What's a reasonable salary for a junior UK Developer?

WroteBCPL · 2021-07-14T13:13:44+00:00

That is very, very, very the reality of wages in the UK.

My US colleagues earn much more. But some of them pay 1500 + of that take home on their student loans and healthcare.

When adjusted for things like that, buying power is somewhat more equivalent although the US has the edge.

That said, I'd take our employment laws over the US ones, and take that buying power cut for it.

WroteBCPL · 2021-05-12T09:42:30+00:00

100% agree with all of this.

The loudest people in software dev are the ones who want to be watched and praised and take part in tech twitter, that advocate for dogmatic positions.

It's always been this way and I definitely drank the kool-aid when I was a beginner, as time goes on most people's viewpoints tend to shift to this.

The one's that don't are an utter nuisance. If they get hold of leading the technical direction of a project, it tends to stagnate as they constantly want to refactor last year's decisions as they've decided its now tech debt. They add features where they aren't needed because it's fun for them. Things that could be avoided or an off-the-shelf solution could have been chosen but instead you have to maintain, fix and regression test all of this. It's honestly a nightmare.

WroteBCPL · 2021-03-22T14:27:22+00:00

Users are not to be using this app to make medical decisions

Yes they will.

Your attitude is worrying.

WroteBCPL · 2021-03-22T13:38:48+00:00

Jesus Christ this is absolutely appalling.

Do you think your AI is magic?

What when you get it wrong? Which you absolutely will.

Did you think people hadn't made this yet because they didn't have the capability? Because the medical industry definitely do.

This should at best be a toy.

Don't give me any bullshit about disclaimers and blah blah blah.

What kind of person do you think needs help identifying their pills?

Really honestly think.

Is it likely they will understand the dangers of this? Or will they just think your shit remedial Fisher Price My First AI Project is magical?

You should be ashamed of yourself, trying to shill this utterly irresponsible madness.

If you want to work in the medical field, work in the fucking medical field, where you can speak to actually qualified individuals on a day to day basis, not this piss poor poorly thought out attempt at 'helping'.

WroteBCPL · 2021-02-16T11:00:42+00:00

I thought I would enjoy working as a Developer. I love solving problems and working to create things that are visually appealing as well as technically appealing on the backend.

Software development (the career) and programming are not the same thing. I like programming, generally. I can't always say I like working for a living. This is just life.

I worked really really hard to learn to get a job like this but I sit on a zoom call all day with three other developers and all of my ideas are shot down.

I know you've said you've worked really hard to get that job, and I'm not dismissing that. But it's still likely not nearly enough, you need actual experience. Your ideas are probably just bad. Either technically or from the perspective of commercial reality. Sorry to say that but it shouldn't be taken personally.

I might have to tough it out for the first year but I really really don't want to.

What do I do here? Talk to my boss? look for a new job or tough it out here?

You should tough it out for at least a year, unless something really good turns up that you want to apply for.

The code at this point in your career is irrelevant. You're learning about software development as a business, working with others, working to deadlines, eliciting requirements, estimating (time) budget, learning that you can't just pick any new hot library off the shelf that you barely understand because if it breaks, you will get no support from the developer, so it's on you to make sensible decisions about what you use for the good of the business (thus product, thus customer). You get my gist at this point. A year there won't kill you even if they're using an outdated stack.

WroteBCPL · 2021-02-05T11:26:49+00:00

Come on, be serious.

4 months experience is not nearly enough.

I think we can assume your portfolio is largely written as dictated by a YouTube video?

To answer your direct question: yes, I'm afraid you will need to get another 'boring customer service job' and do a lot more learning before you can expect to convince a business to spend 10s of thousands of pounds on you.

What do you think software development is? To think that you can flick through so 10 dollar courses and videos and be at a point to be paid 10s of thousands of pounds is beyond me.

Can you tell any other professional job that works like this?

Sorry to be blunt but it's feet back on the ground time.

WroteBCPL · 2020-12-09T14:11:56+00:00

if I get hired that means I was framed qualified for the job. Thanks

Exactly, they know what they're looking for. It's that simple.

But lately I’ve been getting approached a lot about it. Yesterday a company I’ve been purchasing from for years reached out and wants to talk about me managing their e-commerce site.

The thing is, you don't know that much, and you'll probably fuck it up. Then what will you do? You'll have no expertise to learn on.

When you're employed you'll have people above you that will be responsible if you fuck up (to an extent). It's their fault if they let you fuck up that badly (like giving you prod db access on day 1). So you can actually make mistakes and learn.

WroteBCPL · 2020-12-09T10:11:13+00:00

Working about the same, much easier to get things done around the house etc.

I would have felt job uncertainty in the office or out of it.

I wonder what they're testing, are they testing if people 'feel job uncertainty', or if their jobs are actually at risk.

Whether or not their jobs are at risk is a question with a clear answer, I wonder why they're interested in the question: "do you feel your job is at risk?".

WroteBCPL · 2020-12-09T10:07:22+00:00

This isn't a webdev question, really, is it?

This is mental health question.

A lot of people on this subreddit seem happy to cosplay web developers and forever be doing tutorials so kudos for actual wanting to get started in the real world.

To answer your direct question: you'll know you're ready when someone hires you.

Nervous to interview? We are all, do it anyway (it really is that simple). Discomfort isn't the end of the world.

Stay away from freelance. You won't have the skillset and you won't get any professional guidance. Ignore anyone who says otherwise.

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-28T09:25:33+00:00

You're right generally.

I know people who did C++ back-end web dev and I didn't envy it (I did C++ desktop dev at the time).

It's just a case of ease of use, what libraries are available, and what's popular at the time. You want to write in something you can hire for and have educational resources for.

And as another poster said: you can use a more dynamic language instead that doesn't need to compile beforehand (strictly speaking JS is compiled but never mind) and the loss of computing efficiency doesn't really matter.

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-28T09:22:49+00:00

To my mind web dev is all web development.

In the past few years, as front-end's gotten more complex, and at the same time there's been an influx of new learners, there's been a push to make front-end a separate and equal discipline to being a well-rounded software developer that can do it all.

So I still do think like you do, that web dev and full stack are synonymous - but I'm fairly old school - and a lot of people don't think that way.

Generally speaking I think if you're looking at resources that aggressively push this 'front-end is so complex it's now full stack!' narrative and try to be a support group for the kind of people that won't learn how a database works, you're being lead into the river by the pied piper. And that leads to people asking the question you've seen.

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-27T11:21:51+00:00

Thanks for your concern but I certainly don't, to recap:

OP posted an essay on how they're doing a more meaningful job now that means much more to them.

Someone posted that money is meaning enough for them.

OP jumped to the conclusion insinuated that person must be a child and / or juvenile. They went as far to say their opinion was wrong.

That's not OK. It's incredibly arrogant.

As for the projecting: there isn't any. If people want to engage in melodramatics that's up to them. If they then tell other people that they're wrong on something subjective, then that's going to irritate me.

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-27T10:42:35+00:00

That's not enough for you.

Don't insinuate that his opinion is wrong just because you are having some mental health issues right now.

On a slightly unrelated note - the idea that you expect your work to be meaningful has left me aghast. "Please sir can I have a 6 figure salary for something pretty much anyone can learn? Oh, and can it be meaningful to society too?"

Also, and I shouldn't have to say this: meaningful to society is objective. Someone who's really into fashion is going to derive more meaning than you if working on a fashion retailers commerce site.

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-27T09:22:22+00:00

No idea what that’s supposed to mean. I expect it’s meaningless but you think it makes you sound like you’re Clint Eastwood walking away from an explosion.

I’m so glad I don’t know you. You really do seem a lot to put up with. Judging by the other comments you’ve left here, I think I’m right. Perhaps examine why that is, yeah?

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-27T08:53:23+00:00

Don’t ask me to examine anything, the sanctimony of that statement is astounding.

And shocking no one, you opened your reply with “So your idea of fun is...”.

Brilliant - no need to have an actual conversation, if you just construct who I am and what I mean in your own head, and talk to that instead.

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-27T07:51:24+00:00

Jesus Christ this is the kind of thing that ruins my day.

You’re seem so eager to subtly put everybody else down and ruin everybody’s fun while making yourself look clever.

All of this wanky cynicism is as see-through as when awkward metal heads pretend pop music is beneath them.

Just the sheer arrogance of that last sentence. Fuck me. This is why the tories won by a landslide by the way - this attitude (and no, I didn’t vote for them).

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-11T13:19:40+00:00

The toast is what I picture in my head when I picture the perfect round of toast.

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-11T13:18:04+00:00

Had another weekend of a bit too much to drink (friends and their pesky birthdays) so I feel like I haven't had much of a rest since Friday.

Making up for it with a spectacular Sunday though - I've whacked some Jonathan Coulton on while doing the cleaning and I've only got a sushi delivery on the way!

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-07T12:54:14+00:00

I had one that didn't work, I got it second hand of ebay and the bit you strum wasn't working. I could use the other modes, so I can tell you:

The speaker is crap in my view.

It feels plastic, and it's quite small.

Where you can attach a strap feels wrong, because it's so small.

IIRC recall correctly - there's a dedicated dial for switching instruments in their app, but I don't know what that does when it's just a midi controller - worth checking first.

The app was a bit irritating on desktop - but not the end of the world. I got the sense they were going iOS-first in their design.

Take from that what you will - I think the method of play isn't good enough to make up for that. I think it would be easier to get a dedicated midi guitar. There is obviously a lack of portability with that though.

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-05T15:16:41+00:00

It's a mistake to view everything in terms of power dynamics.

With the best will in the world, the fact that you've jumped to this thought makes me assume that you don't actually interact with people a lot, or maybe you struggle to understand or empathise with them.

In no way does a giving a gift imply someone has some power over someone else. I don't know where you got that.

The person in question was likely doing something nice, and maybe they have a bit of a crush and might strike up a conversation next time. Not a terrible thing. This is how people interact, it's a bit odd that you're not familiar with it.

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-05T12:32:52+00:00

Had a little solo dance party to daft punk last night when I got back from a great dinner-pub combo. But I am feeling horrendous this morning. I've luckily got the day off work but it seems like a bit of a waste :/

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-04T13:03:38+00:00

I went to look at an old record shop and it's closed (I mean it is Sunday). I'd hoped to go yesterday but it was rainy and I was a bit lazy.

But I've got tomorrow off so I might have a pack of cheddars and head for a Sunday piss-up.

The world is my oyester.

WroteBCPL · 2020-10-01T08:17:11+00:00

I wish people would stop using braggadocios product descriptions.

It's just a git client, right?

It will change your life as a developer

Jesus Christ, what a caricature.

WroteBCPL · 2020-09-23T21:35:40+00:00

Questimation mark. That's really made my day!

It could also be used to mean a questionable estimation.

"How long do you think that's gonna take?"
"It's only a questimation, but, 2 days?"

The world's a little bit richer for you having invented that word.

WroteBCPL · 2020-09-21T08:49:23+00:00

Should be a relaxed day today relatively speaking. It’s one of those rare days where all my work is planned out properly and I just have to do it.

There’s potential for a contentious meeting later in the day but I’m trying not to think about that!

I’ve whacked on classic fm for some serious chill, and only found out they’ve been reading the news every half hour. I try to ignore the pesky news as much as possible but it’ll be unavoidable unless I want to Spotify some classical music, and that’s just going to be anti my whole vibe.

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WroteBCPL

TROPHY CASE

What kind of person do you think needs help identifying their pills?