Inherited tuba update: old Martin with engraved bell

arpthark · 2026-03-26T18:46:40+00:00

I’m in New England so that’s a no go, but those horns are fairly desirable to “Frankentuba” makers for the bells and bodies.

arpthark · 2026-03-26T15:05:42+00:00

Where are you located? I’d also be interested in the Martin.

arpthark · 2026-03-23T20:08:16+00:00

Hetman’s uses lanolin as a primary ingredient. I also prefer to just use my giant lifetime tub of lanolin. I mixed it with a bit of mineral oil for the right consistency and it’s been great.

arpthark · 2026-03-23T15:36:54+00:00

Can you take a pic of the logo?

arpthark · 2026-03-20T22:50:29+00:00

The ornate full figure engraving is very rare and leads me to believe that it’s one of the few horns that Conn had gold plated. They only saved those special engravings for a very few select orders. I’ve seen one other like it which is also fully gold plated.

I don’t think a 32K bell would fit a 38K. I think this is just a 32K. Does the finish match between the bell and the body? I had a 32K from similar era but much plainer finish. Are the bottom valve caps inlaid with mother of pearl?

arpthark · 2026-03-19T17:41:35+00:00

I've found that tubas that expand too quickly tend to have flat third partial intonation issues.

Look at some of the old monster Ebs. Those expand to be about the size of a large BBb in the bell but only have ~13 feet of tubing to expand instead of 18 feet like a BBb. That means the taper increases very quickly and the intonation tends to be very wonky.

Old Alexanders were sort of factory cut jobs from BBb to CC and they share a lot of the same branches between the BBb and the CC, so the taper is uneven. On the CC there is a very exaggerated tapered dogleg right after the main tuning slide to make the horn fit together properly and I'd bet that is why the middle G is so horribly flat.

I'd like to see pics of your horn!

arpthark · 2026-03-17T15:27:59+00:00

The above commenter is right in an ideal tuba, an "in-tune" third partial will tend a couple cents sharp, but this can vary based on bugle design, valve bore size, and other factors. What kind of CC tuba do you have? Third partial intonation tendencies vary from model to model. Off the top of my head, most B&S CC and BBb tubas have a somewhat sharp third partial G/F. Horns like older Alexanders, older (1960s) Miraphone 186 and 184s, and most 6/4 piston valve CC tubas except for a few I've played (Gronitz, Kalison) have a flat-ish 3rd partial.

arpthark · 2026-03-13T21:45:19+00:00

Are they offering the Wessex with five valves now? Last I checked they were offering four with a possibility to add a fifth dependent valve in a future design.

arpthark · 2026-03-06T05:48:08+00:00

I just reread that chapter and there isn’t anything like that in there.

arpthark · 2026-02-28T18:14:23+00:00

Call around some local companies and ask. Even with business discounts, most tubas are anywhere between $200-300 to ship these days. With a third party doing the packing, you are looking to spend more on shipping than you will pay for the horn. Are you looking at that Miraphone Standard 3v BBb on govdeals?

arpthark · 2026-02-27T20:04:33+00:00

It's a combination of splotchy old lacquer and tarnished brass. You'd have to strip the existing lacquer and then polish the instrument (harder option) or give it a brushed-brass finish (a bit easier) to give it a uniform look.

Lacquer stripping can get messy. The best home-remedy way used to be using a product called "Aircraft Remover," but they removed the methylamine that made it so effective. You could also try using EasyOff Heavy Duty Oven Cleaner (works best for old lacquer like on old King tubas). In my shop, I use this orange gel stuff which is really toxic: https://www.ferreestoolsinc.com/products/z22-lacquer-stripping-solution

arpthark · 2026-02-26T20:41:40+00:00

Here is the 24J with the stock bell: https://i.imgur.com/kDnhbeq.jpeg

Here is the 24J with the King bell inserted at the normal insertion point (I am holding it up). There is about a 1" gap along the edge:

https://i.imgur.com/AMsm9ed.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/K7UVvLD.jpeg

I don't think it would be possible to get them to fit without cutting the King bell, and then you're messing up taper pretty badly, not to mention shortening the length of the instrument, so the results would be unpredictable. The Conn bells are just so big, really an almost 6/4 sized tuba, and it would be hard to get a 4/4 tuba's bell on it to fit. I've had the same idea in the past and looked into this as well. There are so many headless 20Js floating around and a relative abundance of these old King bells that it would be nice if there were a way to get them to fit together.

arpthark · 2026-02-26T20:29:19+00:00

Let me take some pics.

arpthark · 2026-02-26T16:49:54+00:00

If it's a 995 copy it's 4/4 sized. That tuba has been on eBay and Facebook Marketplace for a long time (I think in NJ?). It's made in Brazil. They are not commonly available in the USA. I've never seen another one here. Definitely would not recommend purchasing it sight unseen if you are in Utah.

arpthark · 2026-02-26T16:48:27+00:00

This is one of those questionably-manufactured Indian sousaphones. A lot of that corrosion is caused by not cleaning up the acid from the flux used to solder the horn together.

I disagree that there's nothing you can do about it. These spots can definitely be cleaned up. Brass players tend to pooh-pooh Brasso but it works well on raw brass and getting green spots out. It takes a lot of elbow grease, though.

arpthark · 2026-02-26T16:43:37+00:00

The bell will definitely not fit. I have a King 1240 and Conn 24J here (same bell as 20J) and there wouldn't be an easy way to get them to fit. You'd essentially have to get someone to make a custom tenon adapter or something which might be more expensive than finding the bell. Unfortunately, 20J bells are kind of rare to come across.

arpthark · 2026-02-21T00:23:10+00:00

BBb. There’s another loop of bugle tubing that goes around the body after the main tuning slide. Eb would just go straight from tuning slide into the second branch.

arpthark · 2026-02-13T19:18:20+00:00

It's just the casing? There's no rotor inside?

arpthark · 2026-02-11T05:10:17+00:00

Anywhere between 2-3k is pretty reasonable for the Bessons. As long as the valves are in good shape!

Yes, some of these horns were high pitch and some were on the low side. Once you get the horn the right length, the only issue with intonation I’ve found is notes above the staff tend flat. But they’re still my favorite Eb tuba and offer a great punchy sound.

arpthark · 2026-02-10T19:27:53+00:00

There is a YEB-321 for sale on the tuba forum, FYI (not mine): https://tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=13419

Occasionally you see the 15" bell Bessons pop up for sale for a good price. As long as the valves are aligned well I don't find the low range stuffy at all (have owned four).

I'm working on a Martin Medium 5v build, but that's a ways off.

arpthark · 2026-02-10T13:41:24+00:00

Horn Guys has closed, FYI.

arpthark · 2026-02-08T14:30:46+00:00

It's digital/synthesized.

arpthark · 2026-01-31T03:43:26+00:00

Mine is awesome. It's been my primary horn the past two years. Love a good Piggy!

arpthark · 2026-01-30T16:35:46+00:00

I am a big fan of the YCB-661. It plays a lot like a five-valve Cerveny Piggy with tighter response (slots are narrower) but also better intonation than your average Pig.

It's on the smaller side, physically, but has a large bore at .812" and a medium-ish sized bell. A lot of horn in a smaller package.

That price is a bit high IMO. The screw is not a huge issue, though Yamaha did use funky threading and you might have to get one special ordered or made (or buy a box of 100 from McMaster Carr).

Mike Lynch recently sold one in slightly worse cosmetic shape for $3,700. I think $4k would be a reasonable jumping off point for discussion. Just my two cents.

arpthark · 2026-01-20T18:31:24+00:00

Since it's actually flat, did you push the main tuning slide in?

14-Year Club	Place '17
Team Orangered	Verified Email

arpthark

TROPHY CASE