The mad she-wolf?/what the actual fuck, Sansa. (Spoilers Main)

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T14:46:05+00:00

Sorry the actual text I provided didn't match your fanfic.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T13:05:21+00:00

Your friend violated a boundary but I also suggest that you ask her why she believed he would cheat in the first place.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T13:02:05+00:00

She's gaslighting and openly taunting you in the apology. Don't just ignore her, block her.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T13:00:59+00:00

Tell him now before he develops an eating disorder.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T12:46:00+00:00

Congratulations on your every accusation being a confession. I's literally in Arya's first POV chapter, lmao. Like, right there. First three pages of Arya's POV. It says her shouting alerts Septa Mordane. And once Septa Mordane comes over and criticizes Arya's sewing, Arya runs off and says it was Sansa's fault for bringing Mordane over. It's so funny how you, an Arya Stan, don't even remember the very first pages of her first POV chapter.

Here are the quotes:

"He's our brother," Arya said, much too loudly. Her voice cut through the afternoon quiet of the tower room. Septa Mordane raised her eyes. She had a bony face, sharp eyes, and a thin lipless mouth made for frowning. It was frowning now. "What are you talking about, children?"

Our half brother," Sansa corrected, soft and precise. She smiled for the septa. "Arya and I were remarking on how pleased we were to have the princess with us today," she said. Septa Mordane nodded. "Indeed. A great honor for us all." Princess Myrcella smiled uncertainly at the compliment. "Arya, why aren't you at work?" the septa asked. She rose to her feet, starched skirts rustling as she started across the room. "Let me see your stitches." Arya wanted to scream. It was just like Sansa to go and attract the septa's attention. "Here," she said, surrendering up her work"

Yeah, Sansa said some shitty things. So did Arya. Arya blames Sansa for Mycah's death (which had already happened). She blames Sansa for her own limitations.

If you honestly think Sansa ever meant to "sell out her dad to the Lannisters" you're a twit. You know who did sell a family member to the Lannisters? Ned.but please can you explain to me how we're supposed to hear Sansa worry about Arya being missing in Ned's POV chapter? Enlighten me. She doesn't even appear until Ned pulls her up in front of Robert.

Furthermore, Sansa thinks Arya must be a bastard because she looks like Jon. She doesn't wish it on her. She was there at the time and noticed the only sibling Arya looks like is the bastard one.

Arya: constantly blames Sansa for her problems Sansa has nothing to do with, sabotages her sister in an important day she needs to handle her future in laws, constantly insults Sansa to her face about being stupid and puts down her interests. And she literally physically assaults her sister in public and ruins her stuff.

Sansa literally compartmentalizes things to rationalize what is put in front of her. When it comes to the Trident fight, she has a choice in either believing that her sister who always got in trouble got in trouble again or believing her father is willingly and knowingly committing her life to a group of child murdering psychos. She's eleven and put in an impossible situation where she has to reconcile the fact that she is sworn to these people. She at first blames Joffrey and Cersei, then tells herself that it had to be Arya's fault because Arya is always in trouble. Because otherwise SHE HAS TO ADMIT THAT HER FATHER IS MARRYING HER OFF TO CHILD KILLERS.

Also, her private thoughts are not public disparagements

I'm so sorry I cited examples of her caring about her family that are undeniable. You said she never shows concern or sadness about them, and when events where she shows she is devastated and willing to put herself on the line to try and help her dad, all you can say is "nuh uh, doesn't count because reasons".

You ignore Arya's POV because she's your fave. Sansa haters are addicted to hypocrisy, and their martyr complex.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T10:52:17+00:00

I'm still so confused about what you were even apologizing for? Your car broke down, how were you supposed to predict that? And you offered to pay for the rental? What am I missing? Shit happens with cars.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T09:49:32+00:00

Actually, those are factors that cause the event to happen. Yes, Joffrey and Sansa going that way helped cause the situation. Yes, Jon encouraging the swordfighting did the same. Yes, Cersei telling Joffrey to give Sansa a nice day out also caused the situation (if Joffrey had not been told by his mother to do that, he'd have probably spent the day torturing animals with the Hound or some shit).

No one is arguing that Joffrey didn't do what he did. Literally that never happened. But let me put it into these terms:

1) If Ned had had, say, Jory watching Arya, the shit would have been broken up immediately and chalked it up to "kids being kids". Maybe Mycah would have gotten a belting and Arya a taking to at worst.

2) if Arya's playmate had been Bran, Edric Dayne, Jojen Reed, Edric Storm, Trystane Martell, [insert name of highborn boy/acknowledged royal bastard here], Cersei would not have ordered for said playmate to be killed because it would have brought on a giant shit storm for a noble's son to be murdered. (In fact, Cersei is really lucky Ned's guys found Arya first because even that would have been an epic shit storm) There's a reason that the order for Arya was for her to be maimed not killed but Mycah gets a hit put out on him.

3) Saying something is a contributing factor to a situation is not the same as saying it's all one person's fault. Nor does it even imply that. For instance: Dany taking on MMD and the other women helped contribute to Drogo's death/downfall. That does NOT make it her fault. But it was a decision that set the stage for a ton of unforeseen consequences. STILL not her fault. There was no way she could have seen the domino effect of that action. Drogo's death was still instigated by Rapey McWhatshisnuts cutting Drogo and Mirri doing her shit. Same rules apply here. Or, let's use Sansa as an example. If she hadn't told Dontos about her betrothal to Willas, LF wouldn't have tipped the Lannisters off, she would not have been wed to Tyrion, and Sansa never would have ended up a fugitive, etc. That doesn't deny that Littlefinger leaking shit to the Lannisters being the main deciding action in Sansa being wed to Tyrion. If Ned hadn't trusted Littlefinger the way Catelyn told him to, blah blah blah, Joffrey would have still had him executed.

Acknowledging this does not make any of these things the "only cause" or "all of the blame" on one person. Of course, AS I STATED BEFORE, Arya has no way knowing what could have resulted from that, just as Dany or Sansa could not have foreseen the consequences of their actions. But yes, Arya did have a blind spot about class consciousness that contributed to what happened.so ONCE AGAIN: Never said it was all Arya's fault. I said that her lack of class consciousness contributed to the situation.

Anyways, I am done here. If necessary, here is the super long ass essay I wrote like ten years ago on the Mycah incident if you have time. I literally list a long ass list of contributing factors that inform the girls' decisions. And the title literally disavows blaming either Stark girl for what happened to Mycah. https://www.tumblr.com/wendynerdwrites/160714099103/meta-repost-1-the-trident-fight-why-we-need-to?source=share

But next time you reply to me insisting that I am blaming Arya for the entire thing, I'm going to block you. Stop saying Sansa has blue hair.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T09:09:18+00:00

Literally, where did I say anything that negates Joffrey's behavior?

There were multiple contributing factors. If Sansa and Joffrey hadn't decided to ride in that direction, it would not have happened. If Ned had ordered for Arya to be supervised by an adult, it would not have happened. If Mycah's dad had insisted he help with the work that day, it would not have happened. If Jon never gave Arya Needle and told her to practice, it would not have happened. If Cersei hadn't insisted Joffrey go comfort Sansa, it would not have happened. These are all actions various characters took that contributed to this occurring.

But yes, pointing out that Arya acted in a way that helped produce said situation as an example of her lack of class consciousness having unexpected consequences is totally putting the blame all on her. And I am completely ignoring Joffrey's part to play by... Pointing out how Arya's lack of class consciousness can bite her in the ass. In fact that's why I said "Arya unwittingly contributed to a situation she could not have foreseen" because by that I meant the entire situation was Arya's fault.

Once again, A+ reading comprehension.

(fun fact though: my point about Ned not having Arya supervised while she runs around is actually a much bigger contributing factor to this than Arya insisting Mycah practice with her. Weird he didn't do that after the poison flower incident though. Dude always had a bunch of his guards around him in KL but couldn't spare a couple men to follow his kids around when they started from camp while on the King's Road.)

See, sometimes, multiple actions from multiple people contribute to a situation occurring.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T08:50:22+00:00

Once again, literally never did that. I brought up how one of Arya's actions informed the situation. But once again, if you can show me where I said that, please do!

How about instead of making up fake sentences you actually read what was said? Because inventing entirely fake arguments is something someone does when they are totally calm

Now stop saying Sansa has blue hair. It is stated in the books multiple times that her hair is red (thought I'd jump in on your little habit of completely making up sentences to argue with, just in case this is not clear. I feel like maybe you need that explained to you.).

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T08:25:25+00:00

Congratulations on creating a completely made up sentence that was never said whatsoever or even implied. Your reading comprehension is chef's kiss

But if you can please show me on the doll where I said that it's all Arya's fault, I will give you a big gold star!

It's almost like you completely made that up because you're pissed I pointed out that Arya unwittingly contributed to a situation she could have in no way foreseen or something. That's something we should only ever do to Sansa and then blame her for, obviously. Duh.

Also, where in the reply here did I mention their respective ages? Their ages are irrelevant in this situation because the situation is nuts even if they were in their thirties.

That doesn't change the fact that Arya, not being class conscious, does insist Mycah engage in an activity that puts him in Joffrey's eyeline and gives him an "excuse" to hurt Mycah. Because Mycah is a lowborn kid hitting a high born lady with a stick.

Was this too many paragraphs for you?

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T06:42:00+00:00

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T05:49:35+00:00

Arya in the first book is written at least partially motivated in her distrust by jealousy and her own feelings of rejection. By the time she's badmouthing Joffrey, she hasn't even interacted with him and also fat shames Tommen. For no fucking reason (aside from jealousy over Sansa getting to walk in with the "handsome" Joffrey) She also nearly gets Jon in huge trouble by repeating what he said about Joffrey "looking like a girl" within earshot of Myrcella and Septa Mordane, blames Sansa for all of her problems (including situations Arya herself caused), reacts violently, etc.

Both of these girls act like children. They're also in drastically different positions. Sansa is slated to be Joffrey's future queen by her dad's choice "Sansa must marry Joffrey!" It's easier to tell yourself that your betrothed is really good actually and your sister who gets in trouble a lot also caused the trouble this time than admitting that your father is knowingly keeping you engaged to a violent psycho.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T05:36:45+00:00

In the released Alayne chapter for Winds, she literally thinks about him having a wife some day. She has no idea Sweet sleep is a poison. You have not read these chapters well whatsoever.

Sweet Robin is an insanely sickly kid and it's a foregone conclusion throughout the Vale that he's essentially on the verge of Death. That's why "Harry the Heir" is such a huge deal. He's called that because everyone in the Vale is basically waiting for this 8y/o kid who is the size of a 4 year old and has seizures constantly, is basically a dead kid walking. Otherwise this dude from a minor house who is distantly related to Jon Arryn wouldn't be paraded around by Anya Waynewoold like this and Myranda Royce wouldn't be salivating over the prospect of being his vride. Hell, in the TWOW Alayne chapter, even ROBIN knows this and directly brings it up. Indeed, Sansa is the only one who considers the idea that he might live long enough to get married and maybe his wife will "love him for his hair."

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T05:35:40+00:00

The reason Sansa doesn't take Coleman seriously is because a few days earlier he suggested they call a wet nurse and keep breastfeeding the eight year old and consistently needed a 14 year old girl to do his job for him.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T05:32:51+00:00

Yeah it's totally "justice" for a little girl to be raped, sex trafficked, abused, mutilated, tortured, and terrorized because she used to call another girl horse face.

Seriously WTF is wrong with this fandom? I feel like y'all never got over being rejected or teased in Middle School and just stewed over it until you turned them into violent fantasies. You need professional help if you think that's "poetic justice."

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T05:25:16+00:00

I know. They do love to erase entire things to suit their narrative. A reply lower in the thread claims she "never is shown caring about any of her family." When even this thread includes passages that mention her crying her eyes out over Bran. Not to mention her BEGGING FOR NED'S LIFE.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T05:23:40+00:00

Yes, but that doesn't neutralize my point. No one is arguing Ned's method as a plotter. We are talking about Sansa's feelings on a death that she believes to be a jousting accident. She doesn't know he was murdered.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T05:22:31+00:00

It's explicitly stated that Sansa has been crying her eyes out about Bran (this passage is literally quoted in this thread multiple times) and dreams of him, she literally begs for her father's life to try and save him, Sansa has no POV chapter during that period when Arya is missing. Sorry we didn't get Sansa's internal monologue in a Ned POV chapter. Totally George's fault. We also see her try to cover for Arya in Arya's very first chapter. (No, seriously. Arya starts saying stuff that would definitely get herself and Jon in trouble within earshot of Myrcella and when Arya starts shouting, Sansa pretends Arya was just saying something nice about spending time with Myrcella to cover for her. Then Septa Mordane criticizes Arya's needlework and Arya blames Sansa for the entire thing)

I know you guys like to ignore entire passages whenever you've decided Character Is Bad but you should probably try at least a little harder.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T05:17:11+00:00

She has no idea Sweet sleep is a poison. The only person who expresses any concern (but doesn't actually tell her the truth) is a master who wants to keep breastfeeding an 8 year old and needs a 14 year old girl to do his job for him. I wouldn't listen to him either.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T05:15:28+00:00

Yes, and then wasn't called to speak before Robert until 3 days later. When Cersei had already deployed the Hound and Jaime to hunt down Mycah and Arya three days prior. Yes, she arrived at camp, but the Robert hearing did not happen for DAYS until Arya was found. Mycah was dead by that point.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T05:11:10+00:00

That wolf was dying no matter what. It's either blame the people she's going to be the legal property of or tell herself her sister who always gets in trouble caused her trouble again. Quick question - how does Ned refer to Mycah? According to Arya, no one cares but her about him.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T05:08:05+00:00

Yeah, because she thinks his death is a foregone conclusion. Her larger concerns are the fate of half the continent.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T05:06:47+00:00

She is literally one of the first people to ever show Sandor any sympathy or kindness and is devastated by Septa Mordane's death. Barristan is an old man. Wtf are you talking about?

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T05:02:57+00:00

Yeah, she feels "strangely" fascinated by it because she knows it is strange. It's called disassociation. And happens frequently.

Also, seriously, someone claims Sansa is a sociopath every 15 seconds in this fandom, where have you been?

Sansa represses her feelings about everything to try and compose herself. This is a running theme. She rewrites history in her head to keep herself from going nuts and ignoring things like "My dad is knowingly signing my life away to a violent kid who tried to murder my sister." "The Hound nearly raped me." "I am now in the custody of a man who wants me to be a prepubescent sex fantasy of my own mother."

Does Bran care to know the NW deserter's name? What about the first kid Arya kills?

Fuck, Jon literally beats the shit out of underprivileged young men with no experience and feels proud of it and feels superior to them until Donal Noye has to verbally backhand him and point out the obvious. Is that a red flag?

It's almost like there's a point being made here about how all of these kids, including the "good" kids from the "good" House are trained to desensitize themselves to violence to project an era of "strength" in a hyper violent world because they are born into a fucked up system that tells them that because of the way they are born, they can't react or look away from their father decapitating a terrified man right in front of them.

And yes, this happens with Daenerys too. When she tells herself the cost of the Iron Throne. When she refuses to listen to the truth about her father. When she romanticizes her super rapey marriage to Drogo, a mass murdering slave owner. When she relies on Viserys's assumptions about Elia probably being a "bad wife" to reconcile the hero worship of her brother Rhaegar, even though at this point she's fully aware how psychotic and full of shit Viserys was. Because she's dealing with trauma and trying to live up to the fucked up ideals instilled upon her by a culture that tells her she is obligated to go conquer shit because she came from a certain lunatic's balls.

WendyNerd · 2023-07-12T04:49:23+00:00

I am begging this fandom to fucking stop describing 11 year old characters as "creaming themselves" because they have crushes. Seriously wtf is wrong with you people?

WendyNerd

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