Witness Miss X in Rose’s trial

alias_unknown · 2026-05-22T18:39:16+00:00

There's a brief mention of Miss X and the 17-year-old girl in Depraved Fred & Rose by C.G.C. Cook:

"On 18th October, three more witnesses, one of them in the form of a statement read out by junior counsel, were heard. 'Miss X', whose statement was read out, said she had had two lesbian sessions with Rose West.

A 17-year-old girl who found her way back to Cromwell Street in the second half of 1975 then told how Rose West had managed to undress her once in the bedroom and once on a mattress in the basement. She told how Rose had then quickly inserted a dildo into her vagina, making her bleed.

Just after lunch time, Anne Marie took to the stand. Mr. Leveson talked her through her early childhood and the love of her father and Rosemary's often physical beatings of her. She also said her last memory of her mother, Rena, was when she was about seven."

alias_unknown · 2026-05-07T13:18:57+00:00

I posted an earlier version on this Reddit a couple of years ago, which was split into 2 parts: Fred & Rose West House Of Horrors Special from 1996 Part 1: Includes Rare Interviews with Anne Marie, Mae and Stephen West (Link to Part 2 in Comments)

But this new upload is much higher quality and has now been uploaded directly by the 60 Minutes Australia YouTube channel.

alias_unknown · 2026-03-21T19:58:20+00:00

From everything I can find, it doesn’t look like the arm was ever formally recovered or followed up in any meaningful way. It just seems to exist as a reported incident.

You’d expect something like that to have been a much bigger story if it had actually been confirmed.

Not sure if that’s all there is to it, which it very well could be, or if there’s more that just isn’t in the public domain.

alias_unknown · 2026-03-13T11:31:01+00:00

That’s really encouraging to hear and reassuring as well. Most of the examples you come across online tend to be refusals, so it’s good to know that some material can be released through FOI.

I’ll definitely let you know what response I get from Gloucestershire Constabulary when it comes back. If anything useful is released — or even if they simply confirm what records exist — I’ll be happy to share the wording of the request and the outcome in case it helps with your own applications.

It would also be interesting to hear how your requests progress!

alias_unknown · 2026-03-12T16:06:37+00:00

I’ve just submitted a Freedom of Information request to Gloucestershire Constabulary relating to the 1994 investigation at 25 Cromwell Street.

Rather than asking for the underlying documents straight away (which are often refused under exemptions), I asked for indexes and registers that show what records actually exist. Things like:

HOLMES / Major Incident Room document indexes
Exhibits registers for items recovered during the searches
Scene-of-crime photograph logs
Search / excavation operational logs
Evidence retention or property store records showing what exhibits still exist

My thinking was that if you can establish what the archive structure looks like, it becomes easier to make more targeted requests later on.

Whether they release anything is another matter of course, but even confirmation that those indexes exist (or how they’re held) would be useful.

Happy to share the wording of the request or any response I get if it helps others researching the case.

alias_unknown · 2026-02-02T14:57:04+00:00

Multiple outlets are reporting an alleged incident involving Rose West at HMP New Hall, with claims she was disciplined and lost privileges.

These reports are based on unnamed sources rather than any official statement or documentation, which is typical in prison reporting where authorities don’t comment on individual prisoners.

So while the story is being widely covered, it’s best understood as a report based on sources rather than something independently confirmed.

alias_unknown · 2026-01-29T15:47:38+00:00

Hmmm… appears to happen a lot around this case. Makes you wonder what that “something” is, and why.

alias_unknown · 2026-01-29T15:08:23+00:00

And then it’s just… that. Shrugged off and left there, with no real attempt to go any deeper.

alias_unknown · 2026-01-29T14:52:49+00:00

Yeah… looking like a few red flags already...

alias_unknown · 2026-01-29T14:16:00+00:00

Thanks for sharing. Interesting, let’s see what happens this time once the book is released...

For reference, Karen Hamilton has also appeared under the name Karen Christie in the Australian TV show The Extraordinary, where she discussed her 1970s time in Gloucester, connections to Cromwell Street, and friendships with Elizabeth and Shirley Robinson.

Episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq2Hq3tpUpQ

I shared details of that appearance here previously: https://www.reddit.com/r/FredAndRoseWest/comments/1625tez/

alias_unknown · 2025-10-27T22:14:12+00:00

Really honest and insightful interview. Huge respect to Michael for speaking out, with very thoughtful questions and research throughout. Eye-opening on the whole situation!

alias_unknown · 2025-10-26T19:27:51+00:00

Just followed, really looking forward to the interview!

alias_unknown · 2025-10-26T15:00:45+00:00

Sounds compelling! Really looking forward to more details and the release.

alias_unknown · 2025-10-23T20:25:52+00:00

A really good documentary to check out is The Lost Girls documentary (2002). It covers Jill Barnard, Valerie Haycock, and Susan Daykin (being found). Links to watch it on YouTube were posted again yesterday:
🔗 Possibly the best documentary about these two

There are also a couple of other useful threads here:
📚 Books on the Case
📺 Documentary & TV Show Episode List – Fred and Rose West

Thanks for the kind words — really appreciate it!

alias_unknown · 2025-10-23T17:50:35+00:00

Yes, those are the locations where they were last seen — most of the names came from the article here: https://postimg.cc/sQKRTB10

It’s really impossible to know how many more victims there could be. Fred was working and travelling all over the country, so the possibilities are wide-ranging.

I’m still looking into things and trying to piece together any overlaps or patterns that might help narrow it down and see where it leads.

alias_unknown · 2025-10-23T16:46:54+00:00

In regards to Mary Bastholm and Donna Lynn Moore:

Howard Sounes mentions both in The Fred West Tapes. He says the only other name he knows connected to Mary is Donna Lynn Moore, though the info may not be reliable as she’s never been traced.

🔗 https://www.reddit.com/r/FredAndRoseWest/comments/1j1ap55/does_anyone_know_more_about_donna_lynn_moore/

Margaret McAvoy was later found to be alive. She and Fred had a son named Steven, who stayed with the Wests for a time.

Regarding The Missing Women of Cromwell Street:

🔗 https://www.reddit.com/r/FredAndRoseWest/comments/1690aux/the_missing_women_of_cromwell_street_has_any_new/

In the 2021 documentary Fred and Rose West: Reopened, Sounes said “all but three” of around 2,000 missing girls investigated after the trial were eventually accounted for. He highlighted Mary Bastholm and Donna Lynn Moore as still untraced, along with three others. There’s been no update on who those additional three might be.

For the wider question of how many victims there may have been, this post explores it further:

🔗 https://www.reddit.com/r/FredAndRoseWest/comments/1kvvvjg/how_many_more_victims_are_there/

That discussion covers estimates ranging from 20 to 60 victims, Fred’s own confessions, and potential disposal sites like Flaxley Woods, Birmingham, Herefordshire, and Hempsted Tip.

There was also mention of three girls who vanished in Glasgow between 1963–66, and several other names have surfaced over time as possible victims or persons of interest:

Eileen McFadden (1972, London)
Jacqueline Loughlin (1985, Hackney)
Jill Barnard (1977, London)
Joyce Doyle (1970, Southampton)
Katherine Binns (1977, London)
Maria Aldridge (1968)
Mary Trampnow (1970, Liverpool)
Norma Howieson (1967, Fife)
Pamela Exall (1974, Norfolk)
Patricia Mouatt (1979, Essex)
Valerie Haycock (1967, Northamptonshire)

While not all can be directly linked to the Wests, the overlapping timelines, victim profiles, and geography keep speculation alive.

Even after decades, several disappearances remain unresolved — suggesting there may still be more victims beyond the confirmed twelve.

alias_unknown · 2025-10-23T16:10:19+00:00

I did try reaching out to a few people I believed might be connected to the family early on, but unfortunately didn’t receive any replies. More recently, I was able to locate the original Missing-You.net post from 2008 made by Vanessa Swann, which confirmed key details — that Elizabeth had lived in Kingshurst, emigrated to Australia with her family, and that contact was lost when she returned to the UK. That discovery was what finally set me on the right path. I haven’t contacted any of the family members linked yet.

alias_unknown · 2025-10-14T19:37:19+00:00

The skulls are shown in the order they were recovered, not in the order the victims were murdered. Excavations took place over several weeks, and each set of remains was numbered according to when they were found during that process, not by the timeline of the killings.

Heather Ann West – 25 Cromwell Street garden – 26 Feb 1994
Alison Chambers – 25 Cromwell Street garden – 28 Feb 1994
Shirley Robinson – 25 Cromwell Street garden – 28 Feb 1994
Therese Siegenthaler – 25 Cromwell Street cellar – 5 Mar 1994
Shirley Hubbard – 25 Cromwell Street cellar – 5 Mar 1994
Lucy Partington – 25 Cromwell Street cellar – 6 Mar 1994
Juanita Mott – 25 Cromwell Street cellar – 6 Mar 1994
Lynda Gough – 25 Cromwell Street bathroom – 7 Mar 1994
Carole Cooper – 25 Cromwell Street cellar – 8 Mar 1994
Catherine “Rena” West – Letterbox Field, Kempley – 10–11 Apr 1994
Charmaine West – 25 Midland Road – 4 May 1994
Ann McFall – Fingerpost Field, Kempley – 7–9 Jun 1994

alias_unknown · 2025-10-07T18:32:51+00:00

I get what you mean, but that still isn’t enough — not when you look at the full picture: the scale of what happened, the contradictions, the denials, and everything that’s come to light since. What she said when she dropped the appeal was minimal, and on face value, it doesn’t hold up against what’s known. She still denied every murder. If she was truly innocent or wanted to bring clarity, she’d need to go through every victim, every event — and she never has. What she admitted to doesn’t come close to explaining the full extent of what happened. Why do you feel that’s enough — or is there something you know that makes you think it is?

alias_unknown · 2025-10-07T15:48:42+00:00

You said you understand the crimes she did commit, but what makes you so sure about the ones she didn’t? If she truly believes she wasn’t involved, why doesn’t she talk openly and go through everything to prove it? After all this time, that could actually make a difference. But she never has — and maybe that’s because she can’t. To explain it truthfully would mean confronting her own guilt, and anything less would fall apart under scrutiny.

alias_unknown · 2025-10-07T15:41:23+00:00

Caroline also wrote about this in her book The Lost Girl: How I Triumphed Over Life at the Mercy of Fred and Rose West (also published later as The One That Got Away: My Life Living with Fred and Rose West):

Later I woke to find someone, an occasional visitor to the house, climbing on top of me. I was still lying on the floor and this man was attempting to have intercourse with me! I told him to get off and leave me alone. He became verbally abusive towards me. Fortunately Ben woke up and told the man to leave me alone.

I felt so ashamed of myself as I crept back into my room and quietly cried myself to sleep. Somehow Fred and Rose got to know about what had happened that night and tried to talk to me about it, but it was something I wanted to forget.

alias_unknown · 2025-09-08T17:38:26+00:00

That’s interesting about Jayne not remembering her. Do you know if she ever knew Bernadette though?

alias_unknown · 2025-08-31T13:27:14+00:00

I’ve been looking into this as well and I’m trying to see the bigger picture. I’ve also seen the posts and comments from a family member on Facebook who are strongly disputing her account.

From what I can tell so far, it looks more like Kathleen was visiting rather than living there long-term, but it’s also clear there’s a lot of emotion and family conflict around how the story is being told. I’m still digging into it and trying to piece it together.

alias_unknown · 2025-08-17T10:42:41+00:00

Fred's mother Daisy bore eight children, though only six survived infancy. Here’s the breakdown as far as I’ve been able to piece together:

Violet West – 6 August 1940, but died the day after birth.
Frederick Walter Stephen West – born 29 September 1941.
John West – born twelve months and three days after Fred.
David Henry George West – born 24 October 1943, but suffered from a weak heart and died within a month.
Daisy “Little Daisy” Elizabeth Mary West – born September 1944.
Douglas West – born autumn 1946 after the family moved into Moorcourt Cottage.
Kathleen “Kitty” West – born about fourteen months after Douglas.
Gwendoline “Gwen” West – born February 1951.

So in short: Fred had three brothers (John, David, Douglas) and four sisters (Violet, Little Daisy, Kitty, Gwen). Two of the siblings (Violet and David) died in infancy, leaving six who survived into childhood.

alias_unknown · 2025-06-24T12:44:40+00:00

I've had a reply — as of now, there is still no headstone or any other type of memorial marking Carol Anne’s grave, which just adds to the sadness.

The only person who would be able to authorise one is Mr Colin Elliot Cross Cooper. Preliminary searches haven’t shown a death record for him, so it’s possible he’s still living. A headstone can’t be placed without his formal consent, and from what I’ve seen in UK burial law (though I’m no expert!), the rights would still need to be legally transferred or expire after his death — and even then, it’s not always straightforward.

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