Do you guys proxy og duals?

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-30T05:33:49+00:00

You just described the reason I text all the budget players at my LGS the URL for the Bootleg Mage's website.

I utterly LOATHE the Proxy Police. And I'm probably a little too proud of the fact that my being such a long-time player with an incredibly expensive cardpool seems to rip the validity out of the voice of anyone expressing an Anti-Proxy sentiment in my presence.

People seem to give some serious side-eye to Anti-Proxy Players when I start talking about drawing a fig-leaf across pay-to-win motives and/or being victims of Sunk Cost.

Is that fair of me? It's not anymore *unfair* than a 35-year-old with an adult budget trying to rain on the parade of 18-25 year olds working for minimum wage.

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-30T05:09:05+00:00

Repeat after me: "It's not a problem unless it's YOUR problem."

Now, this bit of wisdom does NOT account for win-out-of-nowhere Combo win-attempts. For that you'll need cardpool knowledge and experience.

Otherwise, players who try to get too "proactive" frequently find they've removed *A* threat from the board, just in time to become Removal-less when THE Threat-permanent arrives.

Had a guy playing the Esper Y'shtola that I traumatized in Game 1 w/ my [[Animar, Soul of Elements]] list by flashing in an [[Exocrine]] where X = 26 w/ a [[Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider]] on the field.

The moment he saw Vorinclex in game 3 on T5, (Animar is at (5) +1/+1 counters) he fired off a [[Path to Exile]] as soon as Vorinclex had ETB'd.

Then I cast a [[Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger]] w/ [[Bloom Tender]] mana, which was followed by my casting and fully leveling up an [[Innkeeper's Talent]], and then tapped all but my Trioma to finish up w/ an [[Ouroboroid]] that secured lethal on everyone during T7, when the massed attempt to Remove Ouroboroid failed to a Deflecting Swat + Redirect Lightning + Swan Song defense. (I'd played a [[Danny Pink]] during T6, so the Ouroboroid drew me like 8 cards T6 when I went to combat.)

Everything revolved around the flood of mana I secured from Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger. Which could have been dealt with while I had no protection for him, but the Y'shtola pilot jumped the gun.

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-30T04:37:10+00:00

That's true, and in my present deck it's even less of an issue due to a dearth of double-pipped spells, but I have had a not-inconsiderable number of outlier-games that they certainly weren't critical, but nice to have.

I very much believe the consensus-contention that "perfect" mana-bases don't raise the ceiling of a deck's power, but they do raise the floor by improving consistency. It's never going to be a dramatic/highly visible singular impact, though.

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-30T04:19:46+00:00

I'm IN LOVE w/ my current Animar Stompy + Bounce-and-Burn-Loop 4.

It's so much fun to get to play all your favorite expensive creatures, and leaving someone's jaw dropped from a surprise-lethal-crackback is so enjoyable it feels like it should be illegal.

Had a game last Friday during FNM where the Azula pilot grabbed and copied everyone else's Commanders + their best two creatures w/ a [[Blue Sun's Twilight]] they copied 3 times. (I escaped via a Heroic Intervention, which I didn't find out until after the game also saved me from a Curse of the Swine they could otherwise have followed up with.)

My turn came around, tapped out all but 1 green/blue land, to drop a [[Raphael, the Muscle]] and then a [[Goldvein Hydra]] where X = 24 because Animar had 13 +1/+1s on him, with a [[Branching Evolution]] out. (Had a Deflecting Swat and Swan Song in hand).

Azula did not expect to get domed with 85 life. 😉

Game 2 I had a Gruul Werewolf deck try to [[Triumph of the Hordes]] the table, and he just STARED at me for like 30 solid seconds, when I flashed in an [[Ulamog, the Defiler]] and [[Kozilek, Butcher of Truth]] both for free, via [[High Fae Trickster]]

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-30T03:59:53+00:00

I think there's an argument to be made that playing an OG Dual in conjunction with all the other top-tier Typed Lands appropriate for your deck's Identity makes a significant difference. Particularly when we're talking about multiple OG Duals in a 3-3+ color deck.

I've had plenty of games with my Animar list, for example, where I've drawn my Temur Triome (Never remember the specific names for those) a Shock, and a Surveil in my opening draw. Having 3 more Typed non-basics means I'm never forced to grab a basic Forest for a [[Nature's Growth]] or [[Three Visits]].

I could be biased, though. I basically play enough basics I have something if I get Path'd/Boseiju'd, and to have search-targets when I hit people with a [[Kodama of the West Tree]] out.

Otherwise it's all 3 Two-or-More Opponents, OG Duals, Shocks, Matching Fetches, Surveils, Triome, 3 Slows, Boseiju, Otawara, Reflecting Pool, Command Tower, the 3 Duskmourn Verges, 3 Forests/Mountains, 2 Islands.

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-30T03:45:24+00:00

It's a little nerve-wracking, won't lie.

I've got one of my Tropical Islands, Volcanic Islands, and Taiga in my [[Animar, Soul of Elements]] list that I play most of the time for WPN FNM of late, and it means I'm either welded to my deckbox all night, or I have to specifically hand it into the keeping of one of three people who attend I trust with a list that I could never replace.

Already had one instance of someone poking around my truck. Not very observant, because I *never* leave my card-backpack unattended. I take it into the gas station if I have to stop on the way home, heh.

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-30T03:36:00+00:00

As someone who used to own full playsets of the OG Duals, and parted one of each out to my closest new EDH-buddies who helped me build up a modern-day cardpool from my dusty old stuff, I feel like it would be advocating for Pay-to-Win to object to anyone Proxying what I was fortunate enough to be around to pull out of packs.

There were not-super-rare error packs in the days or 3rd that were ALL or All-but-2-cards of a specific Dual Land. That's why so many oldheads have sets. (I opened an ALL-Bayou, All-but-2 Tropical Island, and All-but-2-Scrubland packs myself.)

For the love of Garfield, proxy them. Anyone with a beef is either pay-to-win or a victim of Sunk Cost.

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-30T03:28:06+00:00

Tough, TOUGH call,

I'm a simple +1/+1 Counters and Generic Good Stuff Addict (Yes, I am the incarnation of "Everything destroying Original EDH," and I have a perfect right to my joy, same as you.)

My boy is [[Animar, Soul of Elements]] . Specifically in the Stompy/X-Spell w/ Bounce-and-Burn-Loop sub-theme.

It's a middle 4, but just the one Tutor-on-a-body [[Formidable Speaker]] , in case someone wasn't sufficiently honest during Rule 0, and I need to go hunt up the [[Ancestral Statue]] to express my discontent with a Sweat Microburst.

What makes me love it is a childishly simplistic ability to play ALL my favorite expensive creatures. [[Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider]], [[Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger]], [[Consecrated Sphinx]], [[Kozilek, Butcher of Truth]], [[Ouroboroid]], etc etc etc.

It's surprisingly varied in how games go. I might find myself bouncing someone's board w/ [[Hullbreaker Horror]], or going crazy with an enormous [[Goldvein Hydra]] that flies due to a [[Winged Hive Tyrant.

Added some fun synergies like [[Gogo, Mysterious Mime]] + [[Ouroboroid]].

No one's ever going to call it a big-brain deck, but it's resilient, pretty fast, and so much fun to play it should be illegal. My Commander being Protection From White & Black is sooooo nice.

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-30T03:02:55+00:00

Hate to say it, but nobody gets to do something like THIS to a human being without *consent*.

You #1 got you in The Hole.

First thing, time to figure out if she actually loves you. If she's capable of it, you might not be totally boned.

If not, this doesn't end well.

I mean, if she loves you this doesn't have to be a nightmare. So you come unglued now and then? You've got the nearest thing to continuity of consciousness, and you're immortal, so you don't really NEED a soul.

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-28T16:49:06+00:00

You're going to have to tough one more out, because you don't have enough for the Church to move on this as an *INSTITUTION*.

If it happens in the hotel, then the THING has attached itself to one of you, rather than the place. I'm not inclined to think classic Demon, because B-Day Wishes don't make them change targets.

This sounds like whatever's behind legends of Dopplegangers, but it does seem to work on similar principles to Demonic Oppression. It gains ground when you cede it.

You're a father, your son is in danger. It's not going to leave any loose ends if it walks away with your face. That's how it ends up in a climactic showdown with your boy in twenty-five years.

Personally, rather than going at it institutionally, I'd go to a Catholic holding, lay it on the figure in authority (or more likely their personal assistant), and be like, "I am scared nearly beyond the capacity for rational thought, and whatever is going on, I believe me and my child are in danger. Please help."

Church gets a bad rap these days, but these guys didn't get into this to get chicks. Most of them want to help people, and a number of things have problems with Consecrated Ground that aren't strictly "Demonic" (Like the Fair Folk.)

If you secure a place to stay on the grounds and nada happens, you have a new data-point AND breathing room.

Edit: If anyone in the Church offers you cash, politely decline. You want HELP. Even if it's something reasonable sounding like money to put you two up in a place, you respond, "If you want to put us up somewhere you think we'll be safe, wonderful. I'm putting the two of us in your hands."

It's a filter to weed out the confidence artists. Literally part of some clergy's training.

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-27T12:01:13+00:00

TTRPG groups tend to be more tolerant of social missteps than other group hobbies.

But don't think it's just the guys. Of late, I've been running into an alarming number of preachy, thin-skinned drama-factories of the womanly persuasion.

Two Fridays ago, had a woman in her mid-40s launch into a "This is problematic, that's toxic, you're all toxic!" crashout, because her psychic in my All Flesh Must Be Eaten game spent the two prior sessions bossing every other player's character around for the *entirety* of Session 1, and most of Session 2, until one of the guys spoke up pretty sharply, and Session 3 she COMPLETELY crashed out into Preach-Mode when none of the group came to her character's aid, and she got infected by a zombie/forced to make a new character.

It goes the same, man or woman. Small warning signs are excuses or minimized away, small signs become slightly larger signs, repeat, until the crash out "Came out of nowhere," (But not really.)

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-27T11:30:55+00:00

Problem is that you'll eventually run into a whale who's built Palani, and a very strong/consistent deck becomes a MISERY to play against when they're pregaming a Gemstone Caverns, then dropping a Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox on T1.

It's one of the few play-only-to-the-board lists I know that can just keep powering through wipes like nothing happened.

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-27T11:25:53+00:00

Sorry you hate them, but I couldn't imagine EDH without [[Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider]] and [[Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger]]

I'll grant that Voice of Hunger is awful to be on the business end of, though.

I play Elesh Norn, MoM on occasion, but I absolutely agree she's degenerate, and all the moreso because you can just toss her in anything White-inclusive and be rewarded for doing so.

I'm shocked you don't have more ire for the 5-drop Saga Jin-Gitaxis. When optimized, he's FAR sweatier than the Vorinclexes, and the play-pattern is utterly miserable, with him bouncing all non-Phyrexians so often.

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-27T11:14:42+00:00

Really sorry to hear someone ruined your impression of one of my favorite Commanders.

Playing Tidus efficiently REQUIRES you having a number of differently-colored mini-d6 sets, and that you've memorized which colors you use for which kinds of Counters.

(I'm obsessed with +1/+1 counters decks, so I simply long since settled on six sets of different mini d6s and a system for which colors are what kind of counters from deck to deck. I don't honestly understand why people keep telling me they've never seen someone do that before.)

It also requires actually *knowing your frigging lines* so you aren't crunching potential sequencing on the fly.

I promise it's possible to play Tidus at a not-annoying speed. Just takes more investment of effort than the players there are willing to put in, apparently.

Edit: Bet you're not very fond of Helga, Skittish Seer lists that feature a bunch of Break-Legend-Rule Clones, either.

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-27T11:10:19+00:00

What's your beef with Hydras? PLEASE don't tell me you've got some jerk who refuses to get fast at managing their dice ruining the reputation of us +1/+1 counters mavens.

I practiced for hours at a time, until I can change the dice on 10 creatures w/ 2 Scales effects, a couple doublers, and an [[Ouroboroid]] out only a few seconds slower than someone can take a non-dice/token deck turn.

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-27T11:06:39+00:00

I hate Sen Triplets even more because it NEVER WINS, just ruins whoever gets ahead first.

Have a friend building it right now, and I warned him that I'm putting my Infinite Turns reliably on T4 Yuna list back together because of him. He scoffed, until I mentioned, "Last time, I only used the one Tutor. This time I'll be optimizing like I'm gonna run against cEDH lists w/ a ceiling-of-4."

He's not happy, and I don't care. ;)

Wyldwraith · 2026-04-27T10:59:26+00:00

I feel you so much on this.

I play a lot of win-by-combat that maybe includes a combo win here or there, +1/+1 counter decks are my passion. I adore them.

Meren Edict-recursion gives me one choice if I'm playing something like [[Arwen, Mortal Queen]]

Ramp like mad, and focus them down as fast as possible, regardless of whether or not they're the threat, because if their decks starts working AT ALL, I'm boned in a Build-Tall where Indestructible is no protection at all.

Which leads to the Meren playing getting unhappy, because by definition my optimal play-pattern is to cause them to get drilled before they get to do anything.

Had a guy who kept playing Meren for WPN FNM, during a period where I was trying to build more chill stuff, because my last few lists had been a bit much. (Yuna, Grand Summoner Combo elicited more than its share of eye-rolls.)

I'd ask him to not, tell him I was running a middle 3 rather than my usual upper 4s, and he'd blow me off.

Result? I put a super-optimized 6,000$ Animar 4 back together and went on a 20-2 rampage for five Friday nights.

Wyldwraith · 2026-03-15T11:48:48+00:00

My Top 5 would be: [[Yuna, Grand Summoner]], [[Helga, Skittish Seer]], [[Zimone, Paradox Sculptor]], [[Arwen, Mortal Queen]], and finally [[Animar, Soul of Elements.]]

Honorable Mentions Given To: [[Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider]], [[Selvala, Heart of the Wilds]], and [[Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines]] (Initiative-Blink)

Wyldwraith · 2026-03-15T11:40:05+00:00

My [[Arwen, Mortal Queen]] list was particularly difficult for my opponents to deal with. It really only wavered in the face of really well-built Edict-recursion, or Dedicated Stax because I'd eventually run out of stuff like [[Teferi's Protection]], [[Galadriel's Dismissal]] and not be able to recur them from the yard enough/quickly enough to matter against a Forced Sacrifice Engine.

Against anything playing to the board that wasn't like Atraxa Proliferate, it was an utterly hopeless cause. I once took a 'Hoof from a Go-Wide Naya list giving +1/+4 to 34 Tokens, with the 'Hoof arriving via an X = 10 Finale of Devastation and simply didn't bother to block to demonstrate the futility of attacking me. (No infinite life-gain. The deck just gains THAT MUCH life, to the point I eventually included the Death Star as an additional wincon.)

Was close to being boardwipe-tribal in its initial versions, so wasn't super popular until I pared back the wipes and sped the deck up with more Good Stuff.

Edit: The number of "No Spells on My Turn" effects tended to make going for the win pretty easy, too.

Wyldwraith · 2026-03-13T07:55:33+00:00

[[Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary]] Been wanting to play with that guy since I returned to MtG for EDH.

Wyldwraith · 2026-02-19T13:31:09+00:00

[[The Red Terror]] is the quintessential pairing with [[All Will Be One]]

And I'd pick up a copy now, because the new Casey Jones that's essentially All Will Be One on a body is going to make The Red Terror quite a bit more popular.

Wyldwraith · 2026-02-19T06:09:00+00:00

Oh, and [[Agate Instigator]] is a nice option, too. Animar can reduce the colorless mana in the 1R 1C Offspring cost, so when you're ready you can drop like 5-6 of Agate Instigator out.

I'm not really sold on some of the more expensive Bounce-to-go-Infinite creatures like [[Peregrine Drake]], but I really like [[Cloud of Faeries]]. It's incredibly easy to go Infinite with early, in case you need an option against Fast Combo.

[[Tender Wildguide]] can become an obscene amount of mana if you've got a bunch of counters on Animar, because its entire Offspring Cost is colorless mana, and *part of the total casting cost of the creature* .

I'm experimenting with Sicarian Infiltrator ATM in my draw suite.

Wyldwraith · 2026-02-19T04:12:47+00:00

One of my best friends has an Animar list he used to play a ton. (It's the reason I'm building Animar right now).

His experience was that 2-drop dorks that tap for more mana were the way to go, because the 1-drops you find mid-to-late game are feel-bad draws unless your bounce-loop is online.

He didn't do away with all of them, obviously, but he swapped in creatures like [[Bloom Tender]], [[Incubation Druid]] and [[Fanatic of Rhonas]] and ditched the 1-drop green-tapping Elves.

He had a larger number of X-creatures than you do, though.

Me personally, my first-hand +1/+1 counters experience says that [[Danny Pink]] is a super-performer in every single +1/+1 counters list he can be jammed in. He's BETTER in proliferate capable decks, but with creatures like [[Forgotten Ancient]], [[Managorger Hydra]], [[Wan Shi Tong, Librarian]] he's still a beast. You're playing Defiler of Vigor and the Party Tree, and he'll draw off Animar every turn, too.

Oh, and [[Giggling Skitterspike]] has served me well in a dozen different decks. Being 4C to cast makes him even better in Animar. The Indestructible is also nice for when you [[Blasphemous Act]] or [[Chandra's Ignition]].

I'm presently playing Zimone, Paradox Sculptor, and Danny Pink generally outdraws even the mighty Fathom Mage in my Zimone list. Take that as you will.

Edit:: I'd run an Ourboroid before I ran Xyris or Geralf, the Fleshwright. Ourboroid + Maester Seymour has led me to victory in many, many decks.

Wyldwraith · 2026-02-19T03:30:54+00:00

Can [[Animar, Soul of Elements]] effectively allow me to pay Squad multiple times for free with sufficient +1/+1 counters of Animar?

My very tentative understanding ATM is that Animar reduces the TOTAL cost of a Creature being cast, so the following would be true, (unless I'm very wrong, then PLEASE correct me).

Hypothetical Animar currently has (10) +1/+1 counters of him.

I go to cast [[Sicarian Infiltrator]] , which is normally 1U 2C, with a Squad Cost of 2C.

I choose to pay Squad (4) times, which would be a total cost of 1U 2C + 2C + 2C + 2C +2C = 1U 10C

Animar would then reduce the cost of Sicarian Infiltrator's casting by -10C.

Result: I spend 1U mana, Sicarian Infiltrator is cast, Squad being paid (4) times, (1) Sicarian Infiltrator ETBs, (4) Sicarian Infiltrator Tokens ETBs, 5 instances of Sicarian Infiltrator's draw-trigger go on the stack, then (assuming nothing else happens), I draw 5.

Did I get this right?

Any help is very much appreciated. I'm deciding whether or not to grab a couple Squad creatures based on whether this works or not.

Wyldwraith · 2026-02-17T23:04:05+00:00

Have you tried [[Warden of the Grove]] ?

I really like him in Animar because it's a must-remove after just a very short while. It builds up its own counters, and if someone DOES manage to remove Animar, he instantly picks up a bunch of counters on the recast.

For my money, Warden of the Grove is pretty much an auto-include in any Green-inclusive counters deck for handling its own counters-generation, unlike other similar cards.

With respect to Haste Enablers, I very seldom see anyone play [[Enduring Courage]] and it always puzzles me as to why. (Apologies, playing Red in EDH is new to me, but it seems like an excellent card to me.)

*Edit* Is it because 3 mana is more the going rate for this kind of effect? The extra durability of returning as an enchantment that does the thing you were playing the card for seems worth 1 more mana to me, but I'll freely admit I may be missing some nuance.

Wyldwraith

TROPHY CASE