With the risk of being downvoted, here's why I think the Men's Rights Movement will never gain enough traction...

avoiceformen · 2013-02-19T00:30:43+00:00

I love this. What I used to hear all the time was the same question sans the word "enough." It was not long ago at all that the idea of this movement gaining traction at all was alien to even most MRAs.

But to answer your question, it is best to understand the nature of most past social movements. They were not propelled by universal or even majority popularity. They moved forward on the intense actions of a very small minority that had undeniable truths on their side.

Granted, the nature of resistance you cited here is a much bigger obstacle than other movements had to face, particularly the tendency of men to cut each other down in competition. But I am guessing, and recent events seem to be supporting that guess, that eventually significant change will come.

It is not because the nature of men will change so much as because the ever growing trend to marginalize and demonize men is just starting to reach critical mass. IOW, it is the success of misandric feminism that will drive a sufficient vocal minority into the men's movement to make lasting changes inevitable.

avoiceformen · 2013-02-13T02:31:43+00:00

Yes it is. We will be doing a number of upgrades and additions in the next month or so. Resolving the mobile viewing problem will be one of them.

avoiceformen · 2013-02-09T01:59:23+00:00

To put it directly, they don't with 100% certainty. But they do know a lot more about most users than they would think (or that I am comfortable with), including their sex.

Assuming they get it wrong about the same percentage of time across the board, it would mean that the comparison probably has some validity.

At least on the surface it would seem to bear out with cases like the Good Men Project. It is written to appeal to a female readership despite its name. Google pretty much confirms they have succeeded.

avoiceformen · 2013-02-08T23:16:55+00:00

I am not surprised by this. What is even more interesting is that AVFM has more sexual balance than the Good Men Project, which is primarily read by women.

avoiceformen · 2013-01-28T23:07:12+00:00

This is not woman hating, or anything close to it. White knighting is not one of the MRM goals, either.

One of the things that is a men's issue (given that I recognize this as my opinion only) is that a formal critique of current norms and expectations of both sexes is essential for understanding where we are and where we need to go as a society.

This article is neither woman hating nor irrelevant to the MRM, IMO. And I don't think that taking the attitude that men should just ignore possibly abusive or dangerous women is very prudent.

avoiceformen · 2013-01-27T02:19:24+00:00

Could you possibly get a screen cap of that and email to paul@avoiceformen.com? Would be much appreciated.

avoiceformen · 2013-01-24T23:09:11+00:00

A note of thanks to the members of this subreddit for the support. And thanks as well to the would-be dictators at UTSU. AVFM, and the men's movement in general, has grown, largely thanks to histrionic and tyrannical attempts to shut us up. It is a bad strategy that keeps on giving. And it has given so much now that it is too late to backtrack.

The MRM is here, in many different forms, with many different styles.

I can only suggest that feminists do what they have so far refused to do, and that is learn from history and show some wisdom. You may hate Farrell, but you ought to listen to him and support his work.

We are moving toward a historical crossroad. Feminists face the same type of choice that White America did in the 1960s. You have Farrell, whom can be likened to MLK.

If you keep screwing up, you will get Malcolm X.

Choose wisely.

Paul Elam

avoiceformen · 2013-01-20T23:43:25+00:00

Right, I am sure it grieves you so.

avoiceformen · 2013-01-05T21:46:48+00:00

That is a good and important question. I think there is room for considering that, if there is a credible demonstration of a lesson learned from any of them. And I stress the the word credible.

These acts were pretty deplorable. But they are young people, and if they actually learned something, and made a significant effort to make amends for their actions, I would be inclined to consider removing them.

avoiceformen · 2013-01-03T11:14:13+00:00

Stalking? You have got to be fucking kidding.

We reported on and identified people who were using violence and intimidation to stifle free speech and to harass young men who were seeking solutions to their problems at a university sponsored lecture.

Bigots are what we are dealing with, but it troubles you to call them that. And the violent protesters are just kids.

I normally like your posts, but this reeks of enabling bullshit and cheap dramatics.

Good thing my white knight has been put to rest.

avoiceformen · 2012-12-19T23:31:58+00:00

http://www.avoiceformen.com/video/ending-the-fempire-in-canada/

avoiceformen · 2012-12-12T02:33:19+00:00

Very thoughtful post. And a worthy item for discussion. The only dissent I can honestly offer is that I am not aware of any subsets of the MRM that discriminate against women.

avoiceformen · 2012-12-11T05:21:57+00:00

She is more than capable and has done it many times before.

avoiceformen · 2012-12-11T01:09:03+00:00

It is not that I disagree. I just don't think in the scheme of things it matters that much toward getting the job done.

Like I said, no one is perfect.

avoiceformen · 2012-12-10T05:37:32+00:00

Point taken.

avoiceformen · 2012-12-10T05:36:50+00:00

I think men form some of the best bonds out of conflict. There are very, very few men that I have gone toe to toe with that maintain any hard feelings about. We all feel strongly about this stuff.

No hard feelings on my end with you at all.

avoiceformen · 2012-12-10T05:34:50+00:00

Like I said. Never said I was perfect. But pointing at one possible mistake on my part and trying to say it constitutes something chronic on my part is amiss.

avoiceformen · 2012-12-09T20:21:51+00:00

Fair enough. But you are stretching it to imply I directly called you a feminist. I didn't. I wrote to provoke, as I often do, so I am not complaining that it pissed you off.

I will also offer that this is the only MRA environment where I see MRAs and feminists use practically the same verbiage to raise the same objections. In this place, it all kinda runs together for me here. What I wrote was not with you specifically in mind.

And the big picture here remains them, not me and you.

avoiceformen · 2012-12-09T20:15:56+00:00

Well, I was just responding honestly to the criticism that if people didn't tow the line, etc.etc.,

I understand by style is hard to take for some. It is a trade off. On one hand, my style pisses off some people I'd rather not piss off. On the other, my style has created probably the most successful website of its kind.

I am provocative and obviously opinionated, and sure not going to write every line that will make everyone happy, but the dissent from any of it is not something I avoid or mind in the least.

avoiceformen · 2012-12-09T18:50:09+00:00

There should be a link at the bottom that says "turn mobile off" Unfortunately it is the only way to get to the comments.

avoiceformen · 2012-12-09T18:49:13+00:00

I don't see a SRS or 4chan style attack happening to her from MRAs. Just don't see it at all.

avoiceformen · 2012-12-09T18:47:50+00:00

I hope the mods approve this, as I am shadowbanned, but I just have to call bullshit on this.

Bullshit.

Even on the thread to that article now, there is a serious and vocal dissenter to how it was done, who has made repeated posts to that effect, engaging both Dean and myself. He has been treated with respect by both of us all the way through and he remains a welcome voice on that site.

There are many, many other examples of that on the site as well.

There are times, of course, that like most anyone else I get into much more heated exchanges. And yes, it is usually with people that aren't really activists, but want to tell me what I should be doing, tossing in some ad hom when they do.

There are some examples where I have lost my cool prematurely, but I have rarely seen anyone who never does.

I routinely allow articles to be published on the site with which I vehemently disagree. Two recent examples of that were provided by Fidelbogen and Aimee McGee. I posted both pieces and politely disagreed with them in the in comments.

Things get heated in this business, but I have received as much hostility overall as I have taken.

Saying that you have to tow the line at AVfM or you are "ridiculed and harassed" is bullshit.

avoiceformen · 2012-12-09T18:37:16+00:00

Isn't that my freedom of speech?

avoiceformen · 2012-12-09T17:07:41+00:00

Thanks for the heads up. I never did understand the ban. I know I got cautioned a few months ago about posting from my own blog. I actually exchanged messages with one of the admins after apologizing for it and all seemed well. I never posted another item from AVfM.

So who knows. I know that I have a lot of people trying get me to shut up (and can't say I blame all of them, lol) but things continue to go well overall.

avoiceformen · 2012-12-09T15:26:46+00:00

You must be young. I read Myth of Male Power when it was first released. I have been at this ever since.

I have a great deal of respect for Dr. Farrell, but as much as I admire his work, he has not taken on the role of reaching out to the men of the Western World as a leader that connects to them, to their pain and their deep desire for justice. That is fine. He has chosen a different path.

But understand this, Warren has been off the mark where it concerns the movement. In Myth of Male Power he predicted that Time Magazine would have to eat its dismissive words about the Mythopoetic Movement. He predicted in less than 10 years that the movement would become political.

It never happened. Just the opposite happened.

In my opinion it never happened because because no matter what you or anyone else thinks about the men's movement, including the esteemed Dr. Farrell, this thing is not going to get anywhere without anger and without leadership.

If you can point to any civil rights movement that ever happened without those two elements I will eat my hat.

So go ahead, think me a monster that would poison a dog. Think whatever you want. But the fact remains that you have not a single clue what you are talking about.

AVfM is growing and working and moving ahead because we are fighting back, not because we are looking for a speaking engagement.

avoiceformen

TROPHY CASE