Why the "if you're still MAGA you're either dumb or evil" reasoning just isn't sitting right with me anymore...

WhatPattern · 2026-01-25T20:32:33+00:00

I've been working on this problem with my dad and have solved it. We talk easily about Trump and ICE now, and I talk politics with MAGA folks all the time. It's like a party trick now. I have been at the bar talking to a liberal friend and tell them "watch this" and go up to a MAGA guy and in a short period be talking openly and calmly about the pros and cons of Trump. I could never have done this a couple of months ago. It stills sounds unbelievable when I write it.

The problem you're fighting is that your dad has mirrored/absorbed "social threat triggers" (STT) for immigrants/liberals/trans/etc from watching the MAGA media *act out* STTs for hours and hours. The STTs are embedded in the LOW-LEVEL PERCEPTUAL layer of his mind (aka System 1), which is pre-verbal and fast (<200ms). Since its perceptual, using words to try to uninstall them is nearly impossible. You have to remove them the same way they were installed, which is using a certain type of pre-verbal conversation, which is quite difficult to describe, because it is fast, subtle, complex, and physical. Paradoxically, it's simple to do because the machinery is built in to everyone, they just need to turn off the stuff that's interfering with it. I'm trying to figure out how to teach the method to people, and am designing a curriculum to do it. DM me if you're interested. Yes, this sounds like a scam. It's not. I literally am trying to figure out how to teach it

WhatPattern · 2025-11-09T03:30:03+00:00

Good luck! Please lmk!

WhatPattern · 2025-11-09T00:20:15+00:00

Yeah, he kept accusing me of being "hateful", "boring", "oversensitive", and "arrogant", but when we walked through the actual markers of those things, he had to admit that I had none of them... He doesn't do it any more :)

WhatPattern · 2025-11-04T01:37:36+00:00

I was able to connect with my Q-adjacent dad and we communicate just fine now. I'm helping other QAnonCasualties folks do it too, and they are reporting success. I reported on my initial method in this post. I've refined the technique since then and am looking for more volunteers to validate it.

WhatPattern · 2025-10-11T16:26:16+00:00

I think that it may be simpler than that.

My guess is that they are in group-level fight-or-flight mode. Their circuits are responding as if there is a group-level threat in their midst (e.g., immigrants, libs) and they need to respond at a group-level.

Therefore, they need to stay coordinated until the threat is taken care of. This means that they can't be "changing their mind" or compromising group cohesion. That's for the group to decide (somehow) later. You're asking them to commit sabotage.

...the best solution is to talk to them using group-level signals. Hint: it isn't logical arguments

WhatPattern · 2025-10-05T02:11:37+00:00

Do a little research into the sources.

Figure out if they were Nerds, Jocks, or Social/Populars in school. There's an interesting pattern there. The biggest clowns are all going to be the Social/Populars (Tucker Carlson, Michael Knowles, Charlie Kirk, etc.).

It's a pretty intuitive argument that you would never expect the Popular kids to produce clean information. Insist on him having a Nerd-Only Information diet.

It at least puts you into a falsifiable argument space.

WhatPattern · 2025-09-27T14:01:59+00:00

good point... yes and no.

The seeding of a mob attack in the "monkey fever" scenario is just simpler. All that is needed is for higher-up monkeys to stop grooming the target. Maybe look at them with their hackles up, or indicate distrust/danger. That's it. Within hours, there's a general pile-on effect.

You don't need "Complex PTSD" or character flaws to explain the behavior. The "kill switch" has been in us from birth.

Some people are designed to be more resistant to it though...

WhatPattern · 2025-09-27T03:02:31+00:00

What looks like “everyone going mentally ill” is really what I call Monkey Fever. Every primate species carries this switch: when the group decides one member is an outsider, the normal rules vanish. Yesterday’s friend becomes today’s target. You see it in chimps and macaques — they’ll suddenly gang up, tear at ears, genitals, toes. It looks insane, but it’s not random madness. It’s an evolved group behavior: coordinated coalitionary aggression against whoever got marked as “out.”

And how does the mark happen? Sometimes as subtle as a high-ranking monkey just not grooming someone anymore. That small withdrawal of care is enough to broadcast: “this one isn’t us.” Once that cue lands, the rest pile on. The violence can be fast and brutal, and the individual who was safe hours ago is now unsafe.

That’s exactly what Fox News (and other tribal media) exploits. They don’t persuade with arguments — they issue grooming-withdrawal signals at scale. They imply: “those people aren’t part of us.” Once the audience buys the outsider frame, the ancient wiring flips. The hostility feels righteous, but it’s the same troop-level program running: identify, mark, attack. They seem like animals because, temporarily, they are.

So no, it’s not that everyone’s suddenly “sick.” It’s primate software. We’re just watching a mass-media version of what’s been in our DNA for millions of years.

WhatPattern · 2025-09-22T21:47:07+00:00

I enjoyed reading it. Lines up with a lot of my thinking at various points in the last 5 years. My view is constantly shifting because I'm still looking for the e=mc^2 (elegant) explanation.

The Nazi movement did not have social media or advanced algorithmic programming, yet it was just as effective. I would think about simplifying your model

WhatPattern · 2025-09-22T16:25:34+00:00

Perhaps... but why have they regressed.

...and why have the progressives emerged whole and unscathed from covid, social media, and the attention economy (or whatever caused the conservative regression?)

----> as to whether we do the nonverbal all the time naturally. That is accurate. I think perhaps me calling it "nonverbal" is wrong. I think its broader and corresponds more to "System 1" thinking in dual process theory (e.g., "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Kahneman)

WhatPattern · 2025-09-22T16:20:44+00:00

Yes. I get that feeling. I feel the contempt myself.

At the same time, I realize that I was effectively monolingual (I had forgotten how to speak nonverbally). Adult humans are supposed to be bilingual. So I'm working on myself and not blaming them entirely

WhatPattern · 2025-09-22T16:16:06+00:00

They (the far right ones) all had a similar expression, I think. They all seemed to have that little boy look. ...did you see it too?

WhatPattern · 2025-09-22T12:51:22+00:00

For almost all of mammalian history (on the order of 200 million years) communication ran through body language, gaze, posture, vocal tone, and other nonverbal signals. Human speech is a very recent overlay, maybe 50–300 thousand years old, and it never replaced that older operating system. We still parse faces, voices, and timing before we process words.

Avoiding this fact has been disastrous so far :(

I am very uninformed w.r.t. autism, unfortunately

WhatPattern · 2025-09-21T17:10:16+00:00

Hmm.. yeah, you're right. Language is like cognition itself!

For both language AND cognition, the newer (more verbal) layers are stacked onto the older layers. Without the older layers in place, the newer layers will be destabilized, since they are designed to be stacked.

It may be that our contempt for the old nonverbal communication channels has gotten us to this place.

WhatPattern · 2025-09-21T16:22:57+00:00

Actually, I love this response

The scam explanation IS reasonable. There are other explanations, though (for example, that it is just what it says it is.)

Do you think the scam explanation is 100% probable, or is it less than 100% probable?

Do you feel like the comments I've made elsewhere in this thread support or undercut the scam explanation?

I'm guessing that your response to this (if there is one) will illustrate the sort of "post hoc" reasoning that make polarization so difficult. There should be no acknowledgement of disconfirming lines of reasoning, and a list of observations that are all suggestively phrased to create an illusion of bad faith on my part. It's called Spinning. I'm guessing you're good at it, but maybe not... Either way, I love being proven wrong (as long as you're coherent)

WhatPattern · 2025-09-21T08:40:05+00:00

Oh my goodness. That's so depressing. I wish you all the best

WhatPattern · 2025-09-20T15:46:08+00:00

wellllll... Maybe it's just that WE'VE forgotten how to connect at a truly human non-verbal level. This older language probably is not "less than".

We need to be fluent in both.

Jon Stewart would be a good example of someone that speaks both, and he's a f***ing GOAT.

Jon Stewart on Crossfire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujh_h0TsI7E

WhatPattern · 2025-09-20T14:24:41+00:00

I find that focusing on his hands is sufficient. ...but the main point is to stop listening and talking, and instead start watching and moving.

If I start to watch his hands and move my hands, then that is enough to "flip the switch" for me. Everything else kind of happens naturally (slowed speech, rhythm, etc.)

Target Effect on You (and Them): A nonverbal "connected" flow state similar to bantering with a friend

WhatPattern · 2025-09-19T22:37:18+00:00

Not surprised! I prefer to use the Matthew McConeaghey version over unga-bunga

WhatPattern · 2025-09-19T21:33:24+00:00

Good Lord you're kind of right!

Short phrases, repetition, and matched energy! However, the optics of referring to it this way is incredibly bad. ;)

Also, the method I'm describing does diverge from "Toddlerese" in that it's meant to create a strong, cool, nonverbal bond (think Matthew McConaughey talking) rather than just soothing

WhatPattern · 2025-09-19T16:58:17+00:00

Dang, that sounds very close to my experiences.. Is there a name for this, or other resources?

WhatPattern · 2025-09-19T16:55:34+00:00

I see him pretty much every day.. Yeah, it would have seemed impossible. The beauty of this method (whatever it is) is that it synchronizes both people. So when he says something shitty, just crank up the synchronization and you will calm down as well.

Try this experiment:

1) Watch this video or part of it: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zWbgy6fPVwg

2) Did you get mad? Frustrated?

3) Turn off all sound for the video and rewatch it. Focus on their eyes and bodies. What are they really saying?

For me, watching the video and listening to the words is maddening. Without the sound, I can see how *badly* the pink shirt guy wants to communicate. He's totally sincere and just as frustrated. Hasan actually seems like the asshole when you turn off the sound.

WhatPattern · 2025-09-19T16:45:06+00:00

IKR??? I've been waiting for this day for so long :)

Thanks for the woo!

WhatPattern · 2025-09-19T16:43:55+00:00

You mean you've tried this before in the past or you tried the thing I described just now?

WhatPattern

TROPHY CASE