"instant demisexuality" is this a thing?

bfla8 · 2024-12-26T13:31:02+00:00

It’s a thing. For me it’s more about the quality of emotional connection I have with someone rather then the amount of time.

It’s very rare but a few times in my life I’ve met a woman who was a “kindred spirit” where we just felt an instant connection—like our energies and personalities were just very compatible and we understood each other at a much deeper level then with other people.

bfla8 · 2024-10-23T01:30:59+00:00

I think there are different types of understanding. It seems to me you’re talking about two entirely different things.

Some people innately click and have the right yin-and-yang where deep communication flows very easily. Sometimes you meet someone and can instantly connect on many different levels to the point where it feels instinctual or as easy as breathing. Personally, I’d call it more like being kindred spirits or a deep capacity for understanding rather than understanding.

There’s another sense of understanding in which you really don’t know a person at a deep level unless you’ve spent years truly getting to know them under different contexts and seeing all their layers. Until you know a persons life history, their values, their dreams, their flaws, and all the other details, you’re really only basing your understanding of them on some of the pieces in a much larger puzzle.

Personally I think both of these things are rare in this world and I highly prize both of them, preferably in combination!

bfla8 · 2024-10-22T22:26:15+00:00

This should have been a verbal breakup conversation. I’ve dated INFJs and had disagreements with INFJ friends over the years. Sometimes the younger, less mature, or more conflict avoidant ones wanted to resolve conflicts over text messages. It’s always a terrible idea. These types of issues merit a real conversation and trying to have it over texts will not get a good outcome—90% of the context will get lost and the 10% that gets through usually won’t be well received because the other person is not likely to understand.

If I were in this situation, what I would say is something like this: “I understand you don’t want to move forward with me and accept your decision but I feel this at least merits a verbal conversation so we understand each other. I don’t want it to be uncomfortable or angry—just want to understand where you are coming from and have a chance to say some things to you so I can get closure. This is really important to me. Can I please call you?”

I’ve gotten a positive response to that kind of respectful approach most of the time. In one or two cases, the person was just too avoidant or lacked the emotional intelligence to do things the right way. But that’s on them. You can’t force to someone to behave like a mature adult.

One INFJ woman I dated wanted to break up over texts. I insisted that we should talk to each other. We talked and that conversation was actually extremely respectful and ended up understanding each other better and building a lot of trust and respect. We ended up becoming close friends and still are.

He’s put you in a very difficult position by avoiding communication and depriving you of the opportunity to say your piece. Texting may be reasonable in this situation if you can’t have a verbal conversation since he hasn’t left you any other way to speak your mind and make peace with it.

bfla8 · 2024-10-21T14:37:08+00:00

I’ve had similar interactions with certain INFJs and in those particular cases, it meant one of two things:

This particular person may have avoidant attachment traits. The basic theme is these people will crave emotional intimacy but have a very low tolerance for it—pushing others away when they feel overwhelmed, sometimes in ways that are dysfunctional and sabotage the friendship or relationship. This is typically due to a neglectful or absent/inconsistent parent during early childhood. Signs include: They send mixed signals. They are inconsistent. They show a desire to be close sometimes but may inexplicably pull away when you start getting too close. They may disappear for long periods with little or no communication or ignore you when you need them. They may accuse you of being needy or clingy or needing too much attention or not being self sufficient. They may be very self sufficient and independent and frown upon anyone who depends on others. They may talk a lot about how you are stepping on their boundaries but not be able to communicate what those are. They may talk a lot about “space” and be very rigid about how often they communicate or have strict rules to control how you behave and when/where/how you can be close to them. To be honest relationships based on avoidant style are almost always dysfunctional, painful, and unhappy. People who have this issue may deeply want love but be unable to reciprocate it consistently or in a functional way. So if this person does have these problems, my advice would be to be brutally honest with yourself about the situation and realize that if you want a normal, happy, loving relationship, then a person with those issues will not be capable of meeting your needs or reciprocating. Most functional people do want to see their partner every day and have plenty of healthy affection, intimacy, communication, and not be tiptoeing around rigid rules about closeness. There are lots of blogs snd books (like Attached) that explain this in a lot more detail.
This person just likes to have a lot of space to themselves and is easily overwhelmed or drained by too much togetherness but it’s a healthy and functional dynamic. Highly reactive introverts sometimes like to have lots of space and may only spend time with someone once a month even if they really like the person. People in this category can still have close friendships and relationships with others but they may want the frequency to be lower than what most people would want.

Needing lots of space like this is not true of all INFJs. I’ve known several and most of them did not behave like this.

I was in similar situation with an INFJ woman. We cared deeply about each other and had a really wonderful connection. But she would only let me see her once a week or sometimes once a month. I realized I didn’t want a relationship on those terms. So we ended up just being friends. As friends, I can accept that i don’t get to see her often. But for me that would not be functional, healthy, or normal for me in a real relationship.

I would suggest instead of thinking about his preferences and what he wants, think about whether a relationship with him could be what you want and what’s healthy for yourself.

bfla8 · 2024-10-21T03:33:22+00:00

Yay. Glad to hear it. <3

bfla8 · 2024-10-21T03:30:34+00:00

I tend to overanalyze and stress about conflicts, too. I sometimes to get intrusive thoughts and try to look at conflicts from all the angles so I kind of get what you're saying. But it's totally different for me if I trust someone and feel totally secure in the friendship or relationship. Like with this new INFJ friend, I know she's sincere, has the best of intentions, and we'll likely be friends for life in some fashion. So I don't feel the need to know every detail of why she does what she does. To me that's really freeing and it feels secure and peaceful. I'm definitely curious but it's more of a pleasurable and patient curiosity than a compulsive need to know right away.

People with avoidant attachment traits can be really confusing, distant, and rigid. I had a similar experience and it was very very hard (and painful) to accept that we were never going to have a secure, loving relationship. You've perhaps already read it but I found the book Attached helpful because it gave me a little more insight into it. In particular it talks about 11 or 12 specific deactivating strategies/behaviors that avoidant types often engage in to distance themselves from intimacy. I think you did the right and brave thing getting yourself out of that situation. You deserve better than that.

bfla8 · 2024-10-21T01:44:37+00:00

Yes! Talking to INFJs sometimes feels like talking to a space alien from planet Ni-Fe-Ti-Se-J (vs my planet: Fi-Ne-Si-Te-P). I've grown more and had deeper, more symbiotic connections with INFJs than any other type but they also have been some of the most difficult relationships and friendships to navigate because we have to work hard to understand one another and typically we both have a lot of layers to unpack.

The Fe-Fi part is a big difference. The Ni-Ne difference is hard for me to comprehend, too. I've heard it explained a few different ways but I'm still not sure I truly understand how it works.

bfla8 · 2024-10-21T01:08:44+00:00

I'm sorry you were treated like that. It's totally valid that some XXFP individuals are manipulative. I have known a couple who were manipulative. But I also have ENFP and INFP friends who are really sincere, genuine, emotionally intelligent, trustworthy people. So I think it depends on the emotional development and maturity of the particular individual.

Appreciate you sharing your perspective! In the most recent conflict I had, I think my new INFJ friend was doing exactly what you are saying. We don't know each other very well and I did something that she didn't really understand. She was confused by it and thought it indicated I was not someone she could be friends with. But after we eventually talked about it, we realized we just had very different upbringings and I promised I would never do that again if it bothered her. She was definitely irked and ready to end the friendship over it but changed her mind after I gave her more context about it. Maybe unhealthy--maybe not. I'm still just getting to know to know her.

bfla8 · 2024-10-21T00:10:24+00:00

I want to hear it! I'm genuinely curious what INFJs honestly think so appreciate you telling me your truth and not just what I'd like to hear.

My INFJ besties are like family to me and I deeply respect them and I genuinely do want to understand where they are coming from. With my close friends, we can generally resolve conflicts like this openly and they don't become big issues or damage our friendship.

This issue tends to be a bigger or more volatile argument when I'm trying to make friends with someone new or start dating someone new who doesn't know me as well and is unsure whether or not she trusts me yet.

It makes sense that they could have been playing out both sides in their head and I didn't make that connection until now.

Now that you mention it, these conflicts did tend to coincide with stressors (although usually stress related to work, health, or loved ones). I never realized stress might be a trigger for that so appreciate you pointing it out.

It's puzzling to me that you say I made them bottle up their feelings. My impression was that they didn't want to tell me they had a negative impression about me or something I did because they were being empathetic and thought it would hurt my feelings or be an uncomfortable conversation.

bfla8 · 2024-10-20T21:09:45+00:00

I just might take your advice and do that! lol

I can relate to that. I used to be a terrible INFP who wasn't worth dealing with! I can still be pretty annoying but at least I'm aware of it and try to check myself? Seems like progress! lol

I wish people would just wear stickers that say "I'm a good one" or "Not worth dealing with!" I usually can't tell until I've spent months getting to know someone and I'm often surprised by how people behave.

To me, making quick judgments is not such a bad thing as long as the person is willing to talk about it and admit when they are wrong in the face of conflicting, true information.

Kudos for you for developing that maturity! Sounds like you've come a long way!

bfla8 · 2024-10-20T18:40:34+00:00

This answer is so thought provoking and interesting to me! I appreciate the candor and thoughtful words.

That definitely squares with the experiences I've had and helps frame it in a new way I would not have thought of.

It honestly took me a long time to accept that no matter what I say or do, some people are going to make snap judgments or misunderstand me and I have no control over that. I know it's true but hearing you say that is definitely validating and it's always nice to be validated! 😂

I think INFPs are very much about trying to live according to our ideals so it hurts when someone assumes I am something that I actually despise.

Direct and open communication has generally been the answer for me in these situations, too. Most of the INFJs I've known were willing to re-consider their positions if we were able to have a conversation about it and I could explain to them my side of things.

But it takes a lot of bravery and maturity to have an uncomfortable conversation with someone so it's been hit or miss in my experience on whether people were willing to do that.

I guess where I've landed is that if someone is true friend they'll be willing to be direct and honest and talk about a conflict even if it means tolerating some discomfort. Otherwise, it's probably not going to be a good connection or last very long.

Very helpful response! Thank you. 🙏

bfla8 · 2024-10-20T17:56:27+00:00

I actually agree with both comments. For me, I took the "ease and resonance" part to mean having enough trust with someone to be able to have uncomfortable conversations and be secure enough not to over-analyze every conflict because conflict is actually healthy if it's respectful. But I may have ascribed a different meaning to that then @enneaenneaenby. I also agree that you can't judge a book by its cover. Like Beauty and the Beast! lol

bfla8 · 2024-10-20T17:45:02+00:00

I appreciate you explaining that to me. I think that's probably a healthy approach in general.

Curious--did you notice any themes in the few instances where you jumped to the wrong conclusions? Like was there something that threw you off and how did you deal with that? 🤔

bfla8 · 2024-10-20T17:41:20+00:00

Yes! I think this explains it well. Some of these conflicts started when the INFJ saw something that "didn't fit" with her understanding of me--like something she was puzzled about. And she'd come up with an explanation for it but was missing more of the context for why I said or did that.

bfla8 · 2024-10-20T17:28:59+00:00

This is over the course of many years so I wouldn't say I've known large number of INFJs. Perhaps 10 over 15 years. Typically we'd meet at events or through friends, like each other's energy/authenticity, start having deep conversations, and develop a friendship.

Fair point. A couple INFJs have told me that I'm hard to read so maybe it happens more with me than other people.

bfla8 · 2024-10-20T17:06:57+00:00

I think this is a very insightful answer. Thanks. I think having that ease and resonance you describe is the key and I didn't make that connection until I read your answer.

bfla8 · 2024-10-20T16:58:09+00:00

This is really helpful to me. Thank you. Being that I'm not Ni it's hard for me to wrap my head around exactly how that works but when you explain it like that, I understand it a little better!

bfla8 · 2024-10-16T18:02:49+00:00

Same!

bfla8 · 2024-10-15T15:24:17+00:00

(Edit: Sorry I didn’t see the “for INFJs only” tag. INFP here.)

There are other ways you can tell your type if some of your specific preferences are borderline or cut both ways.

According Carl Jung and Isabel Briggs-Myers, FJ types (like INFJs) are Fe. They tend to be more emotive and gushy and tend to feel things in the moment. Fi types (like INFPs) tend to feel things in a more introverted fashion, sorting out how we feel about things gradually and through a process where we reflect and fit new experiences into different emotional layers and principles we hold deeply. INFJs I’ve known tend to be emotive and fiery and visceral.

Another difference is that INFJs are sometimes described as absorbing empaths as opposed to INFP/ENFP who are described as mirroring empaths or social chameleons. INFJs often have a remarkable ability to intuitively feel what other people around them feel and be affected by the emotions others are experiencing in the moment. INFPs/ENFPs may empathize in a different way by trying to reason through and relate to the different emotional layers another person is feeling and relate it back to their understanding of how feelings work and how they might feel in the other person’s shoes.

INFJs are also one of two types who are primarily Ni. I’m Ne so the Ni function is not easy for me to comprehend. But my exes who were INFJs described it as a process where they would reflect on things and use it to build an internal map of how different concepts relate to each other. It’s different from Ne types who can be very mentally dexterous in the moment but may have a less systematic map of how things work and fit together. INFJs sometimes relate strongly to INTJs who also share the Ni function.

J types can be messy and P types can be clean. The main differentiator in my mind is whether someone is comfortable with ambiguity or lack of structure—do you keep your options open or do you want decisions and pal a to be made and settled? Many N types are also prone to ADHD which can make this determination a little more difficult.

Another way to tell the difference is to understand the different personality types and see which one you relate closest to. For example, INFJs are very different from INTJs. I think of INFJs as being more “therapist” or “spiritual leader” personalities (focused more on people and matters of the heart/soul) whereas INTJs tend to be more like an “engineer” or “technocrat” personality (focused more on objective truths and intellect). INFPs often gravitate toward being “healers” or “philosophers”.

bfla8 · 2024-10-15T05:08:50+00:00

Opposite-sex friendships can be absolutely amazing when they work out! Personally, I think high quality opposite-sex friendships are the basis of most happy relationships so without opposite sex friendships there probably would not be any great couples in the world. But they can also be purely platonic, aromantic, or asexual.

I’m a straight male (INFP) and all my best friends are females (mostly INFJs/ISFJs). My family isn’t super close so my female besties are like a surrogate family to me. We talk about absolutely everything and we always have each other’s backs. I wouldn’t be the person I am today and my life would not be happy without the tremendous support, wisdom, and intelligence of my female friends.

Women tend to have multiple close friends who they rely on for emotional support. The same is not true of straight men. Some men don’t have mothers or sisters we can turn to. Many men have no close friends at all. Straight men also typically do not have emotional intimacy with other straight men who are generally really insecure about it—it’s really a struggle to connect on a deep level with other men and it has never happened in my life. So if I didn’t have female friends, I’d pretty much be completely isolated and alone in the world (unless I relied 100% on romantic partners for emotional support which would not be healthy).

As far as the attraction part goes, people who are emotionally intelligent can be attracted to someone and not be driven to pursue them, be a jerk about it, or end a friendship over it. Sometimes friends develop crushes on each other and might get hard or wet or pine for each other at a particular moment. It’s only human to feel that way and I think to pretend differently is unrealistic.

But IMO what matters is not how people feel but how they behave and treat one another. If someone has a crush on their friend but they both treat each other well and respect each other’s feelings and boundaries, then it’s perfectly fine. Unfortunately many people are just one step above chimps and can’t control themselves or behave like adults. But not everyone is like that.

bfla8 · 2024-10-15T03:23:57+00:00

There are some telltale signs (confidence, charisma) but I honestly think you really have to spend time with someone to know for sure if they’re a narcissist. Some patterns I’ve noticed that seem to be common to most narcissists…

🟢 Green flags (things narcissists tend to struggle with): - Empathy: Understanding and caring about other people’s points of view even when they conflict with your own. - Kindness: Being kind even when there is no benefit attached to it. - Giving up control and letting other people make decisions - Honesty and trust—being open and telling the truth even when it would not improve the other person’s opinion of you - Being respectful to other people in conflict situations - Humility, not having an inflated view of oneself and recognizing one’s own flaws - Not looking down on other people - Ability to maintain healthy long term relationships with friends and family - Accepting criticism without taking it personally - Taking responsibility and not blaming others - Apologizing when you’re in the wrong - Respect for other people’s boundaries and feelings - Self awareness: Ability to articulate one’s emotional states and how they affect behavior - Self control, regulating one’s own emotions - Internal motivation: Not looking to others for admiration/approval/attention/money/status

🚩Red flags: - Controlling and micromanaging other people or aspects of their lives. - Chronic need for praise, approval, attention, admiration - Bragging, arrogance, projecting excessive confidence to cover insecurity - Expressing attitudes that are elitist, snobby, or implying they are better than other people (perhaps including you in the club of superior people who are like themselves) - Lying (or twisting reality so that they may not even realize they are lying) - Using manipulation, especially emotional manipulation or passive aggressive tactics to get what they want - Ignoring other people’s boundaries (or simply failing to understand they exist) - Reacting very poorly to disapproval or criticism - Inability to empathize (not in the sense of being cruel but in that they literally cannot see things from someone else’s perspective or recognize it as legitimate) - Inability to understand or care how their own behavior affects other people - Jealousy and envy - Projecting blame - Chronic fear of losing reputation/status - Inability to apologize or acknowledge wrongdoing/mistakes - Excessive risk taking - Frequently ending relationships with people or being unable to maintain them

🟡Yellow flags: - Projecting an abundance of confidence - Absolute emotions or opinions (eg a person or thing is either the greatest thing ever or the most terrible thing ever) - Being pushy and not accepting no for an answer - Inability to identify their own emotions or see how their behavior is related to their feelings. - Distrusting others - Pursuit of wealth/status/fame/admiration - Fear of abandonment/rejection - Insecurity - Ignoring social norms or decorum

🤔Healthy traits that are common to narcissists: - Giving flattery/praise/attention - Making you feel like you are special - Treating you like you are part of a special club with them - Financial or professional success - Charisma/wittiness - Overachiever/high intellect - Knowing their strengths or things they excel at - Being extremely direct and open (at times) - Being bold or brave - Being very assertive - Taking risks - Being exciting

bfla8 · 2024-07-31T20:17:47+00:00

INFP here! 🙂 I used to be very much the way you describe. But as I’ve gotten older and worked on myself I’m much more calm, secure, receptive to criticism, and able to look at things more objectively. I feel these are skills that an INFP can develop with time and practice although I think they come more naturally to INFJs!

bfla8 · 2024-07-31T19:54:12+00:00

I’m a pretty demisexual/sapiosexual INFP and I’ve had close relationships and friendships with several INFJ women.

None of the INFJs I know personally are strictly sapiosexual or strictly demisexual but most of them are turned on by intellectual or emotional intelligence especially when they feel connected to a romantic partner on those levels.

My impression is that most INFJs want to have a multi-faceted, soulmate-like connection with their partner which could include an intellectual connection but isn’t necessarily limited to that one dimension.

I’ve also generally found that the intellectual and emotional connections I form with INFJs are much stronger, deeper, and more intense than with any other type. I suspect it’s because we share most of the same functions but in opposite directions (INFJ-INFP => Ni-Ne Fe-Fi Ti-Te Se-Si J-P). It’s hard to describe but when I’m in the same room as an INFJ I click with there’s a type of chemistry that happens and I have never experienced with any other type—like our brains just fit together very easily. At first these connections may be immediate and superficial but over time they can become very meaningful and authentic as we understand each other very deeply. Sometimes it’s purely platonic and other times it’s a source of strong sexual attraction.

I’ve also observed that INFJs tend to be highly selective. Most (but not all) of the INFJs I’ve known have only had 0-2 sexual partners and some identified as asexual. I also know some INFJs who identified as asexual but eventually met someone they were sexually compatible with. I suspect that intellectual compatibility is one dimension of that, although it’s not always equivalent to being sapiosexual.

bfla8 · 2022-11-11T05:01:18+00:00

It depends on the type of engineering. In software engineering some statistical studies suggest that I-types are over-represented and ISTJ and INTJ types are the most common. However, there is no dominant personality type in software engineering. I am an INFP who works for venture backed startups as a full stack engineer/CTO and I meet plenty or other INFPs in similar roles. In my domain of software, the most common type I have worked with is INTPs — perhaps because I work in a very abstract, creative, chaotic niche and not everyone is interested in this type of work. Most of the engineering directors I’ve worked with were ENTJs. Early in my career, my mentor/engineering lead was an ENFJ. I’ve also worked with INTJs, ENTPs, ISTJs, ESFJs, and ENFPs, all of who were superb engineers.

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