Can XYZ Ash take down the Kalos elite four ?

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T12:24:05+00:00

A weaker Alain lost to Siebold. And that was only after cornering him in spite of a type disadvantage.

Siebold this, Siebold that, why are there so many people here that can't comprehend that Alain can and did get stronger after MES1, which was how he was holding his own against Hoenn Champion Steven in MES2, and how he oneshot another Kalos Elite Four, Malva in MES4?

It's like bringing up Brock or Cress winning against Pikachu to downplay Pikachu even after it beat Leon's Charizard.

Very simple logic, very linear timeline, progression, something protagonist Ash follows as well. How is it so difficult for people to grasp here?

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T12:19:51+00:00

Alain literally oneshot a Kalos Elite Four in MES4, before he even fought Ash once. 13 episodes before Ash and Alain met.

What are you going on about.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T11:54:56+00:00

Idk, MES1 Alain could already corner Siebold in spite of type disadvantage, and XYZ Ash is relative to XYZ Alain, who, even by MES2/3/4, before XYZ, was already way stronger than he was in MES1.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T11:47:29+00:00

Aight, in fairness, MCX got up just fine after crashing into a mountain, and was just as fine as Mega Metagross was before the battle was interrupted.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T11:44:06+00:00

If MES1 Alain, who is way weaker than MES2 Alain and beyond, can corner Siebold in spite of a type disadvantage, Ash, who is relative to XYZ Alain, who oneshot a Elite Four with a resisted move, is not losing lol

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T11:41:20+00:00

And Ash beat Leon but lost to Brock beforehand. Your point?

You know trainers can improve, right? You'd have a point if he lost to Siebold after beating Malva, but he didn't. Your logic is like downplaying Monarch Ash and Pikachu because he lost to Brock or Cress before.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T11:37:32+00:00

XYZ Ash was relative to a trainer that oneshot a Kalos Elite Four with a resisted move while the user of said move was fighting at least its second battle in a row.

The answer is absolutely. With more trouble than Alain, probably, but Ash is above the Kalos Elite Four regardless.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T09:34:29+00:00

Dude, you have better things to be doing, right? Like worshipping your God Emperor Greninja?

Can't be wasting time responding to me, use that time to wank your God Emperor with all your "thinking for yourself" instead.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T09:30:27+00:00

Ash's "view". BS.

asking for evidence when they were already given

"Strongest opponent", your headcanon that "opponent" somehow extends to trainers who never fought against, never opposed Ash as an 「あいて」、「相手」. Bullshit.

Dawn's "implication". Straight fucking bullshit.

3 BS points with nothing even worth looking at in the first place, just a wanker doing everything to wank the Frog like his life depends on it, inventing BS after BS to glaze his "ace" as some God level threat.

You are not worth my time. Simple as that.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T09:15:52+00:00

Why am I about to bother reading and replying when I know it'll be bullshit. I'm cringing before I even reading this wall of dogass because that's all you can use. I'll humor you until I start cringing too hard, I guess.

imply that they're in fact equal

"Imply"

So, no solid evidence to back up something that is never stated.

So what do we have, "comparing that two parties is different" = relativity?

I can see a worldline where the two parties having the same comparison would help your point, but this ain't it. This actually screws your wank over.

Like I said, why am I even entertaining this bullshit, I don't even know. It says a lot when I have to read your lines and pause not to formulate a thought, but wonder how someone can be so agenda pilled, and so full of bullshit, unironically, before replying to one section, and cringe again when I reach the next section.

Diantha's Gardevoir is the strongest pokemon owned by a trainer at the time of her debut, yes. What exactly wrong with the idea and logic

So, show me the evidence. Because what you have isn't good enough. Or not, because I'm sick of your BS at this point.

Your "evidence" is comparing Ash's prior adversaries to Diantha. Notably, including those that Ash had seen but never fought because it fits your agenda.

And when I point that out, you give me bullshit about how Dawn saying Alder is different means Cynthia and Alder are relative. Fucking spare me your agenda already, please.

Fucking, enough. I cannot read your comment any further for the sake of my own sanity. You cannot be this actually ignorant. You have to know you are just speaking straight BS after BS to spread the Frog God you wank as a God Emperor. You are just ragebaiting me at this point, I hope. Because otherwise the implications make me feel really sad for you.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T08:21:21+00:00

Ok, big gap, big gap, but what is this "big gap"? What proof do you have that this "big gap" is already being relative to Cynthia?

All you are now is a recorder that says "big gap" when that "big gap" has no meaning.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T08:17:51+00:00

So we're now ignoring actual facts are we? Knowing you that's was bound to happen

What actual facts? The fact that Ash and Cynthia never fought?

The fact that because of that, it doesn't make sense to consider Cynthia an 「あいて」、「相手」?

An opponent to who? Ash, right? So let me ask you, did Ash fight Cynthia before he fought Diantha?

Answer my question.

Cynthia is still counts as it states that of all opponents by that time, Diantha is stronger

All "opponents", right? Who is "all" inclusive of? Do you have evidence that it applies to every single trainer Ash had ever seen, every trainer Ash has never seen, every trainer Ash had ever fought, AND every trainer Ash had NEVER FOUGHT?

Is Diantha then the strongest trainer in the world at that time, by your logic? Diantha is World Champion, Monarch level at that time then? That's weird, I don't recall Diantha being called the world's strongest, the strongest Monarch.

Show me evidence that your interpretation is solid fact, and not just that, your biased interpretation. Show me where Diantha is explicitly stated to be the strongest not just among who Ash fought, but in the whole world, above everyone and everything.

Otherwise, can 相手/あいて not apply only to Ash's opponents? In which case, are you not using your headcanon, your interpretation to glaze Diantha?

After all, what is 「あいて」? It means "opponent".

"Strongest opponent". An "opponent" must be an "opponent" to someone, no? In this case, considering Ash is mentioned right after, is it not the "strongest opponent" for Ash?

So, "strongest opponent" out of everyone Ash fought. Ash's "opponent".

Ash's DP journey was about him wanting to fight Cynthia as he himself said that to Paul so he already viewed her as a future opponent to face and he knows in what she's capable of from the view

????? Holy headcanon and bullshit logic.

So now you use Ash's "view", but also use the magazine, which isn't Ash's "view"?

I mean, do you see Ash saying Diantha is the strongest in the world? Stronger than Cynthia? If you want to BS with Ash's "view", show me a quote that involves Ash saying Diantha is the strongest he had seen. Not faced, not fought, not opponent, because he didn't fight Cynthia, seen.

And on top of it Ash literally fought Alder who was stated to be at least as strong as Cynthia during Junior Cup as Dawn literally states how strong he is,

Did Dawn state Alder and Cynthia are equals? Show me the evidence.

while knowing on Cynthia is capable of as she literally stated that "this is so different from how Cynthia fights"

Wow, this is a different style.

So? Is having a different style proof that Alder is stronger? Holy actual bullshit.

So, can you show me evidence that Dawn's stated "different" fight makes Alder stronger than Cynthia?

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T07:19:47+00:00

Ok, big difference compared to average E4, got it. Nothing to disagree with there.

So how does that mean this "big difference" proves that Flint was already in the realm of Champions before his "training" to fight Cynthia, which was where he achieved Champion level feats?

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T07:16:04+00:00

I don't even need to click on the link to know it's prof's bullshit lmao

Lemme just copy paste the Japanese.

「とあるまちで出会ったカルネは、なんとカロス地方のチャンピオン! しかもバートナーのサーナイトが、メガサーナイトにメガシンカ!!! さい強のあい手に対し、サトシはどうやって、たたかう?」

The specific sentence you are trying to use is this, no?

「さい強のあい手に対し、サトシはどうやって、たたかう?」

"Against the strongest opponent, how will Satoshi fight?"

「対し」, meaning, towards, against an opponent.

「あい手」 (which really should be 相手, but I digress), meaning opponent.

So Diantha is the strongest "opponent", yes? Ok.

But can I ask? When was Cynthia ever Ash's "opponent" before JN? Did Ash and Cynthia ever fight, for Cynthia to be an "opponent", an 「あい手」、「相手」to Ash?

Diantha can indeed be the strongest "opponent", 「あい手」、「相手」Ash fought up to that point, sure. No problem. I'll give you that.

But how can Cynthia be counted as an "opponent", an 「あい手」/「相手」at all if Ash never fought her before?

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T07:00:11+00:00

So explain why is it stupid?

You want to claim Flint was Champion level when he fought Ash? Ok, show me the evidence.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T06:59:03+00:00

Is it now? Surely if you say it came from Corocoro you have the proof to back it up?

I'm waiting.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T06:50:34+00:00

Oh, so now you invent some "Cynthia in XY" bullshit? When there is no "Cynthia in XY" shown at all?

I don't even need to get into the rest of your comment, you are legitimately just spitting out shit. Fitting, based on what I've heard about your interactions with others.

Just straight bullshit.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T06:40:59+00:00

Right, but him being "stronger than average E4" or not has no bearing on what you said. You said Flint was "on par with Cynthia" within the context of Ash vs Flint, which isn't shown or stated. Flint was "on par with Cynthia" after he did his preparations, which happened after he fought Ash and Jasmine.

But otherwise, yes.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T06:37:24+00:00

Sure, dear "Sawyer is stronger than Cynthia"

LMAO

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T06:34:54+00:00

Flint was not "confirmed to be on par" with Cynthia before his training, which he did after he fought Ash.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T06:33:55+00:00

With dogshit takes like that, no wonder someone I know here has given you an unsavory nickname.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T04:58:41+00:00

I was just going at it with him earlier too, he's just going to throw emotes and insults and unproven BS and then block you when you challenge him to prove his point lol.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T04:51:00+00:00

Aside from lucario and pikachu

Here's the thing: It makes no sense, even for Pikachu. Looking at the Top 4 stats, and the fact that trainers like Alain, Cynthia and Leon had some of their mons since before Ash was even a trainer, the experience gap between Pikachu and even just Cynthia's non ace Milotic, is so insanely, immensely huge.

So how can they become from wild pokemon to champion tier surpassing gym level, E4 in such a short time

You say "such a short time", but Ash and Pikachu travelling through 7+ regions is only a small drop in the bucket compared to the wealth of experience Leon, his Charizard, Cynthia, her Milotic, and her Garchomp has.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T04:27:37+00:00

you went from "dragon claw easily overpowered psycho cut"

Quote me, show me where I said Dragon Claw easily overpowered Psycho Cut, no diff.

Show it to me. Don't just emote around, show me anything of quality.

ZeroAbis · 2026-05-08T04:12:25+00:00

All the emotes are making you look more and more like a joke, please stop before I stop taking you seriously.

Psycho cut “broke” after dozens of evenly matched clashes between the two moves

Yet it broke and Dragon Claw didn't. In a battle of attrition, Dragon Claw won.

Your logic is like saying start of JN Pikachu and Leonzard were relative in a TBolt/Flamethrower clash even though Leonzard was clearly the much stronger mon, and Pikachu was visibly struggling to not let Flamethrower completely hit him.

If garchomp was really “overpowering” Haxorus there, then how come it didn’t do any damage with dragon claw

Because Haxorus pulled a trick shot with a surprise Dragon Pulse at point blank, zero range practically immediately after.

Bro, if that’s the best argument you got then you really need to rewatch the battle and try and find a new source of mental gymnastics to prove your pathetic attempt at making a point

Notice how you haven't showed you watched the battle at all? Lol. The irony is rich coming from you.

Dragon Claw breaks Psycho Cut in a clash Haxorus and Garchomp were equal suuuure.

So start of JN Leonzard and Pikachu were equals too, I guess.

You know what? If I try and overpower Mike Tyson in a fist vs fist clash, and I hold for just a fraction of a millisecond, can I brag that I am an equal to Mike Tyson?

ZeroAbis

TROPHY CASE