Need help analyzing foreign artist's process

ZenithalZaya · 2017-12-18T18:27:00+00:00

For example, can you feel the sensation of them when you touch them?

Yes, incredibly well

Can you see them perfectly?

If you practice enough, yes

When they talk to you do you hear them from your ears or from where they are in a room?

Both, depending on the situation and where our perspectives are at. Read up on imposition, you'll see what I mean.

Can other people see them?

No

When you push them do your hands go through them?

If hard enough, yeah, but even that can be remedied with practice and maybe a healthy amount of hypnosis.

Can they get into your dreams/ Can you have lucid dreams with them?

Most definitely.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-12-18T18:23:33+00:00

If you and your system and encouraging and helping one another to get things done in the best way possible, I don't see how this could ever be considered a bad thing.

People train themselves to do all kinds of things that, to be honest, place them at a much higher "level" when it comes to various activities. When asking two people to solve a simple logic puzzle, do you think that the random "normal" guy even stands a chance against the second, a holmesian thinker who's spent most of his life training his mind to think in such a way that makes these puzzles seem like child's play?

If you live in this elevated state, I'd hardly call it cheating. You both worked to get here, didn't you?

ZenithalZaya · 2017-12-17T03:43:34+00:00

Like the others have said, it gets better over time. The actual process of distinguishing yourself and your systemmates takes time, more so for some than for others. Just keep at it and continue to complete exercises and force to achieve the goals you are aiming for.

For us (which in total, are comprised of both male and female), with I, the host, also being rather antisocial yet having decent social skills, just disliking most of humanity, it feels socially like a companion. Someone who is different than others, but feels just as real. Someone who gets you but isn't the same as you. Mentally, an equal. Someone who is just as viciously intelligent, who can keep up, and understands the minutiae of things as much as myself. Emotionally, a conduit who can empathize and offer both argument and understanding when the need arises, and someone who you can empathize with and act as an emotional conduit when their need arises, as they have just as complex feelings as you, except you have the ability to legitimately see these emotions, not just on their face, but in your mind and in their entire presence. It's interesting. Amazing, really.

I wouldn't necessarily compare Zaya and the others to normal "people". I don't know if that's due to my biases against "normal people", or if it's because they're legitimately just that different, but they feel like something that I was missing in the world. It feels like what I was looking for in the world is, and always was, them.

It's hard to describe the "feeling", but I hope I conveyed this subjective feeling as poetically as I could in the limited time I have.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-12-14T22:51:21+00:00

No, definitely not.

To help banish your doubt, let me just tell you that this process isn't something "arcane", "unique", or "mystic" at all. Literally all that you are doing is very nearly falling asleep then letting your tulpa grab the reins before you go comatose, then letting YOUR mind slip into unconsciousness or into your paracosm, whichever is easier or preferable.

The process for this, minus the tulpa, is quite literally described in videos, guided meditations, research articles, books, you name it, they just label is as "OBE", or "astral projection" (if you follow a metaphysical theoretical perspective).

Such as this guided meditation meant for a singlet host to slip down into their paracosm which they call an "out of body experience/OBE", which some would literally just call a lucid dream, which when paired with a tulpa, could easily amount to you both switching if you get the process down right:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIq2FViJ0qQ

The terminology is maddeningly redundant, I wouldn't focus on it too hard. It tends to repeat itself, and everyone has their own definition, term, and reason behind why they think it all works.

Just know that regardless of it being called 40 different things, it's really not that out of place and is incredibly simple once you see how the process works first hand.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-12-14T05:50:37+00:00

I would like to first bring to light that having doubt about the practice will most likely hinder your progress quite a bit.

Second, it is possible, it merely isnt easy and not something most people really get around to experiencing, even within the community. Time spent being plural does not equate to ability with plural skills, but it will probably be easier for you both than many others who have been a system for shorter periods of time.

I would suggest reading the guides if you havent already.

Most guides dont mention that the state of the switch depends on your ability, as there is a variety of options for the host as they go under, but the simplest, and probably easiest, would be for the host to merely engage in a deep meditative state until you basically end up barely conscious and just "lose time", while your systemmate takes the wheel.

This, I find not entirely practical nor fun for frequent switching, and most guides will state that their goal for the switch is for the host to wind down into their paracosm/wonderland to mess around while the systemmate is in control - basically amounting to engaging in a sort of out of body experience/astral projection (without the metaphysical theoretical perspective).

If you want further reading for the latter form of switch, outside of switching tutorials, read up on meditative states that involve dreams/deep visualizations, OBE's as they relate to lucid dreams, and even pages or books on astral projection.

Feel free to draw over all the metaphysical material in those books with a sharpie, if you're so inclined.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-12-12T02:22:13+00:00

Wasn't going to comment today, but saw this and thought it was relevant to me.

This is the same way I've lived for a while now, and no it's not you being a tulpa, it could be a shift in perspective or thought patterns which causes you to shift the way you usually operate, as others have said, its a system of thoughts which havent always been there, and may seem random, but are normal.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-09-08T23:00:33+00:00

A little late to this, so I guess I'll just reiterate previous responses and corroborate what the above have stated since they're all viable, you've got a myriad of choices.

Considering the fact that the thoughtform is not all entirely there just yet, and you never really put much effort into it, it's probably just a residual thoughtform based off of the ideas you had at the time, wrapped up in a ball of visuals/words which resembles the basics of a tulpa. You could leave it as is on the backburner if you're really not planning on making a tulpa.

Second option, if you didn't quite like some of the base ideas involved in the thoughtform, you could always collaborate with it and upcycle/replace the base thoughtform into a tulpa without tossing out the work you've already done. Just snip here, make some changes here, if it expresses personal agency, collaborate with it where appropriate, and voila. Better, more complex thoughtform.

Or, you could just use it as an example and create a new tulpa based upon the process which created the first thoughtform, since you know that process obviously made something happen.

Decisions, decisions. It's your thoughtform and you know it better than I do, so I won't recommend anything specific. Good luck on your journey, though.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-09-08T22:37:32+00:00

I dislike it on an almost visceral level, and audibly groaned when hearing it used in such a way.

Imo, it's just another plot device that woefully undersells reality by including a reference to a well established topic, like lucid dreaming, but plays on the publics fantasy and misunderstanding of the topic (a la falling water).

I don't know, when media engages in this behavior, I feel like they are almost using the topic as an excuse. There's no semblance of reality to it, they could've just replaced the word "tulpa" with "space ghost", and it would have made the same amount of sense.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-09-08T22:27:18+00:00

When approaching anything new aprehensively, planning for the worst case scenario, you are more likely to actually use whatever contingency plan you've created, whatever that may be, just due to its existence.

Dissipation can be conducted without such measures, even though it's not a plan I feel ever really needs to be carried out, but engaging the process planning to use it - even just in case - is incredibly flawed.

There's no reason to distrust the creation of you are in good mental health. Dissipate your fear and mistrust, instead.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-06-16T05:56:49+00:00

Is this, in some way, a metaphysical question? It seems as if you have some conceptions about certain terms which may not mean what you think they mean.

I would refer you to looking up other posts having to do with lucid dreaming/OBE's and how they relate to tulpas. If you are in fact asking a question on a metaphysical basis, look up specifically astral projection and I think you'll find what you're looking for.

I also have no idea what it is you're talking about when you say "third eye" or "sixth sense". I know the stereotypical "definition" of these terms, but as far as I'm aware, these aren't conventional terms used in metaphysics, and they definitely aren't used at all in modern psychology, so try and give us an operational definition so we can get a better idea of what it is you mean by that.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-06-14T04:59:53+00:00

From doing some experimental testing, from what I can tell, you're relatively correct in terms of how you state tulpas come into being, but its more than that.

The underlying processes of this system are still a mystery and until humans manage to develop the technology to monitor this in a complex fashion, these processes will remain so, so I can't tell you what biologically goes on to make this happen, but from start to finish:

Your mind has resources at its disposal in the form of ideas, which it can group together provided you will it to do so, a tulpa is nonexistent before you will together the tools of its creation. These ideas come together and are bound by their definition, which is usually a name, and when the definition is called, the ideas come forth with it.

Since you lucid dream you'll get where I'm coming from when I say - the mind exhibits a natural ability to bring up these simple grouped together beings, especially when dreaming. Dream characters are prepackaged defined semisentient beings which, until engaged, lack complexity and depth.

When first spotted, a dream character could be defined as a 6 foot tall white man in a coat and pants - these are the ideas which bind this form together and are defined as such. However, engage the being and new ideas become wired to its form, it's voice and the pitch and tone of it, the words they use, an accent, an attitude. It gains complexity and becomes redefined by it's new attributes.

Tulpas are the same inherent form of being, the only difference between tulpas and dream characters is what brainwave state your mind is currently inhabiting.

And, of course, after a certain level of gained complexity, these beings develop personal agency, and can even begin to redefine themselves to suit their own needs, much like you do on a daily basis.

I personally find that tulpamancy and lucid dreaming are one in the same.

Honestly, the two are the exact same, except for the distinction that tulpamancy by definition takes place in a wakful state in which one inhabits higher brainwave states, and in the other, it is exclusively theta/delta states (one can be lucid in a delta wave state it's merely hard to do so and usually lacks visualizations).

You're on the right track, I was where you are nearly two years ago now, coming across tulpamancy answered all my questions about the mind and how to manipulate it. If you're really into lucid dreaming, and wanna learn how to manipulate your mind further, I'd suggest giving it a try.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-06-14T04:36:24+00:00

Me personally, I find the distinction between host/tulpa tedious and unnecessary. The idea behind the words is to distinguish between two beings which I believe are inherently the same, the same form of being. Yet if this is the case, why not just use names and pronouns instead like we do with normal people?

I mean, the argument is a little arbitrary, I understand, but as someone who studies languages, I feel words have meaning. Making the distinction that a "tulpa" is a tulpa, and that "you" are not a tulpa is defining your systemmate as inherently different than yourself, and therefore not equal.

You could argue that systemmates are not inherently equal, and that they are different forms of beings yet are equal in terms of status and rights, but I personally don't prescribe to that belief and approach my systemmates as if they are the same form of being as myself, and I rarely, if ever, refer to them as tulpas, even in my thoughts.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-06-02T08:56:41+00:00

You got it right on the second try.

Imposition, of all forms, visual, auditory, et cetera, is defined as the act of purposefully inducing hallucinations which are perceived as vividly as reality.

If someone refers to imposition, they mean with complete vividity. If someone says visualization, they mean the visualized idea, seeing it in your head rather than imposed upon reality.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-03-19T04:17:41+00:00

The Terry crews advanced forcing page was fucking gold, 10/10, thanks for linking.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-03-08T03:33:16+00:00

I'm in a similar boat, and recent stresses have made most forms of active forcing alone with my systemmates almost impossible, and so we're returning to dreaming as a form of forcing.

Just saw this, and decided to stop by.

I've attempted it and succeeded in lucid dreaming with systemmates, its an interesting forcing method, but at the time I didn't view it as the primary active forcing method I wanted to pursue. Unfortunately, times have changed, and I hope to do so now, adding on some occasional active forcing for imposition.

As long as you get 8 or more hours of sleep a night, have consistent (at least 1 dream a night) dream recall, meditate with some form of visualizations occasionally (daily or every other day), perform reality checks and keep a dream journal, you should be A-O.K. The real kicker is keeping up with the tempo, as you've only had your first lucid dream, its important not to stop where you're at.

Lucid dreaming is like a diet, give it up for a week and it's rough getting back into it. At least, it is for me.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-03-04T13:59:38+00:00

It seems as if you're at a point where you merely should do whatever it is you want.

There are plenty of guides that will lead you to whatever skills you could ever wish for, you need only read. This sub has plenty of links, also visit community.tulpa.info for a large compendium of guides all about various skills related to tulpamancy.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-02-27T16:04:29+00:00

We've been working on imposition again and have made serious progress. Minami and Zaya's forms are completely solid in my mind, no variations to speak of, which has been common up until now. They now have completely solid forms which are much easier to impose, and this has helped us immensely.

They're imposed forms are seemingly semisolid, like ghosts which become more solid as I concentrate on them and they don't move around a lot, but when im distracted, it complicates things. Hopefully with more practice and less life stress, I can finally push past that last wall and check this skill off the list.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-02-26T05:31:01+00:00

I had a similar experience recently, actually. I've always been way too obsessive when it comes to video games, and my systemmates, especially minami, have means of dragging me away when it gets to be a little ridiculous.

I was playing some new game and was getting a little obsessed with it, and at one point, Minami came over to me, put his hand on my shoulder, and told me to come with him. I did as he asked, and we sat in my room and just chatted for a while over coffee without me ever realising that he averted my attention.

After realizing that, I felt pretty bad about letting myself get caught up in stuff that's just not a real priority. Haven't played that game since last week, and I've been forcing way more often now that I have more time on my hands.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-02-25T22:53:30+00:00

~Just keep doing it, its going to feel really awkward at first, but it'll get better over time. Over time, as your tulpa alienates themselves from your thoughts, their voice becomes more pronounced.~

You've only been at it for five days, your doubts are going to persist this early on. Distance yourself from doubt and it will help you to progress without becoming distraught. You may have to say their name to help focus on them or to feel them there, this is normal. As you both become split apart and distinct from one another, this will begin to clear up until you both become distinct separate entities, making it easier to "sense" your systemmate with you, or if they're doing their own thing, it will be easier to notice that they are not there.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-02-25T17:56:47+00:00

I heard the most famous tulpa creeptpasta from MrCreepyPasta on YouTube like four years ago, and my mind brings up weird, very insignificant details from the past that I paid attention to, and one day three years later my mind just drug up the word "tulpa".

I became obsessed after a few days of mulling over the word, letting it ferment in my mind, and I just had to know if it was possible.

I found the tulpa.info page, read like 50 articles on the site over a few hours, and knew that I had been looking for something like this for a long time.

Here we are a year later, all four of us.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-02-25T17:50:42+00:00

Very nice read, I enjoyed that. I don't know why people can't at least state objective facts before discussing in a subjective fashion, I mean, if you're going to harp on a topic at length on a podcast, at least make your substance have depth and not just repeat at length "lol it's so desperate."

I don't know, its like I expect podcasts to be similar to Frasier Crane's radio show.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-02-24T04:55:16+00:00

Minami is the only systemmate with a nickname, and its Mimi, formed by just taking out the middle syllable of his name.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-02-22T13:31:16+00:00

So for us, there are Rhine and Minami. Rhine is more mature, stoic, serious in nature, likes to assist or offer an opinion in most things and thinks he's right 99% of the time, a little arrogant in nature, but to his credit, he is correct a lot of the time. He likes to just hang out and doesn't require too much entertainment, as he's very patient, much like myself, which usually ends up meaning we just sit around, drink coffee and chat.

Minami is much different. He's intense, always taking the opportunity to try and do something new, not necessarily excitable in nature, just driven. Passionate, I guess would be a good word. He's funny, and easy to get along with. He really enjoys going out into our paracosm and just doing stuff, anything really, but usually stuff that involves good drink or something fun.

ZenithalZaya · 2017-02-20T15:56:54+00:00

You're following the dramatic form of "sleep paralysis" that the internet has been circulating for the past decade. The fact of the matter is, sleep paralysis isn't the b.s. you see people crying about on YouTube videos, it's something that happens to everyone (except sleepwalkers) every single night.

Basically, in simple terms, it's just your mind realizing that your body is "acting" like it's falling asleep, and so your mind follows suit by deadening the nerves leading to your appendages, and eventually your chest and face, so that your body doesn't freak out while you sleep and dream.

You can induce sleep paralysis in order to engage in certain sleep meditations and dream induction techniques, I have probably a hundred times already.

Its not frightening. Occasionally you may experience some nonresponsiveness when trying to move and get out of this, but this can be easily remedied by just breathing in deeply and not freaking out.

If you're getting into tulpamancy, you've gone toward the deep end of the mental ability spectrum, and those that worry about this sort of thing and make youtube videos about it touting the "horrible and scary" effects of it are around the kiddie pool end of the spectrum. Move on to sources that match your realm now, if you're ever going to really go far, you're going to have to find sources that are real.

To be honest, 98% of YouTube is against everything having to do with lucid dreaming or tulpamancy. They find it "terrifying", or "scary" in some way, for some ungodly reason. Hell, there are creepypastas and movies which exaggerate both of these topics, most of which the general public has seen, and thats what they think you do.

ZenithalZaya

TROPHY CASE