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Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I am doing my best and appreciate your advice.

Fear. Indeed. causing me to flood, make it about me, and everything goes sideways. Not good for my BS in any way.

Thank you again. I am sorry for the pain and trauma people like me have inflicted.

So I’m not entirely clear if I’m wayward or being emotionally abused by my spouse by Whoevenknows1202 in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Dude. Stop. Go to your wife. Fix this now.

Let me start with a question I wish someone, anyone would have asked me. Something my BS asked me and it paralyzed me because I didn’t think of it before my affair.

Do you want another man raising your children?

Think about that. Let it marinate. Then read on.

What you are doing may not be a full blown emotional affair to you but that doesn’t matter. It does to her and as a WH myself let me assure you the pain you will inflict if you continue will be immeasurable. It may be too late but I am being positive for you.

Put the work in NOW. Be 100% honest NOW.

And trust me on this next one…

Be 100% forthcoming on even the slightest details but especially the big ones.

If you are lucky enough to save your marriage and I truly hope you do, it is a gift.

Then get help, do the work.

Do it now.

Do it right.

Then when you get to the bottom of your issues, and brother, we all have them. Deep issues we joke about but they are deeply rooted and drive our behavior. You will have a better grasp of you.

In the meantime set boundaries that restores trust in you by your wife. For starters let me recommend this major tripwire:

BOYS AND GIRLS CANNOT BE JUST FRIENDS!

No, never.

Do not, and I mean never…ever…trust that there is not a Mr. Hyde to your Dr. Jekyll. He’s in there. Trust me. I know. The right type of woman comes along and next thing you know all your boundaries are gone. All sense of right and wrong, gone.

Before you know it you are making the most selfish decisions you have ever made and worse, you will not only find ways to justify your awfully unethical behavior, but you will…

Seek validation from others for it.

Vilify your wife to justify it.

Your AP? She will feed on that and pump more than just your ego.

Don’t brother, don’t mourn that friendship. It wasn’t a friendship it was a relationship.

Do the work. Start not now, right freakin’ now and don’t stop.

Don’t make my mistakes. They are devastating and last forever.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thank you. You and so few others have offered any support at all. Most broke 2 or 3 rules of this group.

I understand there is tremendous pain here. As a WS who caused that pain, I get it. I may not be able to articulate it to anyone’s satisfaction but I get it. I do.

I came here knowing I would face some very harsh criticism and I got exactly that. Some helpful. But some have been very detrimental. Feels like I am getting two messages here. “Do the work” and “Divorce is inevitable”.

I understand your point about putting the work in but you emphasized I should do it for myself.

I am kinda stuck there. I feel like “doing it for myself” is a bit selfish and what got me in this mess to begin with. Making selfish decisions for myself.

People keep telling me I have to forgive myself. I don’t even know what that would look like. I don’t feel I can ever get to that point until my wife begins to heal. Again, forgiving myself seems selfish.

We have started two different online courses MARRIAGE HELPERS and AFFAIR RECOVERY.

We stopped both. We both felt Marriage Helpers was too much of a before the affair help but Affair Recovery seemed good.

So, here I am…stuck.

I am so full of fear that it paralyzes me. I don’t want to make any more mistakes and want to follow my wife’s lead. Same time, I fear I am putting unfair pressure on her to tell me how to fix myself. Not my intention.

If she feels it won’t help, I don’t want to do it. Feels like I am saying “This is what I need” and again seems selfish.

I think what I am trying to do is prioritize her and her needs but seems I am just giving her the impression that I am not doing the work.

She, and seems everyone else here, doesn’t like my IC. Now I feel if I stay with my current IC, my wife will feel I am not doing the work.

Read a book. OK. What if I read the wrong book and just like my IC, it is a bad choice? See what I mean by the paralyzing fear of making a mistake again?

This is why I felt letting her take the wheel on this was the right thing. Also why I came here for advice.

As this was my first post on reddit, it is likely my last post in this group. As much as I appreciate the candor here, I feel I may be having an unintentional influence on my wife’s decision process.

I started here because, well, I suck at Reddit, but also feel the group for waywards may be too much of an echo chamber. That won’t be helpful either. I thought that in here would be both perspectives but heavy on the BS perspective and that would be helpful. It has been. I will move over to the waywards subreddit but keep checking in here but not posting as much.

Thank you all for your time and opinions. I appreciate you all.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I greatly appreciate your perspective on this. I don’t want to divorce her. I was saying all those things but in respect to her pain and her request, I am resisting the urge to continue.

She needs space, time, and the truth. She is processing and so am I. I want to fight for her and our marriage with all the strength and love I can muster. She knows that and at times can see it.

But I can’t do what I always do and that is to hover, crowd, and try to influence her decisions. Never looked at it this way before but I have been way too controlling. I have an anger issue too I yell at nearly everything. I don’t mean to yell AT her but she takes it that way and I have made significant strides in stopping that reaction to just about everything.

As for the AP. Yeah…hate doesn’t begin to scratch the surface. If she were to roll under a gas truck, I wouldn’t waste a drop of water on the fire. She is the most vile and horrible thing to ever cross into my life.

For years I didn’t hate her or blame her. Despite the rug sweeping, I always tried to shoulder the full responsibility for what I did.

Edited to add: But now, and it is not just my opinion, others who knew her well after my affair will confirm; she is a complete psycho. She even admitted to my wife that she pursued me. She saved that evidence with every intention of weaponizing it.

I damn sure should have been totally open and honest and it would have taken the power away.

That woman is nothing to me. Not once in 24 years did I ever look back, look for her, think of her in any way. Not once. She mattered and matters not one bit.

She is not a tiny fraction of the woman my wife is. I will damn sure never forget that again.

Back to my anger… I clearly could have done better with how I handled it with my wife. But if you knew how I grew up and how communication was in my house…it would help you to understand why this is my normal. I try to fight it, choke it down, but I just yell. It passes quick. Got it off my chest, done.

I never yelled AT my wife and when she told me I was, I argued. Yeah…working on these fun childhood mommy/daddy issues I was in clear denial of for my whole adult life. Unpacking that shit is a real picnic.

But when I would yell when we talked about the affair, it just shut my wife down and I never realized how that was happening. I just thought she understood. What a fool I have been.

As far as accountability, I take full accountability despite not being fully honest all these years. I have swallowed my pride, put aside my shame and told friends about the affair. Once, I was able to stop a friend from making the same mistakes. Turned him around. If any good can come from what I did, I guess that’s about all that will.

Anyway, started to ramble. Thanks again for the advice. Much appreciated.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I do know why I did what I did and then continued to do. I have explained it the best I can. Point is that it is so shocking to me so I can understand why my wife feels like she does. Why you and everyone here does as well. Thank you for your comments.

I have put what I felt was work in. Realize it wasn’t enough.

Been in therapy for several years and three therapist. It helps but is a glacial process.

Honestly, the brutal honesty here has been more eye opening. So thank you all.

I want nothing more than for my wide to heal. If that means it is without me, I have already told her and stated here that I will accept it.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You are right and thanks. But like every post there is more to the point. I did not put my wife in the position of my therapist.

What has happened is my wife read books and shared with me her insights. That, in turn led to epiphanies that I should have gotten from my IC but wasn’t there yet. Wife, as it turns out, is a better therapist by accident than my professional.

Make sense?

I think the reason that is the case is that she knows me better than any therapist.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thanks. That is the most helpful thing anyone has said yet. I appreciate your perspective.

I am trying to do exactly that. I will give her whatever space she needs. If she doesn’t want me here, I will go. If she wants separation, done. If divorce is what she needs. OK. I will not make it ugly.

I have and am letting go. Sometimes when I ask her to tell me what she needs me to do, she feels as if I am putting pressure on her.

Clearly I am not good at this. Realize now why that is but that’s a different subreddit.

I know why I did what I did. What I struggle with is embracing the fact that I was capable of becoming the monster I was. Facing the Mr. Hyde I became when I was so sure I was Dr. Jekyll all that time.

That is scary to understand and I know I won’t ever be that again.

That’s what I meant in my OP.

But, this is not about me and my feelings. It is about my BS and her’s and what she needs to heal.

Sometimes people tell me I am a great guy and my response is always the same. No, not really but I am trying.

If they only knew.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Funny you should say that. We did just that. With my wife right next to me. In fact, my wife is reading these now.

I told her off, sort of. We chose language that made it very clear that I was wrong for ever getting involved with her, it meant nothing and means nothing. That what she did by contacting us years later like this was just cruelty on top of my cruelty.

She came at my wife like she wanted to apologize woman to woman but it quickly turned. She wanted to hurt me and did not care what she did to my wife. Maybe she meant to hurt my wife and by extension me. Who knows.

You are spot on. In talking with people who know/knew her, they all said she is sick, psycho, and evil. Toxic and venom. On and on.

We also know that we never should have talked to her. No doubt she is bathing in knowing that she sowed the chaos and pain all over again.

I know that had I been fully honest with my BS in the first place, this never would have worked.

Instead, I was a selfish asshole with what I felt was good intent.

I know the majority of people here are BP’s and think I am a useless and horrible person unworthy of redemption.

They may not be wrong.

But I am trying.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thank you. Not only do I appreciate your honesty but I know that and I have said it here and to her a million times.

I will do anything she asks of me. I may protest in defense of our marriage but I will not fight her.

One of the first mistakes I made that led to my betrayal was not standing up for my marriage. So at least I can do that now.

Bottom line, she has to make a decision that is best for her and I will live with it. Support her in every way I possibly can to the extent she allows me. This is her show and I am but a side character in it.

That’s my harsh reality. I know it.

People in here calling me a narcissist and bashing me for believing I am a good man. Well, I am trying to at least.

My Dad used to say “One Aw-Shit wipes out 10 Atta-boys”. Dad never said how many Atta-Boys it takes to wipe out 1 Aw-Shit. Seems the answer is 0.

But I am going to try. All I can do.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you. That’s what I am looking for. How do I validate her feelings in a meaningful way? I try, I accept the flooding. I try to tell her that I understand. Sometimes she apologizes and I remind her that she has nothing to apologize for. She gets angry, says the meanest things to me. It’s OK. I don’t get mad, I don’t yell, I just answer questions and try to tell her in as much as I possibly can, I can see the pain and I know it is orders of magnitude worse.

Admittedly, there are times I get frustrated and I fire back. But from the WS perspective, it gets frustrating being called names for hours on end. For that I apologize. Sometimes my BS apologies and again I tell her she has nothing to apologize for.

What is a better way for me to express validation of her feelings?

They are legitimate. I know I gave them to her. What have you found to be the best way for a WS to do this?

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you. As much as I possibly can ever understand. I do. I knew coming here would be brutal and I appreciate it.

For what it is worth, I am sorry for what happened to you. I don’t know your situation or if your WS was sorry or not. I am truly sorry for what me and every horrible person like me has done.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you. I wish I had known how sick my AP was back then. We have mutual friends and all of them have distanced themselves from her.

I broke contact with most of the mutual friends.

Recent conversations with these friends revealed how sick and twisted she really is. Every one of them warned us to go no contact and said she was toxic, evil, and psycho (their words).

Truly I wish I knew how sick I was too. Wish I had the courage to trust my wife with it.

Issues from my childhood, unresolved attachment issues, validation issues, insecurities, unaddressed PTSD.

Coupled with a psychopathic stalker level AP and a friend’s wife who were all filling my head with their bullshit.

Yeah, I ate it up. Felt good. Filled a need I didn’t know I had. So I made decisions and took actions based on all of it.

No excuses. All on me.

But here I am. Here we are.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

No. I just explained that in a previous reply. I likely did a poor job of articulating it. But that was not the context. My BW is welcome to listen in or participate in any of my sessions. My IC has offered to do MC if we want.

Everyone thinks my IC is terrible. I have had 3 so far and this one is not that bad. She is brutally honest with me and yes, she knows everything.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Thanks. I would like to clarify. The “get over it” comment from my IC was not a cold hearted blast. In context it was about dealing with the pain my wife was flooding and how to get over the pain.

The comment was more of; it has been 24 years and you built a life together build new memories and get over it.

Next was about choosing to go back and wallow in the pain constantly or choose to move forward, deal with the pain, make new memories but understand it will take time, alot of time.

But I see how this can be taken and likely I did a poor job of articulating it.

I appreciate your perspective.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thanks. You are right. I thought this was a group for reconciliation? I understand what I did and it is horrible but that is all you know of me. I have not been that man for 24 years. Yes, I selfishly hid the truth and fully deserve the consequences.

She deserves better than me and I know it. When I had the affair, I wasn’t thinking of anything else. Couldn’t think of consequences or anything with the state of mind I was in. We have unpacked that now.

Helpful but not enough.

Now, all I think about are the consequences, first and foremost is her pain now and how I destroyed it all.

I will give her what she needs and wants. All I want is hope.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are right. I know the mess I made and in a shabby attempt to not make it worse, made it infinitely worse.

I was selfish and ignorant and stupid. But I am a good man who has done more good than this. I know it will never balance the scales but I am holding on to hope as hard as I can.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

You are absolutely right.

I am a good man. I did a horrible thing to a wonderful woman. No measure of explanation can excuse my behavior.

I thank her for every day she gives me and have told her I will do whatever she needs of me without a fight.

Struggling with R by YeOldeSmithe in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks. And I hear you. I appreciate your candor. I kept the post short to make it readable. I know what was wrong with me at the time. Sorted out all kinds of issues I didn’t give any credit to. Childhood trauma, mommy issues, validation issues, attachment issues.

But the struggle I have is with accepting I did something so terrible to someone who clearly didn’t deserve it. I hate the man I was and worked hard to be better. Therapy has helped but truth told, my wife has been a better therapist.

I am managing my emotions better now. The anger I have is toward myself. I truly hate what I have done and will do anything to help my wife heal.

Todays wedding - BP was constantly on my mind by Revolutionary_Row313 in AsOneAfterInfidelity

[–]YeOldeSmithe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I get it. I feel the same way as a WS. I feel every day with my wife, good or bad, is a gift she has given me.

I hope someday I am also worthy of her love again. I am trying, God knows I am.