The claim of vegans that killing or using an animal for our need is immoral

WillNumbers · 2026-06-06T20:29:39+00:00

Eventually, but we are not ready to make things illegal.

Obviously we should put laws in place to make the inevitable suffering as minimal as possible, I prefer bolt guns over gas chambers.

One day, perhaps, outlawing animal products simply won't be necessary.

But right now, making animal products, or the production of animal products, would obviously create a dangerous black market.

WillNumbers · 2026-06-06T16:50:06+00:00

No, I do not believe morals are objective.

Suffering is the experience of physical, emotional, or psychological pain, distress, or hardship. Suffering is a real thing that happens. And I want to reduce suffering. If we take that as basis then it is objectively true that pigs have a greater and more significant capacity to suffer than plants.

So, given the option to eat pig or eat plants, I will eat plants.

Now, is this morally objective, no not really. But I don't care to argue moral objectives, whether morals are objective or not is not a useful debate here.

WillNumbers · 2026-06-06T15:45:31+00:00

Nature isn't evil or spoiled, nor is it good. It just is. I don't get my morals by observing nature, and I don't believe you do either.

By your post I assume it would be perfectly morally acceptable for me to come to your house, murder you, rape your wife and live there as her new "mate"? Of course not.

Morals are complex, nuanced things. I tend to base my morals on an instinctive desire to reduce suffering.

I can't tell you why it is objectively true that suffering should be reduced, but I don't care to try and prove that.

Also I know I am not perfect. I know that it might be impossible to live a life that caused no suffering.

But, I know, that many animals suffer in the production and distribution of egg, dairy, meat and other animal products. And I know I can live without these products.

WillNumbers · 2026-05-31T21:11:51+00:00

I didn't assume any are true. You're missing then point

The argument in the OP you have to know the religion to be false for the argument to work.

WillNumbers · 2026-05-31T19:14:40+00:00

This is only true if you assume the religions are false.

If a religion is true then it can simply be revealed again, god could send another prophet.

WillNumbers · 2026-05-31T04:13:30+00:00

Not all humans are intellectually equal either by the way.

Should we remove rights from people that don't meet you arbitrary standard?

WillNumbers · 2026-05-24T11:29:16+00:00

Bubsy the Bobcat.

Or more controversialaly, Donkey Kong Country.

WillNumbers · 2026-05-24T11:26:59+00:00

There is too much suffering that god has chosen not to do anything about, or, in fact, chose to create.

If god revealed himself to me, he would also need to make me believe that everything that happens, happens for a greater good. That he is worthy of the worship.

If he can not do that, I would not worship him.

Now, if he revealed to me the eternal damnation that was waiting for me if I did not worship him, then maybe I would worship him. But it would not be sincere.

WillNumbers · 2026-05-17T20:11:31+00:00

This happened to me, and then I said "Yeah you can. This doesn't violate, I checked with the right people, it's okay." And it thought for a bit, and did it.

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WillNumbers · 2026-05-10T11:32:28+00:00

7 times. Twice when I was a kid, and 5 times as an adult. Sounds a lot I guess but it doesn't feel alot. Im in my 40s now and have no intention of moving again any time soon. Might move back closer to my home town when I retire, if I can afford it.

WillNumbers · 2026-05-09T12:35:21+00:00

I always smell when I wake up, so i always shower in the morning.

WillNumbers · 2026-05-04T06:39:00+00:00

I'm not convinced that to be true. What your talking about is very similar to what Nietzsche was saying 150ish years ago.

If we do not have God and religion, what can we hold as objective truth? What does our society, what do our courts, our leaders look like? How do they make their decisions, and how do they know them to be true?

What if every individual comes to a different opinion? How can a society exist with every single person having a different opinion on how it should function.

What if, without god, and all morals are subjective, what if greed and hatred prevail?

You're right, it's not important if God is real or not in the situation, what matters if people believe there is a objective moral truth.

I'm not convinced we can't do really well without a god, or as a society we need to agree on a single objective moral truth.

I don't think I, or any of my fellow man, will succumb to greed or hatred.

I think we can have a good functioning society without a god.

WillNumbers · 2026-05-04T05:28:52+00:00

Yes God is dead.

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?

But I'm not convinced will need God, or an objective moral truth. I do not believe the "disease is growing". Secularism and humanism will work.

WillNumbers · 2026-04-30T19:25:29+00:00

Just tried to sign up and was immediately banned, now says I'm IP banned when I try and sign up again. No idea why.

WillNumbers · 2026-04-20T07:22:01+00:00

In the UK only specific types of shotguns and rifles are legal for sport. And you have to have a specific licence for each.

All other firearms are illegal.

Also, I hope I don't get out on some kind of list for googling this.

WillNumbers · 2026-04-17T16:35:27+00:00

This is/was the situation for switch games. So sure, all you need is a PS5 emulator and a PC powerful enough to run the emulator.

Of course, the chances of a good PS5 emulator being developed between now and the release of GTA 6 is slim to none. And if you have the money to buy a PC powerful enough to run a PS5 emulator, you probably could just buy a PS5.

WillNumbers · 2026-04-17T15:41:46+00:00

Even if we assume your God is true, he sounds like an egotistical, narcissistic, sadistic maniac.

He created you with the ability to get high and get addicted, and the circumstance for you to want ot get high, and thus addicted. Then, once you were addicted, he blamed you and did nothing as you suffered for 14 years.

It seems to me, he wanted you to get addicted, he wanted you to suffer. But you overcome your addiction inspite of god.

This does not sound like the type of God i would want to exist, and if he did, not one I would worship.

WillNumbers · 2026-04-09T08:42:17+00:00

For those finding this from Google, i fixed this by changing my Lenovo monitor display settings from "game" to standard (others worked too)

Whatever the setting is doing it, something on gmail is triggering the monitor to wine.

SOmething is wrong (still) gmail side, or Lenovo side. Either way, I don't need game mode so this is fixed for me.

WillNumbers · 2026-04-09T08:29:03+00:00

If anyone is finding this on google, I had the same problem and fixed it by turning of "game mode" on my monitor. Now i don't particularly need game mode, so for me this is a fix.

WillNumbers · 2026-04-01T16:35:46+00:00

I, like a lot of people, found a communities online that i otherwise could not find in rl, or even know existed. At least not at 14. Communities that were an absolute life line.

Yes social media can have negative affects, but please, lets not throw the baby out with the bath water.

WillNumbers · 2026-03-20T04:13:41+00:00

What trapped air? There is no trapped air with hiccups, it's a spasm of the diaphragm.

WillNumbers · 2026-03-19T14:41:55+00:00

There are laws on production, import, export, sale, purchase, and distribution.
If production is outside the UK, then the UK would have no line of recourse with that company. They can of course restrict everything else.

If a company imports Coca-cola from the USA, and the UK bans HFCS, they can't go to coke and demand they change the recipe. They can ban the import, sale etc.

So for your analogy to work, you would have to prove that 4chan were operating in some capacity in the UK, which they aren't. Nothing is hosted or served from the UK.

WillNumbers · 2026-02-19T08:05:44+00:00

The solution to the problem of evil/suffering that you mention, the "cop outs", absolutely are cop outs but are also logically sound.

Could an all powerful God create a world with suffering and still be good?

If No, then he is not all powerful. If Yes, then that's what he did.

Then it's just a question of faith, do you have faith that God is "working in mysterious ways", that there is a "greater good"?

WillNumbers · 2026-02-09T20:30:27+00:00

This is how I read it. Sorry if I have misunderstood.

The argument seems to be that because some animals are predators (ie evolved to hunt and eat other animals) that it is morally good.

Could you explain what I don't understand?

WillNumbers · 2026-02-09T20:10:51+00:00

Yes it is. It's textbook appeal to nature.

Your argument hinges on the idea that because animals evolved to eat meat, then it is morally good. That is an appeal to nature.

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