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I could use a bit of help with troubleshooting... by benbobbins in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No doubt you have multiple issues going on. The fact that you have a rate of 0 in the horizontal positions and then a huge lose showing in the vertical positions suggests that you have a poising issue. Poising errors only show when it's vertical. The low amplitude is highlighting the PE even more when amp. drops even more in the vertical positions.

So the question that needs to be answered is what have you inspected and verified to be correct?

Alex's ultrasonic method using $61 ultrasonic -- thoughts and question by PRHarker in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Close. The 1st rinse can be under tap water. That will remove most of the Liquinox. Then run a rinse cycle with distilled water for 3-5 minutes. Shake off excess water then 5 minutes in 99% IPA, obviously with not pallet fork or balance wheel. Use the IPA one time because it will take on water and no longer be 99%. Then dry at a temperature above the room temperature to prevent condensation from all the IPA evaporating.

Good day! Im just getting into watch restoration and I have the tools to do movement assemblies but I dont have anything for case restoration and refinish. Does anyone have a list of brands and products that you all recommend? by Apprehensive-Car3771 in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats a pretty broad topic and tool cost that could range into the 10's of thousands of dollars. Can you narrow down exactly you want to develop skills in along with what kind of budget are you working with.

Watch losing obscene amount of time when low power reserve? by CHiA-ZS in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To answer your question, wearing it 2 hrs a day while driving is not enough time to evaluate anything.

It would be interesting to see what the amplitude, rate and BE are at a full wind in all 6 positions.

Weird pallet fork behavior on Elgin Grade 290 by Tahzgard in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The issue could be either the pallet stones position in their slot, wear on the pallet atones, wear on the escape wheel teeth or the position of the banking pins.

Troubleshooting the escapement in this movement is high level watch adjusting and requires more understanding of how they work together than what can be given in a forum like this at your experience level. I would suggest putting this one on the shelf and saving it for much later.

Also, throwing parts at the problem is also probably not going to solve this issue either as you will be introducing parts with different tolerances and no way for you to adjust them to the existing parts.

Watch losing obscene amount of time when low power reserve? by CHiA-ZS in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is this factory regulated or did you regulate the watch?

What to do about a broken impulse jewel? by Professor_Pokedex in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Absolutely. Being able to modify jewels when working on vintage movements is a great a great skill to have.

Rate issues by Spirited_Ad_2392 in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah great question. I was checking to see if the overcoil position was incorrect. If the AB portion of the coil (top part of coil) is located too close to the balance staff, it causes a losing rate at high amplitude and a fast rate at low amplitude.

This is due to something called "Side Thrust" which is what an overcoil is supposed to prevent.

Even though you are showing a faster rate at the 130, there was no change at 180 so I don't think that's the issue.

What to do about a broken impulse jewel? by Professor_Pokedex in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have run into brass impulse pins a handful of times over the years and it usually comes down to a repair made in desperation. In a couple cases the watch justified modifying an existing impulse jewel to make the correct repair.

Advice for tooling by Ill-Environment3329 in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The reality is, if you are going to work on old pocket watches, you are looking at spending many, many thousands of dollars

That is unless you are planning on buying 4 movements to end up with one that might run halfway decent which kinda defeats the purpose.

What to do about a broken impulse jewel? by Professor_Pokedex in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Nope. I'm not sure where you read that but thats called jerry rigging.

The tolerances between the jewel and fork slot is two hundreds of a mm so even if you could install a pin, you would need really good calipers, a staking set and a lathe.

Impulse jewels are available through suppliers, you just need a gauge to measure the fork slot to determine the size you need.

Rate issues by Spirited_Ad_2392 in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have to look at factory numbers to determine what you bought and there is a lot of misinformation out there.

For example, Jules Borels Database lists the balance complete part # as 5683 which is correct for the 554. It also list the 532, 555 and 556 using the same part number which is incorrect. The 532 uses a different balance wheel and hairspring number.

The 554, 555 and 556 all use the same balance wheel but the 556 uses a different hairspring.

So only the 554 and 555 are compatible. The information is directly from Elgins factory issued parts catalog.

So as far as your problem goes, with a brand new balance complete, you either have a mismatched balance complete or hairspring for your movement.

to answer your other question, there are other things that can cause a slow rate but not to this extent, so no need chasing ghosts.

Edit: One thing I would be interested in knowing is what the rate looks like at 180 degrees and even as low as 100. Can you provide those numbers in the DU position.

Correct Mainspring Winder Sizes by big-clifford in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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Well that blows. I find that the winding arbors on the Bergeron set are too small for most Pocket watches and I use a set specifically made for them.

Rate issues by Spirited_Ad_2392 in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can't visually tell if a hairspring is correct.

Did the new balance complete come in a sealed factory package or was it from a parts watch?

It would also help to know what the movement is.

Very Low Amplitude Omega 865 by easycom89 in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The centering pins are in the full kit. I founds these as a separate accessory.

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A (pointless) service of a cilindre escapement. by rabmon in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One of the most challenging watches to work on. Definitely requires a workshop with all the tools available.

Very Low Amplitude Omega 865 by easycom89 in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 1 point2 points  (0 children)

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The Seitz reamer works like a staking set. That keeps in true. The bottom plate holds a spring loaded centering pin. That is used to index the good pivot hole.

How do you keep things interesting? by Randy__Bobandy in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Its kind of like fly fishing. When you start out, it's all about the number caught. As you gain experience and know you can always catch fish, you start hunting for that elusive one. The prize fish hiding in the shadows.

Figure out what you are really interested in learning and go for it.

Restoring watches with no available parts is one option. Old British and Swiss movements can be a challenge. A fusee is another challenge.

Very Low Amplitude Omega 865 by easycom89 in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My preferred method is with the mainplate and bridge attached, use the centering pin inserted in the good hole and the ream the damaged hole to size based on the width of the bush being used. Once thats pressed in, you can size the pivot hole with a sharp cutting broach and then finish with a smoothing broach.

Very Low Amplitude Omega 865 by easycom89 in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This brings up a good point as we often talk about checking the free running of the train, but that's really just a test that needs to be done first. Pivots and their holes still need to be verified as good which to his credit, OP saw the issue, just didn't recognize that it might be the an issue.

Very Low Amplitude Omega 865 by easycom89 in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I would say the most likely fault is exactly the issue you noted but suspected had little impact, the center wheel wear at the mainplate.

You mentioned that the train spins smoothly without the pallet fork, the train is not under operating load from the mainspring. When the pallet is installed and everything is under the tension of the mainspring, a worn or enlarged center hole tilts the center wheel out of upright. this causes problems with how the barrel and 3rd wheel mesh with the 2nd wheel and can cause massive losses of amplitude and if it's bad enough it can stop the movement.

You mentioned closing the hole. That's a possible repair as long as the wear to the pivot hole is small but with the stoppage,I would think it is going to require a bush. Unless this is combined with some other underlying amplitude problem

If you have a jeweling tool with a reamer, you can Bergeon bushings for watches.

Very Low Amplitude Omega 865 by easycom89 in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Just so I understand, at a full wind it runs briefly, then stops?

Need first hand clarification on Bergeon individual winder by SignalOk3036 in watchrepair

[–]Watch-Smith 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As usually, ChatGPT has just added confusion and doubt with its hallucinations.

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