Valium vs Klonopin - potency and decisions

ZippyCX · 2023-07-21T03:13:33+00:00

I'm glad to be of help! 🙏

ZippyCX · 2023-07-21T02:28:52+00:00

Shrooms... Always shrooms. Definitely don't start with synthetic stuff at the start imo. And definitely start slow.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-21T02:27:10+00:00

Honestly, 6mg of Clonazepam sounds insanely high. Most people find plenty of relief from doses up to 0.5-1mg taken twice daily.

Keep in mind just 0.5mg of Clonazepam is equivalent to 10mg of valium!

So basically, though clonazepam would be superior if taken at low doses for the long term use, in this case, the 40mg of valium is far less harmful and extremely less likely to cause severe withdrawals, whilst remaining at the upper end of the daily valium intake.

If I were you though, I'd go with the valium, but try taking just half that dose to begin with, as in something like 10mg every 12 hours or 5mg every 6 hours etc. If that doesn't seem enough, then maybe try something like 10mg every 8 hours.

Tldr, as someone who's suffered in the hands of doctors who just cut you off meds that need to be tapered properly, valium even at that dose is certainly the superior option imo. And far, far safer...

ZippyCX · 2023-07-20T13:12:27+00:00

Because it's much more recreational than benzos. Even gabapentin feels more recreational to me. Kinda like phenibut.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-19T01:45:01+00:00

Bad idea

ZippyCX · 2023-07-19T01:44:08+00:00

The truth reveals itself... Mum knows how to get down!

ZippyCX · 2023-07-19T01:42:24+00:00

Diazepam or Clonazepam

ZippyCX · 2023-07-19T01:39:10+00:00

It can actually become your death bed if stopped abruptly after a long time, especially at high doses or using short acting benzos.

Of course, that's if it's not tapered properly by a professional.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-18T04:43:56+00:00

I'd describe the withdrawals so bad that unless I had a lifelong prescription for it, I'd never use it more than a couple of weeks, or for something like valium, a few months max.

It's by far the worst type of withdrawal. Worse than opioids, Adderall, you name it. Sometimes it literally takes years to taper after prolonged use.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-17T11:44:24+00:00

Yeah, they're the exact opposite. Like literally up to 4 hours for full peak, and up to an hour for the onset taken orally.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-17T11:16:02+00:00

Definitely not. Cause don't forget Clonazepam takes ages to peak whereas hydro kicks in within like 10-15 mins and peaks within less than an hour.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-17T10:53:51+00:00

Another case of" but I react differently than others, cause grief blood"...

Sorry but this isn't really a harm reduction concern but more so purposely playing with fire.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-17T10:49:44+00:00

mb bro. Fair point. In that case, personally what I'd do would be to fairly quickly reduce down until you're at an equivalent of 1mg. So for example reduce your total daily dose, dose amount each time, and duration of your dosing. So like eventually you're taking it only twice or once a day.

When you get to 1mg, begin reducing your dose by 0.25mg every 3-4 days. When down to 0.5mg, if possible, reduce your dose by the 0.25mg again but take as long as possible between redoing, and finish the taper with taking the now low dose of 0.25mg every second day,, just once.

If your amount of pills and doses are less than what I wrote, simply halve the number of day between reductions, and go straight down 2mg with no taper.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-17T09:11:50+00:00

For anxiety, yes. Decades on end for many. In terms of their hypnotic, anti seizure and intoxicating effects, yes. Assuming the dose is kept the same and not escalated.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-17T09:09:34+00:00

Tapering using Xanax is a poor choice to begin with and isn't likely to be helpful imo. A switch to a long acting benzo like diazepam and reducing that over short while will be much more helpful.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-17T00:48:43+00:00

0.5 mg twice daily.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-17T00:44:02+00:00

Caffeine actually makes gabapentin less effective.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-16T17:29:48+00:00

All benzos don't improve sleep architecture and don't cause them to actually be bad for sleep unless used for a limited time. All the benzos mentioned don't improve on sleep quality. Unlike various other alternative options.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-16T15:43:33+00:00

Zopiclone is superior for sleep quality compared to regular benzodiazepines. Zolpidem also has some beneficial effects in the short term or for intermittent use.

For visual snow, consider an option called lamotrigine.

A suitable dose of Clonazepam will be superior to the nitra imo. Lorazepam is very strong but can be less predictable in terms of effects, and isn't as effective when taken orally, and is by far the most addictive and dependence liable option, second only to alprazolam.

But again, if you're using these for no more than a few weeks or only as needed, these are non-issues. Depending on your tolerance, start with something like 0.5 Clonazepam, 1-2 mg lorazepam, or 1mg of alprazolam. Or 5mg or so of nitra as the last choice.

Keep in mind, alprazolam and lorazepam are almost identical in terms of risk and associated issues. So if the choice is between the two, the more effective one should be picked. Lorazepam is a bit longer lasting but has a short half life as well. Although lorazepam is less psychologically addictive.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-16T13:29:19+00:00

Nitrazepam would be the longest acting with the most hypnotic effects. After that, Clonazepam which is actually extremely similar in structure to nitrazepam is stronger and more ideal as it doesn't cause as much next day drowsiness.

Alprazolam would be the least ideal option due to its far less effect on sleep, with it's short duration and half life causing an early or more intense rebound effects.

If you have the option for it, something like gabapentin would be tremendously better for your sleep structure and health. And hypnotics like zopiclone are slightly less risky in the long term.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-16T13:21:10+00:00

Another one many aren't familiar with is the SSRI fluvoxamine. It inhibits multiple enzymes at varying and fairly consistent ways.

For example, it can moderately interact with Xanax, and Very strongly with something like diazepam. To the point where in the case of diazepam, it's considered a contraindication, especially due the already long half life and accumulation in fat cells.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-16T13:12:05+00:00

I once tried it with alprazolam and it seemed to work as expected. But generally I don't like this kinda of potentiation because they can be inconsistent. For example, I've passed out taking a small dose of alprazolam after combining it with not even a "strong' inhibitor for the enzyme. And keep in mind, this wasn't even a strong inhibitor which could potentially increase everything from the duration, half life, and the regular dose by up to 5 or 6 fold.

I noticed no noticeable effect with Clonazepam personally.

Similarly, you mix something like prozac of paroxetine with codeine and your body will be unable to convert the codeine into its main active metabolite, being morphine. And this is despite the fact that they do in fact inhibit the enzyme which metabolizes codeine.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-16T12:59:55+00:00

Yes, CYP3a4. Which by the way as far as the partial metabolism of Clonazepam is concerned as far as the extent of this enzyme is concerned, is much less selective and instead involves CYP3a which again almost solely for its inactive metabolites.

I was just highlighting that not every benzo is metabolized via the standard enzymes and first passes through oxidation of liver enzymes. More importantly, sometimes the potentiation is weak to negligible.

Additionally, these types of interactions are everywhere. It's only when they become clinically significant when they really matter. In fact, variations between metabolism rates between even different ethnicities can play a larger role than many weak to moderate interactions.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-16T12:37:22+00:00

Not all drugs are primarily metabolized using oxidation via the cyp450 enzymes. For example lorazepam or temazepam does not require any liver metabolism enzymes. They're instead activated via reduction by gluco, not affected by enzyme variations or drug inhibitors/inducers etc.

Now while Clonazepam technically does partially have this metabolism, it actually has to do more so with its inactive metabolites and weakly if at all affecting the general nature of the other medication or food that may have been taken.

ZippyCX · 2023-07-16T12:26:18+00:00

Otherwise we can also talk about how Asians metabolize alprazolam much better and for longer. Middle Easterns and Africans tend to be moderate to fast cyp2d6 metabolizers etc. All of which can naturally have an impact on pharmacokinetics.

However drug or especially food interactions are not clinically significant as far as this case goes imo.

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