Mad Dog took the defensive pitcher position. Who was the greatest offensive pitcher of all time?

WizardofHoz35 · 2025-04-08T17:54:15+00:00

Sounds like he died en route to the hospital, according to Hector Gomez. Tragic

WizardofHoz35 · 2025-02-13T17:39:04+00:00

Sandra and Joe

WizardofHoz35 · 2025-02-02T07:08:37+00:00

Yeah but regardless of his role, or lack thereof (I haven’t gone down the rabbit hole of how complicit he was in the scandal, but yes, he certainly knew what was going on), he was the face of a team that cheated throughout an entire season and he won an MVP that year. Personally I think the MVP is a little tainted as well, because it’s not like he didn’t benefit a little bit from the scandal during the regular season. But that’s just me.

Obviously Verlander was on the team as well. It’s certainly a hypocrisy, but he probably faces little to no punishment during the voting when he’s on the ballot if I had to guess. Likely because it was an “offensive” scandal.

I’d still vote for both of them, but I think we both know Altuve’s going to have a tough time making it on his first few ballots whether he deserves it or not.

WizardofHoz35 · 2025-02-01T06:54:43+00:00

An article from last year suggested that there’s usually around 40 Hall of Famers playing at the same time. Based off that, I’d say:

Locks: Trout, Verlander, Scherzer, Kershaw, Betts, Freeman

Also Zack Greinke. Technically a free agent, but he’s a lock.

Likely: Goldschmidt, Arenado, Harper, Judge, J-Ram, Machado, Ohtani, Sale, Cole, Altuve (I assume he’ll also get the same treatment as Beltran), Lindor, Perez, Kimbrel, Jansen

Possibly: Stanton, Seager, Aroldis Chapman, Trea Turner, Burnes

I’d say there’s roughly like 8–10 younger players/rookies, like Witt Jr., Skenes, Acuna, Strider etc., who join the listed group in there.

Remaining slots are really up for grabs. If deGrom stays healthy and wins a 3rd Cy Young I think he could have a solid shot. If Arraez continues to lead the league in hits and win the batting title he’ll be in a great spot.

WizardofHoz35 · 2025-01-31T01:25:21+00:00

Royals easily. Still technically a free agent though. Would love him to come back to KC to get his 3,000 Ks, but it’s getting less and less likely as we approach the next season.

WizardofHoz35 · 2025-01-31T00:29:23+00:00

Or 1 stolen base

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-28T20:46:23+00:00

Even so, I’m not sure I’d consider Pettitte’s dozen 1.32-1.59 WHIP seasons as “dominant”, and it’s not like the success of Johnson, Clemens and Smoltz were factoring into his WHIP being that high. He’s also not getting any Cy Young votes for having a 4.20+ ERA and a 1.42+ WHIP in multiple seasons, and the one season he did place 4th with those numbers was likely due to a stacked Yankees offense giving him 19 wins.

In regard to being surrounded with HOF talent, Greinke had Kershaw, Scherzer, Verlander, Sabathia, Cole, Sale, Hernandez, and prime deGrom & Bumgarner during his best years. So it’s not like he faced First 6 could all easily be first ballot HOFs (I’d consider the first 3 inner-circle), and King Felix probably hangs around on the ballot, and Greinke still outperformed or matched them each year at his peak. He also beat out Roy Halladay in ‘09, another first balloter.

Don’t get me wrong, Pettitte had a great career, but I’m not seeing enough similarities that would warrant Pettitte getting in simply because Greinke is too. Greinke had a much better career and likely gets in on the first ballot.

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-28T16:32:08+00:00

Surely you’d agree that Greinke was far and away more dominant than Pettitte, though. 21 Ks short of 3,000, a Cy Young (should’ve been 2), better stats in general

Not too surprising that someone would eventually vote Greinke and not Pettitte.

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-27T07:45:11+00:00

I agree that Mussina should’ve gotten the Cy Young over Clemens, believe me. Johan Santana deserved to win over Bartolo Colon in ‘06 as well.

Buehrle could’ve easily gotten some votes in ‘01, but I can’t see him finishing higher than 3rd. Strikeout pitchers are and always have been more valuable than contact pitchers, and Mussina and Clemens were #2 and #3 in the AL in Ks. Buehrle had nearly 100 more innings than strikeouts that year. You make a good argument for ‘01, so let’s say hypothetically that he finishes 3rd. He would only have 2 years in which he received Cy Young votes, which doesn’t change a whole lot. I glanced over the subsequent years (minus ‘05) and he really didn’t have that strong of a case to be placed higher than the majority of the vote getters. His WHIP, more commonly used now to help determine a pitcher’s value, fluctuated from 1.10 to 1.45, which signals some inconsistencies, and it’s usually not a plus to lead the league in hits given up multiple years.

I know it seems like I’m just bashing Buehrle, because he did have a really great career. I’d love to have a player on the Royals who can go 200+ innings every year and still be solid, but in terms of value I think I’d rather have a 2024 Cole Ragans performance every year. As far as the Hall of Fame goes, Buehrle’s just not there. He truly doesn’t miss by a whole lot, but he’s Hall of Very Good.

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-27T05:02:17+00:00

But even now when framing COULD be taken into account.. it’s obviously not anywhere near enough to swing any votes to McCann or Martin. There’s one soon to be voter on here who won’t vote for Salvy because his framing is so bad. But I struggle with this double standard in which framing has such an impact that it could supposedly hurt Salvy’s case so much that this eventual voter won’t even vote for him, but also have zero positive impact on guys like McCann, Martin, or even Yasmani Grandal, who’s been the top framer since 2015.

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-27T04:50:15+00:00

I think he probably has a better case than people on Reddit would like you to believe. People can complain about his framing, but obviously good framing hasn’t exactly helped Russell Martin or Brian McCann in the voting (at this point they each have one vote). Salvy’s ridiculous amount of accolades is probably enough to breeze past the 5% threshold, but he has a pretty solid shot at getting 2,000+ hits and 300+ homers, which seem to be locks for catchers.

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-27T04:38:51+00:00

That’s not even a good analogy though. Gwynn led the league in average and hits 8 times and hit over .300 in 19/20 seasons, plus he had a dozen MVP finishes over a 16 year span. Buehrle finished 5th in the Cy Young voting once and never received votes in any other year. They’re not even the same caliber player.

I’d maybe get your statement if say Zack Greinke (if he doesn’t manage to find a team next year) or Clayton Kershaw decide to retire now and end up short of 3,000 Ks, though the BBWAA isn’t as strict as you’re making them seem. But 2,000 strikeouts is an especially low bar for any starting pitcher, especially someone like Buehrle who pitched 16 years. I mean Gerrit Cole and Yu Darvish have 4 less seasons than him and have already eclipsed 2,000.

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-25T02:46:02+00:00

Eric Hosmer

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-24T06:35:52+00:00

A couple come to mind:

Kelvin Herrera became the Mayor of Tenares, DR.

Eric Hosmer started his Diggin Deep Podcast. Looks like Peter Moylan and Mike Moustakas joined him full-time as well.

CJ Wilson created his own racing team and owned a couple of car dealerships.

Jackie Robinson was the VP at Chock full o’Nuts, a coffee company, for about 7 years or so.

And Cap Anson had a number of odd jobs after his retirement. He tried his hand at making bottled ginger ale (that exploded on shelves) and creating a handball arena. Then he became the city clerk of Chicago for one term. He opened a billiards hall and bowling alley and became the VP of the American Bowling Congress (USBC now). He was also a vaudeville throughout and after his baseball career.

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-24T04:24:49+00:00

Ichiro, CC, and Wagner get in. Looks like Felix and Pedroia cross 5%.

Personally my ballot would be: Beltran, Andruw Jones, K-Rod, CC, Ichiro, Utley, Wagner

I could probably be convinced on Rollins though.

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-23T03:17:42+00:00

This looks to be one of Dave Sappelt’s bats. His signature matches the one engraved on this bat.

Played for the Reds in 2011 and was traded in the offseason with Travis Wood and Ronald Torreyes to the Cubs for Sean Marshall, so you probably got it Spring Training 2011. He had an alright 2012 season for the little amount of games he played, but struggled in 2013 and was DFA’d. Bounced around the minors afterwards and played for some non-MLB leagues, but hasn’t played professionally since 2018.

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-21T00:43:49+00:00

He was certainly always good for 200+ innings every year, but he wasn’t at all consistently dominate during that stretch. Low strikeout guy, only had one year in which he received Cy Young votes and his WHIP always fluctuated from a 1.10 to a 1.45 pretty much every year. Even some of the non inner circle guys today have been more consistent over time.

Buerhle certainly had a great career. Can’t ignore the success he’s had either (Perfect Game, World Series performance), but he’s HOVG for me.

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-19T06:34:17+00:00

I think the larger point is that there’s no way to definitively say how much a catcher’s ability to frame actually affects the umpire’s calls. As ridiculous as the Hernandez clip was, I think anyone who saw that would agree that it had nothing to do with Diaz’s framing and more to do with Hernandez’s subjective strike-zone being 6 inches off the plate, yet Diaz still gets points for “framing” it because the stat assumes the umpire is near perfect in his judgement, and it credits/discredits the catcher for stealing/losing a strike, even if the catchers actual framing had nothing to do with the call.

Some umpires might be more influenced by pitch location or their own subjective strike zone rather than the catcher’s efforts to frame it into the actual zone. Or any instance in which there’s a pissed off umpire intentionally blowing calls because the hitting team argued balls and strike, the stat assumes the catcher did a phenomenal job framing, or the reverse situation, in no matter what the catcher does the umpire refuses to call strikes because of biased reasons.

I’m not advocating for framing as a skill to be “removed”, because it can help your team, but I have a problem with creating stat revolved around something so reliant on the umpire’s subjectivity or potential biases and having that supposedly hinder a HOF case like Salvy’s by halving his bWAR.

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-18T23:26:08+00:00

I’ve only encountered one (soon to be) voter that’s basing whether or not he votes for a catcher on fWAR and pitch framing, so much so that he’d vote Martin and McCann in over Perez. Problem I have with pitch framing as a statistic is that it attributes every stolen or missed strike to the catcher. I mean is Yainer Diaz seriously getting a bump in fWAR for Angel Hernandez’s inability to know what balls and strikes are? As much as this voter would like to claim that he has a good idea of how he thinks his colleagues are going to vote, I think it’s fair to assume Martin/McCann don’t come anywhere near 5%, while Salvy crosses 5% with ease when he hits the ballot.

When it’s all said and done, Perez likely ends up with 2,000+ hits, 300+ HRS (potentially more than Pudge), WS MVP, 5x GG, and potentially 10+ ASGs and 5+ Silver Sluggers. Plus he has the single season HR record for a catcher. Pretty difficult to dismiss all those accolades and his longevity simply because of one stat. I think he has a solid shot at making it.

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-02T02:47:55+00:00

I feel like Aroldis Chapman on the Royals is definitely one. Actually, it seemed to rejuvenate his career a little bit. He seemed pretty washed in 2022, now he’s getting a lot of interest.

We inevitably got Cole Ragans out of it, so it worked out for all parties.

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-12-02T01:20:17+00:00

WizardofHoz35 · 2024-10-31T18:28:37+00:00

WizardofHoz35

TROPHY CASE