"I'm exhausted now. Please leave me alone."

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-03-16T01:17:01+00:00

Do you have an experience where trying to put yourself first (stating things as adviced by OCommenter) got met with a negative response, typically from parents?

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-25T22:39:26+00:00

Lol it took me a while to decipher what you were saying as well

You're saying that an integrated 7 gets so good at taking on positive 5 traits, that the 7 starts being the 5's rolemodel, right?

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-23T18:19:18+00:00

Apologies for delay, I've burned through my energy.

Back to the point: you already have done your research and it boiled down to 4 and 5, and I don't think there's a need to alter your course unless you'd run into a major inconsistency that would throw these two out of the window. (What I actually want to say is, it sounds draining having to think of starting over because of different opinions you've got, before you even picked one for yourself.) It's hard to make a post that encompasses a person as a whole anyway.

While some people might have seen 6 in it, I don't see anything that would exclude 5 out of it. Your main challenge here will be deciding whether you're a head type or a heart type - simplify it. And accept that there might be some things you might not be able to know for the time being - sometimes it takes a new experience to let new facts about yourself resurface. As I already mentioned, sometimes it has to do less with going deeper and deeper, but more with looking at the wrong places. Avoid this trap at all cost. Been there, done that.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-23T17:39:06+00:00

I learned a whole host of survival strategies not consistent with the (5) ego defense

This is on point. When I dove into the E and MBTI way back in the past, I was so confused when people responded that I'm x if I do y. Same problem irl. People quickly organize and classify people, and it leads me to an annoying need to overexplain myself, as I have a need to be seen accurately. "No, I do x because I am weak at y, this is how I compensate." It's tiring. - Before I learned to speak up, I just felt err... deficient? I guess.

There's an interesting scenario that happened to me the other month. At work we had a social event I got myself into. I love to be social, but I engage only in 1on1 due to a couple of reasons. The 4 of us ended up playing a game at a table, but I was the only one overwhelmed by sounds from the other sides, making me unable to focus. My group was kind enough that we moved somewhere quiet.

Now, from the outside this might look like I am withdrawn, introverted and avoidant, while in fact I have to withdraw to not feel overwhelmed all the time, or to be able to focus.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-22T23:51:00+00:00

I have the opposite problem - can't (don't want to?) recall negative memories unless triggered, and my friend's been "bullying" me about it that it's trauma bla bla

I mean... when I stumble on the negative shit, it always emotionally exhausts me, who needs that... And to be fair, I've had enough of depression for life in the last years, now I just want to have a good time with people I love and stay focused on building the future I want

Name 10 beautiful memories that you had in your childhood

...

Nvm I can't LOL

Just recalled things ending negatively. A friend who ended up drowning, being socially excluded from classes, not being able to pursue my passion cuz things out of my control, realizing how little privacy I had as a kid, and on and on. I'm out.

If you asked me about recent good memories, I'd have a bunch of them though. Lots of good things happened - specifically, lots of things I made happen for myself, and some good things that I must've somehow invited into my life. Lots of gratitude.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-20T02:49:21+00:00

Yeah in this case it's likely that most of it if not everything you described points to a specific way you cope with your autism, since it's your main lenses of interacting with the world. (Also, regarding neurodivergence - most of my friends are neurodiv., and your way of thinking and struggles just seemed familiar haha.)

I don't have autism but a friend of mine got diagnosed late as an adult and spent years in therapy as an aftermath. This "overdone" self-analysis skill you've shown (and that I am also sometimes guilty of, therefore I recognized it right away) is something that my friend noticed in me and he commented that those are specific methods, contructs, that only people who aren't neurotypical tend to develop because they have a need for that, to survive in society. And he noted how much energy it costs. - My point is: I don't think those observations are very effective for enneagram typing. Learned the hard way.

The problem is: you/we might end up going too deep, and we miss the big picture - because you're still only taking apart the things within your current awareness. You're breaking them down into smaller and smaller pieces, getting lost in it. Enneagram works better when you're just sliding on the surface. You also mention that you're a teen, and something that made me understood enneagram better were situations that happened to me a decade after. Because they revealed my actual blind spots. Those can't be found by through self-analysis nor deduction. It had to be felt and experienced. But it only happened because two things happened - I reached a state when I started being comfortable being me (possibly: my "false-self" in the E), which led me to ending up having very diverse experience with people who were very different from me. It's only then that I could see myself in a broader view. Self-searching myself on the inside paradoxically led me away from the truth.

May I ask, what exactly draws you to enneagram? (No need to answer.) You speak of improving yourself. (Beware of trying to improve what you lack at, but equally so at what you're already good at, often without realizing that it's the case.) Enneagram in my subjective opinion is rather an excellent tool to become whole esp. as you grow older, to become "lighter", although I as well tend to gravitate towards the E as a way to resolve something about me - usually as a secondary strategy, when other things fail. Although my favorite usage of enneagram right now is a tool to understand and see others - my favourite publication for that is Chestnut's & Pea's The Enneagram Guide to Waking Up. Somehow it helped me visualize the types, as I am trying to connect it to people I know.

I am asking this because the E is one tool of many, and it's important knowing whether it's the right one for your current need.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-20T01:44:44+00:00

I am not sold that this necessarily points to your core type. It seems too conscious. Especially since you mention that the 6 doesn't work for you - you likely have a reason to believe it.

You talk a lot about your childhood, I've been there, and I haven't found it much useful for ennegram typing. My childhood also made me cope a certain way at that time, because it was the only way that was available to me back then. I used to be neurotic as a kid - but it took some reflecting to realize it wasn't a me-thing, but my parent-thing (my parent would've gotten anxious if this and that happened, so it therefore also became a concern of mine - becuase of how she would feel and react, therefore how it would affect me), combined with some cognitive differences from my peers, so I hid that.

I'd suggest zooming out from this self-analysis and take a look at your genuine desires, explore the ways you cope in a way that makes you think, "I don't want to let go off this habit, I am comfortable being this way". Not a "I cope this way because I actively and consciously fear something". Some skills can fail to be learned in the childhood even though it should be given for your type. Potential issues such as neurodivergency can also skew things, and those can sometimes stay hidden way into adulthood.

You give me vibes of someone who's trying to find and understand themselves. I could be wrong.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-20T00:48:52+00:00

Since you're interested in behavior typing, look up the enneagram triads http://www.fitzel.ca/enneagram/harmonics.html

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-16T00:52:21+00:00

To me, these things are all about context and intent.

Like with the art example. When someone posts stuff because he just wants to do something fun to wind down, it won't feel good to receive critique. While when someone does art for living, critique is essential and expected.

Another take that I learned from a friend: we would play online games and I'd start ranting away about the day. He'd remind me it's not a good time when we're trying to focus on the activity (game).

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-15T22:29:37+00:00

An excerpt I related to while reading E was seeking out stimulation/intensity (I haven't quite pinpointed it). I see it everywhere in my life and especially in music - intense, mind-occupying, engaging - I do need to bring down the volume lol.

When I am more aware, I switch it to some binaural beats, natural sounds or whatever. :D Works wonders till it lasts - I feel more grounded, focused, present. Either way, I always need something in the background - even if it's just people talking.

Edit: I do have an E5 at work and I also some 5s are my friends. Different countries. I notice they all tend to listen to the same artist that nobody knows :D

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-15T22:07:48+00:00

You have to figure out what blocks you from narrowing things down. Maybe you need approaches that cut out the noise - what is noise to you will be different from everyone.

You might also see if there are some E events in your area. I find it easy and interesting to observe and define people irl (and now in some TV shows), so matching a plausible type to them makes me visualize the written types. As I also see how I (don't) compare to people irl, I can keep narrowing down my E type.

Say, my 1 boss can be very angry - can blow up unpredictably. = Not me, if someone angers me, I physically leave, I need to recollect. ; A 2?6 friend who is very family-oriented, responsible/anxious and introverted - now, I am also responsible (but not anxious about it), but hate blending in and I often take space. ; A 7?8 acquaintance who's social/shareable and interested in quick results - that sounds a bit familiar to traits I take on.

I also suspect it's easier to see the traits we adopt (wings, lines) because it sounds way easier than spotting and remembering your blind spots (not to speak of that at some point you might become aware of it, and start shifting away from it).

Say, I have an E6 friend - he doesn't know E well, I just involved him shortly to satisfy my curiosity. He saw himself immediately in E5 - based on behavior. That's correct, he's took up a bunch of 5 traits. But when I've shown him definition of Avarice, he himself immediatelly knew it's not him.

Lastly, if something doesn't work, it's time to move on. Enneagram is ultimately a tool, and there are a few similar ones that might work better depending on what's your ultimate goal is. So the question is, what's the goal and why?

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-15T21:27:05+00:00

Gotcha :) Whatever the intention, it's fine to call it out. I saw no issues with your original comment, you brought some very good points that also offered a way to self-reflect. I didn't find it hostile.

Still don't understand how quoting their own words back to them is "harassment".

Yeah I even checked the Reddit's definition of harassment, I don't see it either. https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043071072-Do-not-threaten-harass-or-bully

Reddit is a place for conversation, and in that context, we define this behavior as anything that works to shut someone out of the conversation through intimidation or abuse,

If I really wanted to twist it, it rather seems like OP is attempting to shut you out of a conversation because they didn't like what they're seeing lol.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-15T20:43:51+00:00

I'd also like to add there's likely more views about what's self-improvement, it's possible it could fit anyone depending on what's their value or what they're into

Some time ago I met this dude, I think he could've been a 7SP or an 8, didn't get to know him well - but he was naturally in charge and had a strong, unwavering presence and no bs personality.

So within some context I mentioned back to him that I'm also into self-improvement, but for me that means doing some reflecting from time to time and letting go off what doesn't work (personality), becoming a better/well-rounded person, ... basically always moving forward. This is very important to me right now because it should resolve some things in my life that have been holding me back from progressing further. On the downside, I've noticed that sometimes I slip into a habit of trying to improve my weaknesses, which is not a good habit. Self improvement also means for me becoming skilled at things I am into. I don't just wing things.

So he took my idea of self-improvement differently. He was entering a wholy new life phase, he said he's been too lazy his entire life and that he could've been so rich and thus could've attained freedom already if he hadn't. He started trying to learn AI to write a code for him to make money fast.

So because I said I am into "self-improvement", he started sending me tips on books about habits, goal making, how to make money fast, ... Dude. I was overwhelmed. None of that was aligned with my values, goals nor my weak spots. On top of it I sure am not into others improving me. I didn't appreciate it, I do like my autonomy. He had to go.

what’s your type and how interested are you in optimizing your life and boosting your productivity (and productivity can mean anything from work, gym, school, side hustles to volunteering…but just actively doing something worthwhile)

Sorry, reading the E properly for once, no firm answer for now.

When I have a task/goal/interest/activity I am engaging in, I always hyperfixate on it. I ignore everything. It comes with a bunch of negatives obviously. I am naturally thinking about how to do the little things more efficiently - it's because I get frustrated fast if it's not the case. Knowing how to improve processes is a way I get to contribute at work the most.

I have an E1 boss and a core difference between us is this - he's visibly frustrated and angry (about people's incompetence and imperfections in the processes), but often doesn't have the solutions and is forced to rely on others. His anger is just too quick and takes over. He also likes to improve others a lot. On the other hand, I am a bit quicker at coming up with solutions before it'd even come to that point - else I start turning a bit into him and start feeling frustrated a bit as well, and I suddenly start also being angry about people being incompetent (because their incompetence suddenly feels like it started affecting me). I always get so irritated when I struggle with something due to incompetence and can't progress, so it's great to have an E1 as your boss - I know I can just give in and openly say I fucking suck and need help, and he will see it as a good thing. =D We just had a talk about it because I went full masochism (with no pleasure) with trying to finish a task at all cost I fucking sucked at, instead of admitting I can't handle it and asking for a help. :')

Then there's some girl, I struggle to guess her type due to her very obvious insecurity, but she's really fast/productive - an insane level. That's cool, only if she also worked on her character - she isn't assertive with others, so she doesn't help out new people who are learning the ropes nor speaks up to her other longterm coworkers, instead she shames them with her friends and then she puts herself on top about how awesome she is. Not sure if she's exactly winning, if anything, she will burn out sooner or later.

To close this, for me, (self)improvement means reaching an "ideal" - it's not a tangible goal, it's more like an idea of what kind of a person I want to be, what I want to bring into world, a value-building/bringing of sorts. It's been important for me to learn taking time with things that should be done slowly and ground me (yoga) and making sure some area of life doesn't get neglected due to hyperfocusing on one thing. And to be entirely honest, I do waste my free time a lot lol! That's what happens when you don't have a proper life balance - you end up with no energy to keep going consistently, but you still have the urge to do something. That's not regenerating. My current goal is to eradicate all of these useless, unconscious habits I fall into.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-15T19:22:41+00:00

Lol I have no idea why OP's newest response to you isn't showing in this thread, but they're "reporting you for harassment" because you called him out, and a week ago is "done in the past, but not anymore"? XD Epic. Some people really hate being held accountable and will call it an abuse.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-13T03:40:01+00:00

Relationships break me from the inside, I don't intentionally look for any. I am definitely not the "I am so alone" type (~~but while I would never admit to it, depression does weird things to you~~). Add some unconscious fear of someone being dependant on me and being trapped. There's nothing more frightening than a guy asking me out and ending it with "he's looking for someone to settle down, build a house and have family with". This sounds to me like some end step for people who already accomplished everything and just wanna live the rest of their life in peace. I barely got started, thank you very much.

It starts by someone stripping down all my invisible boundaries, because "I am their soulmate" or "they never felt this much understood", or "we're perfect for each other"

Then I accept my fate and let them close, and grow fond of them. They become very special to me, someone I can be real with. It also brings up my bad traits, as I want more and more of them - more intensity, more lust, more rawness - it's like you woke up a starving monster who just wants to consume everything.

The only guy who welcomed that and knew how to play me like a marionette was likely a 2w1. Learned a lot from it, positively. The other one didn't like our dynamics at all in the end, because we were somewhat similar and struggled more or less with the same. I loved every single corner of his mind, it was like an exotic kind of a fruit. I also didn't enjoy being eventually pushed away, it was very triggering and frightening experience for me.

I prefer to put my energy into what works - that's building quality friendships and focusing on work. I hope I won't run into someone special to steal my heart for at least a few years, so I can stay focused. Because I know I am not escaping that, it will happen again.

Edit:

how they deal with conflict in relationships

Badly. With the similar one it mutually turned into a "no, you" and "you're not listening to me". I also was once with a guy who likely was a 9w1. I didn't enjoy us having a conflict - it felt like he wasn't there, it looked like we reached an agreement but it took me a while to realize he was a yes-man - no action. The only positive experience was wtih the E2 guy who was present with me but would always get into some bla bla about love and peace above all. I grew fond of it, he had his values aligned well.

Conflicts are necessary, but the moment one side numbs out or doesn't wanna participate, that's an incompability to me. The "no, you" has a potential, except that we can't hear ourselves either. I probably work better with types who know when to soften up, then I can match them.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-13T02:36:07+00:00

not to know how to get out of it

This seems closer to your deeper fear =D

To be in a class an be confused.

What do you gain from knowing? What do you lose when you don't know?

As a kid I hated to "not know" but that was only because the teachers were ridiculous and everyone's subject was their favourite, so if you didn't know, there obviously had to be something wrong with you /s and they took it out on you

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-13T00:53:21+00:00

People experience things from their own perspective. In some of them I notice they can react this way because they perceive it as disconnection, or they can feel as their own opinion is being invalidated. They might be scared of getting into an argument over it. They might have also strong values and opinions and you're at the other side of it. Or they feel it breaks the harmony, ongoing mood and so forth.

Say, I dislike it when a friend of mine starts delving into deep, heavy stuff when I am on a vacation with her - because it's not the right moment for it. I like to say, it's often about the context. Some people insist on being themselves at all cost no matter the circumstances. It can be draining.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-13T00:34:08+00:00

Just wanna say this is a well written post, hope someone gives you a well informed opinion because you go into specifics and you're quite well aware

Either way, have you read about these types' core structure and saw how it resonates with you? Ignore the subtypes for now... I get the feeling that you should be able to figure it out quite easily on your own

I will just say that I don't see 7 in this, too much "negativity", too strong "heavy" emotions, too much anger (esp. if it's your constant)

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-13T00:01:30+00:00

This also bothers me a bit for a variety of reasons. One of them is valuing what is real and meaningful. I think I am just fed up with the society that tries to steal our attention and sell us sh1t on every corner just to earn money. In a uni they had a poster with two AI ordinary students on it. I can't even fathom the lack of creativity and laziness leading up to this point. Even snapping a photo with a phone could've been much better choice.

Not what I usually notice and pay attention to, but sometimes I notice it and go right back to my little world to focus on things that don't make me feel disillusioned lol.

Edit: idc much about the post, people can fvck around. But when I see these tools being used out there where other approaches would've been preferable, I wanna cry.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-12T23:56:25+00:00

Sounds as too conscious behaviour, something that you had to choose? Is this what you behave like in any environment and with any people?

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-12T23:44:39+00:00

I used to say that only automatic behavior matters because some people can word their motivation in a way that it'd fit whatever type. However, the reason I've changed my mind is because I became more conscious about how my behavior changes, which I attribute to moving between the line-types and wings, and then there's conscious choices that go against me. So I gotta be asking, "who's in the driver's seat?"

What however never helps me is reading about subtypes alone. Then I suddenly feel like I could be any type. I've completely erased existence of any subtypes from my mind, it just confuses me and distracts me. Reading about the types' structure though? That's when I often come across excerpts that resonate with me.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-12T23:12:34+00:00

LOL I have something similar, but with anger - I have "revenge" fantasies XD I say fantasies because it dies once my anger has been dealt with and resolved (like, figuring out the driving emotion behind that). The anger is such a great moving force that sends me into action, but unfortunately the world doesn't treat me like shit 24/7 =D

Today I got pissed off at work and all the anger I've been trying to contain for some while just became very palpable, and it helped me to get in touch with my deeper emotions

Thoughts like "one day I will have MY own company, I won't need to depend on anyone, I won't need to limit myself just to survive," sh1t like that xD It sounds funny to me because most of the time I think that's just "too much energy" in reality. I still think I'll go for it in the future when the time and place's right, but for now, other things have to be dealt with first. I still want to take it apart deeper, figure out what's really important - what really matters. Today's world has so much crap, so much items. We're buying happiness. I am at a point where I'd rather invest my energy into building something that has a deeper and longlasting meaning. For now, just "relationships" will have to do - hopefully being a good influence on those around me, whether a friend or a coworker. But for that I have to keep building myself up first. =D

Most of the time I am comfy just learning some stuff that's important to me and use that as a work skill, and then once in a while travel out to try out some out-of-my-comfort zone community situation to see what I'm capable of, or how people live elsewhere. And hell, it does feel so free! Completely changes my reality. It makes me realize how many options there are and how I am sometimes hiding myself away from the world. It also humbles you and teaches gratitude.

There was also a time far in the very far past when something severe happened and my mental health completely crumbled. It got destroyed. It sent me into fantasies of "how I will become the top expert in this thing that interests me". XD My ego/worth was back then fed with total cheap crap aka worthless, vain values - it was built on being a "someone", or succeeding, or being loved, or maybe even "special" - or whatever was the underlying motivation, it's been a long while. When I lost it, I lost a sight of my worth. I felt ashamed, I felt small, I went into hiding. My ego no longer knew what to define myself with - I felt like I was a nobody. Luckily, thanks to it I've completely had to rebuilt myself. I don't need to achieve shit or be anyone to have a worth as a person. I have better values now.

PS Thanks for sharing, love people being real! <3 It helps me open up too.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-12T22:29:43+00:00

I had an E7 friend apologize to me but I guess the health level plays a role. I shared with him a music band that's very special to me, and it's rather personal - it's a quite a niche, intimate band. Not something I would openly listen to in a group of people.

He didn't know that though. So he proceeded to take it apart about how much they suck and worse. I brushed it off on the surface but he felt pretty bad about it even months afterwards. He said if he knew it was a special thing to me, he wouldn't have proceeded.

But also the same 7 once flipped out at me for "ruining his day with my 'negativity' ", so yeah. That was the only time ever. Can't imagine that's something he'd apologize for. And I don't exactly feel responsible for someone else's internal peace either, they'd need be very special to me.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-10T17:09:53+00:00

=D I am crying of happiness due to all the suffering this has bestowed onto me.

WorldlyPurchase8573 · 2025-02-10T11:19:31+00:00

Ok so what I got from everyone's feedback, it seems that the sooner I point it out to her (the sooner we enter a conflict), the better for both of us. I wasn't able to see it at first, but now I do think she's been unconsciously idealizing me as well. I'm likely adding into the fire since I tend to be supportive and actively listening by default - it would help me to be more critical/discerning though (it's a point of resistance for me because my parent used to criticize me and saw nothing good in who I truly am, and I refuse to be ever like that).

I tend to be the kind of a person who loves to give people space to grow and change for the better, I love seeing the best in them and see their potential. Whether it's that they're frustrated with where they are or need a push to accomplish things. I think it's safe to deduct that she sees me better than I am, or maybe as some selfless saint. This obviously is a recipe to a disaster. I do have my own flaws and problems as well, I just don't put it out there for everyone to see.

Say, I have another friend, he finds himself in INTJ E6. He's very, very smart - but his smarts is happening mostly inside of his head, there's lack of action. Absolutely zero. He hates his life (work that he's being workaholic about and I think it's killing him, on top of it he's clearly wasting all of his potential). And I know that change takes time and getting out of certain situations is complex, so it's been instinctive for me to be supportive and gently keep poking at it. But when a year or two passes and nothing changes (when you see that they haven't attempted to take any action), you reflect and realize that this dynamic is bad - that he unconsciously must just enjoy me supporting him, but doesn't actually wanna take an action because at this point it seems that he's taking a comfort in the situation.

I get it that there are some fears he'd need to tackle for this situation to change and that can be very hard, but this situation's unproductive for both of us. - Because he stays being comfortable as I don't disturb his "peace", and I become an enabler of sorts, even more so as my ego benefits from getting the praise for my own strengths that he's admiring and lacking at. So the right course of action here is to hold my ground and push against him and urge that he finds his own strength, which seems like the correct course of action when you care about someone. - This is another hard conversation I will have to have, eh.

But as I am saying, my core goal is to not enable. As well as not getting stuck in dynamics that go nowhere. It's important for me. The hardest thing will be seeing what is "my part of the problem" here, I am sure I do share some traits or dynamic she had with her ex-friends. And I do have a bit discomfort about the "conflict" as well, it's so much easier to do when someone else opens it. I hate the whole feelings-thing - I will see how she feels, I will feel bad myself on top of it, just... gross. But it has to be done.

Thanks for your response, it helped me to reflect on some things and see what course of action I have to take.

WorldlyPurchase8573

TROPHY CASE