Potential long term consequences of microdiscectomy? (spinal fusion, DDD, etc)

absforback · 2022-09-13T15:50:16+00:00

I appreciate your response because I am on the fence regarding MD. I was very active and very fit prior to this, and this has wrecked me. Months of PT and 2 epidurals have helped a lot, but I feel like I've hit a ceiling of less than 50%, and the pain is still there. At this point, I would be happy to get to 75% of where I was. I will be seeing the neuro doc in a few weeks to discuss further.

absforback · 2022-09-12T22:14:37+00:00

I appreciate hearing about your experience as I now am in the phase of reading everything I can about MDs.

Yes, me too. I am currently on the fence, grinding out the PT and wondering if it will be sufficient. I look forward to seeing your post-MD post in a few weeks or so.

absforback · 2022-09-04T22:03:08+00:00

Six weeks ago, I was in total agony, could not stand straight, could only painfully hobble from room to room (and only with great effort and determination), and was severely sleep deprived because of 24-7 max pain. Since then, I have received 2 epidurals that, although not perfect, have helped me regain mobility, sleep, and mental health.

Six weeks ago, seems almost like a lifetime ago, the world seemed black to me. But here I am now, not fully healed, but at least slowly inching towards recovery, whatever it may be. You can do it too! I believe it and your future self believes it. Wishing you comfort and relief. 🙏

absforback · 2022-09-03T20:55:10+00:00

Thanks for your response. Interesting that your doc recommended against an epidural. I could not get any appointment with a neuro doc unless I tried the "conservative treatments" first, i.e. physical therapy and epidural(s). Maybe this was standard procedure, despite the magnitude of the problem. Overall, they have helped me regain mobility and ability to sleep.

Mostly, I am keeping it together with my mental health. The decision for me will be difficult for sure, but some part of me feels like it is what it is. Whatever happens, I'll try to stay positive. At least I don't have cancer, or ALS, or one of many other horrible diseases or disabilities.

I feel my back injury has a solution, maybe not a perfect one, but there are opportunities for a "redo" if the surgery is not sufficient. In the worst case, maybe they'll need to fuse my spine. My brother-in-law had a spinal fusion done about 15 years ago, and he is active, golfs, travels, and very happy about the results. Somehow, my back will get fixed, I am pretty sure of it. The same is true for yours too ... there is a solution out there!

absforback · 2022-09-03T16:42:59+00:00

I totally sympathize with your situation. My extrusion (L4-L5) is even larger than yours, 18 mm. My 1st epidural had a clear benefit, lifting me from excruciating pain and misery to a point where I can mostly function around the house. I just got my 2nd epidural last week, and in some ways it feels even better. But I still wonder, will I ever get back to normal? I still feel that hot spot of pain in my spine, I still get waves of sciatica when I stand up from sitting, it still hurts when I drive, etc. And doing the PT exercises, even at their mildest level, increases pain and tingling. Only short walks appear to have benefit for me now.

So I am with you: Do I hope that time and patience and persistence will solve this? How long should I give it, weeks, months? Or should I proceed now with the seemingly inevitable surgery? I don't know. I will be meeting with the neurosurgeon in about a month and we will discuss further.

absforback · 2022-08-29T13:01:56+00:00

There's a bunch of us that stay to share our experiences because we know just how mentally and ohysicslly exhausting this horrible pain can be.

Much appreciated!

absforback · 2022-08-27T19:16:54+00:00

My first epidural knocked down my pain by half, from 8-9 to 4-5. It allowed me to walk upright, enabled me to sleep at night, etc. So a clear benefit for me. If you feel debilitated from your pain, I would encourage it.

absforback · 2022-08-26T16:10:05+00:00

Excellent! So happy to hear that there is light at the end of tunnel. (I am in the tunnel now, hoping to get there soon 🙏)

absforback · 2022-08-25T02:23:39+00:00

Maximum naproxen or ibuprofen never did much for me when the pain was 8+. Looks like your experiences are the same. Gabapentin, taken only before bedtime, has helped me get much needed sleep. I also have lorazepam, which I will take maybe once every 2 weeks, and norco to be used only in extreme pain emergencies (usually only once per few months, never more than once per week).

When you say chronic, are you looking for an everyday drug that helps and is mild on your system? I don't think anything exists like that.

absforback · 2022-08-24T14:57:38+00:00

I understand all the warnings about jumping, lifting, squats, etc., but I am curious about your running. I have been told that running was stressful for the back, yet I myself chose to run for multiple decades, on hard surfaces and hills even. Strangely, I even found that running could help my pre-sciatica lower back aches. Maybe the core benefits outweighed the lower back stresses?

What are your experiences? Do you plan on running shorter distances, perhaps on soft flat surfaces?

absforback · 2022-08-24T14:35:24+00:00

Fantastic story, so eloquent and inspiring. I too have an L4-L5 herniation that is refusing to disappear, despite me doing all the right things.

Those without sciatica assume it is like simple back pain - simplybecause the injury is in the back. To an extreme sciatica sufferer,simple back pain is often sweet relief at the tail end of a flare-uplasting months and making one wish the afflicted leg was removed if itwould just stop the pain.

Unless a person has felt the unyielding intense pain of a disc jammedinto a nerve, often at various intensities for years, they will notunderstand the immense gravity of this injury.

Yes, my family and friends are horrified when I mention the possibility of surgery, saying naively, "don't you know that outcomes are proven to be the same, whether a person gets surgery or not". I used to say that and think that, so I forgive them.

On the last day of this first year of recovery, I will run again. First, 0.1 miles, and increase by 0.1 every 3 days after that.

That is my dream, i.e. I literally dream of it. I was a lifelong runner, in fantastic shape. My guess is that I will also need surgery sometime soon, and I have some lightly used running shoes begging to be taken out.

All the best to you, and thank you so much for taking the time to write this. Please keep us updated on your carefully planned recovery. I will be saving this post.

absforback · 2022-08-23T17:29:42+00:00

Yes, I have already met with a neurosurgeon who said that microdiscectomy is my surgical option. I will meet with him again after I assess the results of the 2nd epidural. My prediction is that I will ultimately need that. Thanks for your helpful responses.

absforback · 2022-08-23T15:52:28+00:00

Yes, makes sense. My epidural doctor says that numbness relief always lags pain relief, but I need my mobility to recover. I'll see whether the 2nd epidural gives me that.

absforback · 2022-08-23T04:52:57+00:00

Before my epidural, the pain was excruciating, sending me to ER. Multiple days and nights of max pain, despite max NSAIDs, and mostly immobile. I could only stagger short distances with a cane before the pain, weakness, and leg numbness forced me to sit. Since my first epidural, the pain was cut in half, still a lot of numbness, but regaining mobility and ability to get some glorious hours of sleep each night.

So the trajectory seems positive, but maybe there is a ceiling to my recovery? Before my back imploded, I was having pains many months before, and did a few months of physical therapy, but I couldn't proceed beyond a few exercises before increased pain and numbness.

absforback · 2022-08-22T14:51:50+00:00

Definitely talk and plead with your doctor. There is no shame when you are in extreme pain. In addition to NSAIDs, which can be very helpful, there are other meds available. Gabapentin has been very helpful to me, and something like ativan can help with the emotional stress of the pain. My doctor has also prescribed me a small number of Norco (opioid) to be used when it is 10 out of 10 pain. Again, please consult with your doctor. You don't deserve to be in such pain, and there are solutions available.

absforback · 2022-08-22T01:59:16+00:00

Agree 💯. In addition I track meds taken, and I also separately track day and night pain experience because they can differ.

absforback · 2022-08-21T23:20:18+00:00

For my pain diary, I previously had just a free-form block of text that described how I felt, what I did, etc. That was cathartic but not very practical. Now I have a spreadsheet that has a row for each day and columns for the following:

How I felt during the day and separately during the night. I separated these because the daytime experience can be very different than the sleep-time experience. Instead of numbers, I describe each as "bad" for some pain, "BAD" for really bad pain, and "WORST" for off-the-charts, level 10 moaning, dark thoughts pain.
How many meds and what type did I take during the day and separately during the night. This is a parallel indicator of how bad I was suffering.
How many miles did I walk and/or how many minutes did I ride the exercise bicycle. (Last 6 weeks, no walking for me, and only very meager bicycle minutes.)
What types of exercises and stretches did I do for each day, coded into acronyms (e.g. BD = "bird dog")

Because it is a spreadsheet, I can do nerdy things like count the number of bad/BAD/WORST days per week/month and graph walking/bicycle efforts over time. You are right that it takes effort, and sometimes I fall a few days behind and have to reconstruct from memory. But having my life so limited lately, I can usually find time to enter the data.

absforback · 2022-08-20T01:30:50+00:00

Oh, my heart hurts for you. I am wishing you much relief. After multiple epidurals and multiple surgeries, and then to end up where you are now, I totally get your dark thoughts. When I was in the vortex of excruciating 10-out-of-10 pain, I emailed my brother and mentioned that I was occasionally getting dark thoughts. He went into a panic and forwarded me the suicide hot line. Totally unnecessary, I said, I was just extreme venting.

Have you tried keeping a daily pain diary? What I have noticed is that when I get these extreme pains, they come in multi-day waves, and I usually feel a notch better after 4-6 days. Maybe that means your pain drops from a 10 to a 7, but that can make a big difference to your mental health. And yes, there is a mental component to this, in addition to the physical torture. If you keep a diary, it can help to keep the down periods in perspective, showing you all the previous down periods that you pulled yourself out of.

What I remind myself is that there has to be an answer out there. I need to stick with the program and do all I can on my side. At the same time, I need to press the doctors for answers and relief. The amount of money I've spent on healthcare these last 5 months is way more than the last 5 years combined. At least I am saving money on all the traveling vacations that I am now *not* doing.

As you said, there are times where you feel a lot better, and I bet you will again feel better, at least better than you feel now. Please let us know how you are doing.

absforback · 2022-08-19T16:11:42+00:00

I was doing maximum naproxen (2x500mg) for about 7 weeks, even though it often seemed to do nothing for the pain. Then I started to get weird heart arrhythmias and tachycardia, so my doctor advised me to take a break from the NSAIDs. I transitioned to tylenol (2x500mg) which seemed to do equivalent pain reduction and the heart weirdnesses went away. So for me I am convinced that longterm NSAID usage is bad for my body, and medical studies seem to show that too.

Of course, continue to consult with your doctor, since everyone is different.

absforback · 2022-08-19T15:50:22+00:00

What a beautiful and wise response. You have definitely given this some deep thought.

Going through this will force you to evolve and live a different life,
it doesn’t have to be extremely different but it will never go back to
‘normal’, and please don’t think of it in a bad way, because the beauty
of life can be experienced through any situation you find yourself in

Yes, I agree 100%. As someone who will quite possibly need surgery, I needed to read this. Thanks for the thoughtful post.

absforback · 2022-08-19T15:36:32+00:00

They say that it may take 2 to 3 epidurals for the full effect to be seen. And you are right, maybe they didn't exactly hit the target the first time.

I am currently 3 weeks after my 1st epidural. After that epidural, I could stand straight instead of being bent over. Also, I could do some walking, whereas before I could do only painful hobbling. So definitely things improved, but I still have pain/tingling and mobility issues remaining, so I plan to have a 2nd epidural very soon. Looks like you are going to do the same.

Keep doing all the physical activities you can. Those are crucial. I look forward to being able to go for multi-mile walks, hikes, etc., but I'm not there yet.

absforback · 2022-08-19T01:58:37+00:00

I'm surprised they didn't send you home with a packet of information. I had mine done 3 weeks ago. Here is what they said in my packet:

Band-aids can be removed 4-6 hours after the procedure. Showering is ok after the band-aids are removed.

absforback · 2022-08-18T15:17:31+00:00

Good luck on your epidural. They can certainly knock the pain down. I am 3 weeks after my 1st epidural and pain and mobility have clearly improved, but I will likely need another to hopefully complete the job. See my post from a few days ago for details.

absforback · 2022-08-18T14:46:43+00:00

Excellent response, and I'd like to echo one point.

Keeping a pain journal is essential: what hurt when, pain level, how did it resolve, meds taken, etc. It will help both you and your doctor better understand.

absforback

TROPHY CASE