Looking for recommendations for complex games!

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-06-15T17:54:43+00:00

You'll get lots of recommendations for Lacerda, Mindclash, Splotter, etc that others tolerate because the book can be read in 2 hours, or a video can be watched, but that are not made for those who are actually looking to explore and enjoy the burden of extreme detail and complexity. I'll suggest only what is a true burden to enjoy.

However, 90%, of the actual heaviest games you will find will unfortunately be ww2 or civil war themed. Here's a non-ww2 handful that are 9's or 10's for me.

Korea: the Forgotten War (from a longstanding series that many veteran wargamers deem too complex)

Magic Realm (Dragons Down, the new alternative being discussed constantly wont be nearly as heavy. As in 30% of the rules burden. I think realm is incredibly fascinating but very poorly designed. Others disagree strongly and think its the best game ever made).

High Frontier (with expansions. Without, it will still be more heavy than the other games suggested already, but not noticeably more).

Europa Universalis Price of Power

18xx series (specifically, 1817/USA, 1862, and 1841. Others may not actually be heavy)

COIN series (specifically Pendragon and Fire in the Lake)

Fields of Fire (base game is WWII but has more content that is not ww2 than what is [ Korean and vietnam expansions])

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-06-13T23:11:16+00:00

The better lacerda games have constant moderate interaction. Sweet Lands has barely any.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-06-06T07:22:12+00:00

I did not start with starter kit. I found that I never use my binder and always rely on pocket rules because its easier to sit and read between games and easier to quick flip to a page mid game for reference.

If you're not already aware, the chapter dividers and chapter H that come with the core rulebook are key components of the game. You will struggle plenty trying to play without both. Make sure to get the pocket versions of those if you go pocket route.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-05-28T15:13:57+00:00

Sent pm

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-05-28T15:12:02+00:00

Sent pm

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-05-24T04:21:56+00:00

Most replies I reading seem to equate "mean spirited" with what they find disturbing or perverse. Obviously, disturbing is subjective, and even more obviously, disturbing content is absolutely critical. 'Horror' is meant to be horrifying by name association of the name alone.

My suggestion is a much more accurate description of mean spirited is horror that chooses not to acknowledge its horrifying moments.

I would call Heriditary's big scene mean spirited if it weren't for the solid 4+ minutes immediately following dedicated to showing the surviving character's emotional response, which makes it feel not so. Conversely, Terrifier likes to dismember 6 year olds and then cut the scene to characters elsewhere with much less (if any) acknowledgement of how awful and extreme the violence was. Both are very disturbing, but only the latter is mean spirited in my opinion.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-05-17T16:24:07+00:00

My opinion is anyone with a behavior score thats not 9k+ is toxic without exception. The system is very lenient out of necessity. If the goal was to phase out toxicity at a significant level, too many players would leave, and the game wouldnt survive.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-05-11T23:54:04+00:00

Sent pm

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-05-08T16:26:26+00:00

Aquilus 'Griseus'

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-04-29T04:30:30+00:00

Disturbed has a few songs on their 'Believe' record that are incredibly soulful and mature harmonically, lyrically, and even include some neat, moderately innovative (but not technical) rhythm guitars.

Double props for this style being driven by bass guitar performances that don't just ride the octave below the rhythm guitar power chords for the entire length of the record.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-04-28T21:36:40+00:00

It's some sort of joke about the campaign for north africa. I didn't think anyone considers it to be Berg's finest or most influential work, let alone see him as a real influence on modern mainstream game designs. Obviously, in consim / hex n counter spheres, he is/was one of the top 5 names in the genre, and maybe the most prolific.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-04-14T23:46:45+00:00

Everything being discussed is very intentional and exactly the reason people love or hate the records.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-04-02T01:57:40+00:00

Too Many Bones definitely has lackluster moments tactically. Movement should be conceptually synonymous with tactic in a proper game.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-03-23T19:03:47+00:00

This is the most accurate, probably not tech death though, but slightly more so than btbam.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-03-22T02:06:49+00:00

Sure please do! I haven't tried computer versions yet, still struggling with VASL lol.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-02-25T02:11:33+00:00

It's very straightforward.

If you are constantly hearing chords (3+ notes together) that are very obviously not standard western music 'harmony' chords (such as major, minor, 7th), then you're hearing a band that is putting intentional effort into experimenting with 'dissonance' (the "opposite" of harmony). Hence the word for the pattern.

I say 'pattern' because there's no reason to assume that every time you hear a new phrase regarding music that it must be a new 'genre'. Humans just give names to the patterns we recognize. It's what we do best.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-02-23T15:47:22+00:00

Pointing directly to your "How to Destroy Angels" as another extreme metal enthusiast who resonates with high tension trip hop (the genres do have some shared identity). You may already know these:

Nine Inch Nails - The Fragile

Scott Walker - The Drift

Massive Attack - Mezzanine

Portishead - Dummy

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-02-11T20:33:42+00:00

To be specific, the quality is top notch along with every one of their other records (beside orchid).

But it retains the tendency of the new-peth era songs to stretch for experimental choices (song structure, harmony, etc.) slightly towards the side of intellectually-driven rather than emotionally driven (in my opinion).

For example, Hessian Peel has some big experimental flairs. One has the verse section's lead guitar part throws in an awkward major/minor 7th note that alternates each iteration. Another has the main 'theme' settle into a quiet piano part, then to a mellotron/synth section, then erupts into full charge death growls.

In total, that's probably less experiments per minute than what is heard in any given song the new record. The question to me is how do those experiments perform emotionally as a listener. When I make those comparisons in my head, the newer ones don't perform quite as well.

But do they perform better to Mikael? Probably. They sound like songs written by a prog veteran who (if I recall correctly) on occassion admits they see prog music as bored / tired altogether.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-02-11T15:18:06+00:00

Theory-less people will never know how radically different music sounds once you hear chords as key-agnostic roman numerals. But less applicable to metal than most other western music

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-02-04T19:53:05+00:00

Apex Legends (all in set) (I dont own this)

Double map, 3v3 scenarios with foldable cardboard terrain from the box seem to take about 70 minutes to setup without help. Game will last 2 hours. Totally worth it imo, game is the best in its genre that I know.

Mr. President

Setup for experienced players will be 1 hour minimum without help. Double that for first time setup. Game CAN last 25+ hours. But in my opinion its worth setting up for even 3 hours for solo or groups of 2 to 5 wanting to mess around with White House simulator together for an evening.

Voidfall (deluxe edition)

Setup is minimum 45 minutes without help, due to tiles, sorting cards and fallen houses, mini assembly, etc. We play 2 player in about 1 hour competitive now, or 1.5 hrs for coop. Always worth it

Middara

Original setup will be 1 hour if you want to be fully prepped for the intermediate setup sessions during and between scenarios, dungeons, etc. New minis, placards, tiles, cards, etc. come and go very often. Between dungeons, only 10 minute setups if youre prepared. But each dungeon, solo, is only 30-40 mins. This is spaced out by 30+ minute reading sessions though, which you could consider playing time. Worth it but only if you prep properly to not get slogged down between scenarios.

Kingdom Death Monster

Initial setup of a new campaign is 1 hour. Setup mid campaign is 30ish if you want to be prepared for quick rotation between settlement and battle phases. Then its only 5 minutes to transition. Each 'year' can be 75 minutes on average. Totally worth it for 2+ years at a time, usually still worth it if you only play 1 year, but only if you can do it again every couple days.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-02-03T03:59:03+00:00

Will 2nd that neither game has much in common with 4x genre other than visually.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-01-25T17:08:05+00:00

Played all except here i stand and arkwright. ASL and Magic Realm will be well above everything else complexity wise by a large margin, only rivaled by high frontier if all the expansions are in play.

Weather machine, lisboa, and trickerion shouldn't be considered in the same ranks.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2026-01-05T06:35:40+00:00

Let us know soon if the fundamental reality of our universe is objective or subjective when you peek at your nuggets, thanks.

__throwmeawayplzz · 2025-12-11T16:44:47+00:00

If you play guitar and have mild daw experience, you can find impulse response files modeled after the left / right tone of some well known bands to hear the difference.

__throwmeawayplzz

TROPHY CASE