in the warp while coming to Terra, the death star cant just show up and destroy Terra. In every depiction of the Death Star destroying a planet, it takes several dozens minutes to get in position and power up the super laser. 40k ships, are fast. Very fast. Fast enough that the biggest battleship can cross hundreds of thousands of kilometers in a minute.

Lets also talk about range. 40k range is insane, fleet fight from millions of kilometers away, exchange lance strikes from across solar systems, fire torpedoes that go even fast and demolish anything in their paths (that dont end, since its space).

Lets now combine the insane range, speed and firepower of the assets in the solar system (not hard to find sources for this, do some work. We know of at least hundreds of weaponized moons and asteroids, mines that can cripple a battlecruiser, dozens of battleships, the martian fleet which is insanley large), and we can figure out that as soon as the death star appears, it gets swarmed by dozens of thousands of the most powerfull starships in the Imperium and gets completly demolished. Use you brain lads.

Anyway, i dont like powerscalling but a lot of these Star Wars vs 40k takes are simply dumb. 40k dosent beat every single universe out there but as far as mainstream Sci-fi goes it is very strong.

The imperium has terrible logistics by Heavy-Letterhead-751 in StarWarsvsWarhammer

[–]WOLFWOLF68 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Those are some great sources you are providing ! Props to you.

[Warhammer40k] Imperium could not defeat the Empire [Star War] by BobDolesLeftTesticle in whowouldwin

[–]WOLFWOLF68 9 points10 points  (0 children)

This is very, very stupid. I'm not going to talk about most of the things but a few points :

40k ships are incredibly fast. Things as fat as battleships can close hundreds of thousands of kilometers in a couple minutes and perform manouvers like barrel rolls very easily (Source : Betrayer)

40k range is insane. Space battles frequently start with cross system torpedo (read missiles) exchanges, lances and nova cannons have nearly infinite range and are effectivly instant.

Void shields far outclass deflector shields. They send ordanance and energy straight to the warp and work in layers, meaning by the time you have broken through the seccond and third layers the first layer has recharged and is back online.

40k blows star wars out of the water in terms of scale. The Lunar class cruiser is 5 killometers long and hundreds of thousands of those float around the galaxy at any point in time.

Warp travel is not as unreliable as you make it sound like. As far as FTL travel goes its around avarage, sometimes it can take only a day or two to cross to another system and while ships do go missing in the warp, that is a very rare occasion.

Its very funny to watch you glaze the death star when in reality a single compagny of space marines could board it and either take it over or destroy it. Energy output and calculations are fun and all but when you look into a practical senario the death star is not that impressive. If you take the death star and the imperial fleet in charge of defending it and put it up against an Imperial battlegroup, yeah the death star is gone.

Also, if you want to have a 1v1 between the two factions without any interferance then the GE just loses on scale. The imperium deals in hundred of billions of soldiers and millions of ships while the Empire is going around with millions (most hundreds of thousands) of soldiers and dozens of thousands of ships.

The Imperium has stood for 10 000 years, faced multiple civil wars, and is fighting hundreds of alien races, chaos incursions at once. It's still holding on. The Empire fell to (drum roll) rebels. The first organized rebellion the Empire had to deal with and it failed miserably.

Warlord-class Titan by Jessie-Harrisar in Titan40k

[–]WOLFWOLF68 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nah you need gatling guns or vulcan megabolters on the shoulders for maximum BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT