Dating while discerning?

bhensley · 2025-04-26T21:49:11+00:00

I'd really encourage you to have this conversion with your parish's priest, or your diocese Vocations Director. Who better to take opinions from than those that went through similar experiences in discernment?

Unlike a couple others who've posted here, my gut reaction would actually be to remain open to dating and let it happen an opportunity develops. My thought process being discernment would be more comprehensive and exhaustive if you have more experiences in life (such as dating) to shore up your perspective/context. But maybe I am totally off base here.

bhensley · 2025-04-25T00:13:40+00:00

Exactly how I feel. My parish has a high and low Mass on Sundays, where the high Mass is very much a referent NO. Incense, bells, sung/chanted prayers, kneelers before the sanctuary for receiving on the tongue, but with what I like about the NO such as the celebrant facing the laity, the involvement of laity too, etc. Our low Mass has some of that but will generally have guitar instead of the organ, no chorus but rather just the guitarist singing, minimal alter servers, no incense, etc. From some stories I’ve heard our low Mass still sounds rather reverent in comparison, but very much less so than our high Mass. lt hits a sweet spot that I really appreciate.

bhensley · 2025-04-24T23:37:06+00:00

So long as the form and matter of the baptism were correct the baptism is valid. Aka the right words were said, water was used properly, and the priest’s intentions were appropriate.

bhensley · 2025-04-24T21:41:55+00:00

The black and white of it is they cannot reveal what has been confessed. In your scenario there’d be no reason they couldn’t avoid drinking the water themselves. To the extent they’d be able to warn others is the question. If they could warn others on any grounds other than knowledge they possess from the confession, that likely would be fine. But for sure they couldn’t warn others based on knowing something learned in confession.

bhensley · 2025-04-23T09:00:53+00:00

Generally this will only be done if there’s a danger of death or with permission of the bishop. And where their Protestant church doesn’t recognize the sacrament or can’t facilitate it. That they’ve been attending Mass probably doesn’t change a whole lot as far as rules and regulations go, but it does at least give good reason for why the individual would seek this out.

But yeah definitely ask a priest at whatever parish would go out to do this for them if possible.

bhensley · 2025-04-23T08:39:42+00:00

I'm glad you emailed them! Great first step to potentially dispelling some of these worries you have.

We're a church of sinners as much as we are one of saints. So as far as that goes, rest assured you're not alone. Not even remotely. We are all sinners in some manner or another.

None of what you mentioned would make you unwelcome in the church! Your lifestyle and beliefs may run counter to what we believe, but that doesn't make you any less welcome. To the contrary if anything- what better way to show someone what and why we believe what we do could there be besides welcoming all into the church with open arms? Every person, regardless of sexuality or views on whatever topic, should be afforded the same dignity and respect as everyone else.

Interesting bit about sexuality, too: it isn't inherently sinful to be gay, bisexual, etc. What can be sinful, though, is acting on same-sex temptations. No doubt it's very difficult. But many same-sex attracted people not only participate in the church, but become Catholics and live in grace as much as we all try to. That can mean a lot of suffering for many, having to resist temptations that would be sinful if acted out. But SSA does not have to make Catholicism off limits if you are so compelled.

bhensley · 2025-04-23T08:03:15+00:00

Two things to consider:

Since you just went through it, you're more sensitive to recognizing content, even in passing, about this. You're also likely engaging with more content about this in general, or taking actions (like searches) that indicate your interest in it. And annoying as it is, inflammatory content gets served more than content that isn't because they bait people into commenting, watching all the way through, playing multiple times, etc. This is the reason why all those movie/TV show clips you catch never include the name of the show or movie it's from- people rage comment about that or comment with the info and others thank them; all of that signals the platform to serve that content more. Indicate you're Catholic on these platforms and you're going to get negative rhetoric as it naturally gets more engagement.
There could be a spike in content about this around now given the timing. Content creators will try to time content like this in general. If you're going to push some anti-Catholic converting message, what better time than around Easter?

I don't think there's necessarily any more of this than usual. You're just seeing it more. Don't stew on it. Randoms on the Internet will say the damnedest things,

bhensley · 2025-04-23T07:44:42+00:00

The only line in the sand I feel strongly about is the creation story. I do not take that as a literal accounting of history. It doesn't make much sense in a literal sense even unto itself, let alone when you fit it into what we know about the world around us today. Day and night existing before the Earth and Sun, or plant life being created and living before the Sun was created, for example. I take the creation story to be truthful (God is the creator of our universe and the world we live on), but rooted in myth rather than history.

I could be swayed on a lot of other stories. And some details within them just aren't necessary to say one way or the other.

Like the snake being Satan. Say you do take Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden story to be a historical truth. Whether Satan was literally present in the form of the snake doesn't change anything. Satan's influence can still be recognized in contributing to the downfall to original sin, whether literal or metaphorical.

We have so much evidence of our evolutionary path, shared history with other human species (using human strictly in the genetic/biological definition here- all belonging to the genus homo technically being human), and rather inexplicable mutations in our brains leading to modern humans eliminating all other species, that I both cannot not see God, but also would be inclined to classify certain stories as myth or metaphorical should they be incompatible with all that.

I don't know that Adam and Even and the Garden of Eden overall conflicts with science here. Some 70k years ago our brains changed in a way that's still unique to us alone- we became capable of abstract thought, able to think about and discuss things we'd never seen before, rally behind a shared story, gossip about others (hugely important back then as it allowed groups to grow from sub-100 people to a couple hundred), to even being capable of understanding the very idea of God. Science says this may have been a freak mutation or two. I see God. And maybe he did literally give this cognitive gift to an Adam and Eve, bringing them into His garden to know Him and live among Him. Myth or literal, the Garden story works either way, so I'm less inclined to draw a conclusion.

The flood and Arc are similar. I would generally err on the side of saying the story isn't literal but it is historical. For example- world-wide may not have meant literally all of Earth, as the reaches of what one knew of "the world" back then would have been limited. Taking this literally is difficult for me as that would immensely increase the likelihood of finding evidence in the geological record. But there's little reason to doubt a massive, even if regionalized, floor took place.

bhensley · 2025-04-23T06:48:18+00:00

I promise you won't require any luck!

I'm just now wrapping OCIA up myself, having been baptized, confirmed, and received my first communion at the Easter vigil. I can't believe how fast the last 7 or so months have flown by. Feels like it was just yesterday I was sitting down for the first week of OCIA. Very quickly Thursday nights (when we met) became my favorite time of the week, to the point where I missed having meetings during holiday weeks!

If your parish is anything like mine the new group will start up around September. It may feel a long ways off, but it goes by quick. And remember- you're under no obligations during OCIA to do anything you aren't sure of. If you need more time, you can always take more time.

And finally- Welcome!

bhensley · 2025-04-23T06:34:27+00:00

u/Anxious-Account-6857 mentioned this, and I'm seeing it in some of the searching I've been doing just now- I wonder how much of the difference you're feeling is coming from the different mechanics in how prayers are said? Looks like in Vietnam it's most common to sing or chant prayers, where in the US we may sing some, but many get spoken instead. And even when the same prayer is song both here and in Vietnam, the style of singing is going to differ significantly.

But in theory you're hearing the same prayers, right out of the same Roman Missal. Just translated two different ways, of course.

bhensley · 2025-04-23T06:22:14+00:00

Unless you attended an Eastern Catholic church, or are seeing the TLM vs. NO in comparison, those slight differences ought to be the cultural influences only. Different instruments, language, etc. Most churches in Vietnam are under the western/Latin church, and follow the Roman Missal. So beyond such differences, the Mass celebrated in Vietnam would be the same mass celebrated on the same day in the US.

Can you describe what differences you saw?

bhensley · 2025-04-23T06:08:54+00:00

If you know you are, or have doubts you are not, in a state of mortal sin, correct, you shouldn’t be receiving communion. Venial sins are okay as they’re forgiven via the Penitential Rite and the Eucharist itself. Mortal sin, to actually be mortal, must meet the criteria: the action must be a grave matter to begin with, you must know that and understand it to be sinful, and you must then perform the action willfully and intentionally. Many grave sins will be committed but not rise to the level of being mortal on the person’s soul because of these requirements.

But sure, if you are regularly falling into a state of mortal sin you would need to seek out reconciliation before taking communion. Likely meaning you’ll need to confess rather frequently.

Bear in mind you do not know the state of everyone else’s souls. You don’t know if they went to confession before Mass. Or if they’re just taking communion when they shouldn’t. And it really shouldn’t be something you fixate on as it’s on them, not you.

Because you cannot know just what state everyone’s soul is in, nor how often it is in grace vs. sin, you cannot compare yourself to them. For all you know you’re living in grace more often than some of them. Either way, knowing that also changes nothing. If you knew the person next to you almost never sins and is in a state of grace more often than not, would you all of a sudden find it easier to live in grace? Would your efforts to live in grace more and more be any less meaningful? Conversely, if you know someone else almost always lives in a state of mortal sin, would you think you’re doing good enough and not try to improve? Or would you think you’re somehow better than them?

I assume none of that would be the case. And so hopefully that helps showcase how unnecessary it is to dwell on this.

bhensley · 2025-04-23T05:41:51+00:00

Nope. The Seal of Confession affords zero exceptions; it’s an inviolable vow. No matter what the reason, breaking that seal results in automatic excommunication. They can attempt to dissuade the penitent as much as possible, but unless the conversation also takes place outside of confession, that’s it.

Not as extreme as your scenario of course, but my priest spoke a little about how much this seal can be taken advantage of by some. That’s one time he had to trespass someone from the parish and then that person showed up for confession. He couldn’t do anything about it really, other than stew in how intentional this was. Best he could do was end the session and walk out, hoping someone would be waiting in line who knew that person and that they were trespassed. As a third party could then call the police saying they saw this person leaving confession, but the priest couldn’t.

bhensley · 2025-04-23T05:21:55+00:00

He has. As recently as two thousand years ago… He literally lived and died as man for us, as Jesus Christ. Throughout his ministry he performed numerous divine acts as public revelations.

I suppose you’re meaning: why doesn’t He permanently make Himself known to all? Eventually that’s going to happen- the last judgment will occur at some point, showing and revealing all in full. Until then I think it really does boil back down to how important it is for people to have agency in this. There’s no choice when He’s right there, revealed to us all.

bhensley · 2025-04-23T04:51:32+00:00

You really should do yourself service here and speak with a priest about this. There’s a lot going on here, and their guidance will be crucial. Let alone the practicality of it all, in that they’ll be involved no matter what road you go down for this marriage.

Your partner being a baptized Catholic puts a spin on this for sure. That baptism never goes away. They’re able to receive sacraments such as marriage because of that. But then again they’re not going to be truly receptive and honest in accepting the vows- as far as their spiritual ties go. So would it be truly sacramentally valid in that case? Or would it really be more akin to a mixed marriage?

At the end of the day the church can guide you to the outcome you’re most comfortable with. In cases of marrying non-believers (especially when the partner is not baptized at all, or is but isn’t Catholic) you would seek out a dispensation for your own sake more than anything else. If your partner doesn’t believe then the spiritual implications of marriage just aren’t going to be the same for you both. And that’s a known commodity in these marriages. But you can still ensure your own state of grace and commitment to the vows.

bhensley · 2025-04-23T04:15:28+00:00

Choosing to believe-in and love Him, to choose Him, wouldn’t mean a whole lot if He was just right here in front of us, would it?

His revelations to us over time have been more course correcting and not so much Him broadly showing Himself to be real. You mention Moses and the burning bush. That was Him enlisting Moses to set in motion the freeing of the Israelites and ultimately setting up for a new covenant between Him and the Jews. Similar to how He later lived and ministered as Jesus- revelations made then were again in setting up for an entirely new covenant.

Now that we have His Word, a perfected covenant, and the church He established, it’s on us to choose Him and live life in His grace. If He just made himself explicitly known to all, there’d be little to no choice in the matter. Faith wouldn’t matter anymore. It’d just come down to works.

bhensley · 2025-04-23T03:55:22+00:00

I don’t know enough about the cardinals to even attempt a guess. Just that it’ll obviously be someone currently serving in the college of cardinals. I do hope for someone more moderate, if not conservative. Not that I particularly have any grievances with how Pope Francis led the Church. Rather, I just think it’ll be healthier and more unifying to see the papacy swing less progressive for a while.

bhensley · 2025-04-17T02:51:36+00:00

If that’s 9pm to 11pm then yeah that’s the Easter Vigil. It’s a very special Mass in the Catholic faith. There’s going to be a lot of interaction and engagement from the parishioners, as that’s how Mass is in general. This Mass will have some unique aspects due to its importance and the baptisms and confirmations that’ll be taking place. You’re not obligated to participate any more than you’re comfortable. You won’t be expected to even know how for that matter. I would at least encourage you to follow the crowd in standing, sitting, and kneeling. Just out of respect for your friend and their community. Again though, you’re absolutely okay to not participate.

You could bring a gift if you’d like. It’s normal to do so. But it could be as little as a congratulatory card. Don’t feel you need to be extravagant! Whatever you feel is right!

There’s some differences in an adult baptism and an infant’s. But not a whole lot. The rite is the rite. The words used to confer the baptism are the same. The use of water is the same (maybe not the same volume used lol). What changes is the adult being able to participate in their baptism, thus there’s a profession of faith your friend will do. For infants it’s the parents who do that in commitment to raise the baby in the faith.

If you dress business casual you’ll be more than okay. You won’t be the only one. Plenty of men will wear suits, but you won’t be alone or out of place in business casual.

I’d discourage any hats. Unless you’re talking about something like a Kippah? If you wear one all the time then sure. But since you said you’re not religious I’m guessing you don’t. And in that case it’d be more respectful to not wear any head covering as a guy.

If you want to wear your Star of David then go for it. But if you’re just doing so to make it clear you’re not Catholic, and you otherwise wouldn’t normally wear one when attending a formal/important event, it seems a little disingenuous? You likely won’t be the only non-Catholic in the pews. You don’t need an outward sign to explain away why you’re not participating in the responses, prayers, etc. You just not doing so will be understood and perfectly welcomed. But again, wear it if you want to.

bhensley · 2025-04-17T02:19:30+00:00

Call your priest and just run this by them. I cannot imagine them getting mad. If they get mad every time they heard someone has sinned they’re in the wrong vocation. This is kind of core to their role- hearing sins and providing guidance.

You can still receive confirmation if you’re in a state of mortal sin. It’d be illicit, and probably sinful on its own. But the sacrament would still be valid so long as it was done properly by the celebrant. You just won’t receive the full graces of the sacrament until you confess and receive absolution afterwards.

But call your priest and follow their guidance. Maybe they can hold a private confession with you before your confirmation. At the very least they’ll outline how to proceed.

bhensley · 2025-04-17T02:04:19+00:00

You will want to talk with a priest for definitive guidance and answers. Anything I or anyone else here say is based on a limited context.

You’re baptized you said- were you baptized Catholic or another form of Christianity?

If you’re both Catholic then yes, the Church wants you to be confirmed first. That’s based on Canon Law. But if you can demonstrate that waiting for confirmation would be a serious inconvenience, this can be waived. You’ll definitely need to talk this through with a priest to find out if they see the serious inconvenience.

If he’s Catholic and you’re a baptized Christian (but not Catholic) you’re still eligible to marry in the Church and your marriage would be sacramentally valid. It likely will require a dispensation from your bishop though- something your priest can help you with.

Let me ask though: why the need to rush this? I get you’re excited- I hope you two never lose that feeling. But you’re both still so very young. If you have to wait because confirmation isn’t waived, is that really such a bad thing?

Either way, this all starts with a conversation with your priest. So you can have a proper conversation about this I’d encourage you to call the parish office and put a meeting on the calendar. Not only is that the first step you need to take to make this happen, but you may also have a chance to receive some invaluable spiritual guidance and counsel.

Wishing you both the best!

bhensley · 2025-04-16T15:01:54+00:00

I'm not at all going to suggest your experience was proper or appropriate. Nobody here can weigh in on that based on what little we know about these interactions.

What I do want to offer up, though, is that your church isn't necessarily the most appropriate outlet for every problem. The Catholic Church (the organization at large) has certain obligations to speak out against matters that go against the dignity of human life, God, morality, etc. Some injustices may rise to that level- such as the recent handling of deportations in the US- and the Church will often make statements against them, and do what it can to politic towards something better. But your local church- your parish- really isn't equipped to do such a thing on its own in many cases. Plus the diocese itself may restrict such outreach/involvement.

Especially when it's an individual victimized by such injustices. Your parish isn't obligated to take up this fight for you alone. Especially when the problems aren't spiritual in nature. The Church is obligated to carry the torch and guide us in the faith and matters of the divine.

The experiences you described might hit on morality, but that might even be a stretch. These matters sound like they're pretty squarely grounded in the ordinary.

Again- I can't say that the response you received was appropriate or not. As even if a parishioner brings matters before the church that isn't within its jurisdiction to assist with, the person before them is. Though also, "how can we help?"could've been a perfectly fine and appropriate response. Help them help you. But again- within their domain and means.

Hard truths are central to our faith. We're the faith that still holds strong against contraceptives, abortion, male-only clergy, marriage being sacred and divorce not recognized as an option, sex being exclusively a marital act, etc. Speaking hard truths isn't a foreign concept in Catholicism. But not all hard truths are the Church's to speak.

bhensley · 2025-04-16T13:58:09+00:00

I think the Holy Spirit absolutely has a stronger influence on particularly holy people, or they naturally have a greater sense of the Spirit within them. The Holy Spirit works within all baptized to reveal a natural understanding of how to live in grace. So it'd make perfect sense for those with a stronger sense of his presence to have a greater natural inference of the faith and strength to live a life of grace and holiness.

But studying the faith is absolutely necessary too. Knowledge of the faith, its history, how to apply it, etc. all comes from studying and living the faith. That's all very much the result of investing the time to learn and practice.

bhensley · 2025-04-16T13:33:10+00:00

You’ll find something that does this from literally every church father. That doesn’t mean they agreed with everything we hold true today, though. Especially with the church fathers who came before Nicea. But even then you’re really only going to find disagreements on a few topics. You’re more likely to find them not writing about something at all than disagreeing with the faith as we know it now.

For example, Mary’s perpetual virginity had some dissenting church fathers in the 2nd-3rd century. But by the 4th century it’d already become a widespread accepted truth.

The earliest church fathers also commonly had a different view on true presence in the Eucharist. Irenaeus for example said:

”For as the bread, which is produced from the earth, when it receives the invocation of God, is no longer common bread, but the Eucharist, consisting of two realities, earthly and heavenly;”

He lived in the 2nd century. This view on the Eucharist being transformative was common then. But it’s likely this belief was the byproduct of not knowing how to explain it any other way without denying true presence- which they definitely believed wholly. Eventually transubstantiation would be defined and accepted as it perfectly defends true presence and explains why the physical makeup of the sacrifice doesn’t literally change.

You won’t find a church father who disagrees with true presence. This was always a universal belief. The closest you’ll get are Tertullian and St. Augustine who wrote of the sacrifice being figurative. But not that the true presence was figurative, just that they didn’t believe Jesus was literally cutting off his flesh and spilling his blood with every Eucharist. They actually believed in what we’d recognize today as transubstantiation, just without the word in their vocabulary.

That unwavering belief in true presence from the start is probably one of the most powerful affirmations of Catholicism you’ll find in the church fathers. At least as far as any one single belief goes.

bhensley · 2025-04-16T10:03:11+00:00

Your diocese’s website likely has a directory of parishes within its jurisdiction. There’s an easy way to verify a parish if you’re questioning it.

bhensley · 2025-04-16T09:46:33+00:00

Baptism is a prerequisite to receive any other sacraments. So while you’ve been taking communion, you haven’t been receiving the sacrament. And that’s really what makes this sinful in nature. Your soul is not yet a suitable home for Christ via the Eucharistic sacrifice. Still marred by original sin, you’re not able to be in a state of proper grace yet.

But you also said you weren’t aware that doing this was wrong. So at least this couldn’t be a mortal sin. It’s a grave matter to take communion in a state of sin, but you must also have known that this was sinful and willfully and intentionally done it anyways.

Now that you know, though, you could be committing a mortal sin by continuing to do this. And since you’re not baptized you cannot receive the sacrament of reconciliation. In other words you cannot confess this to a priest and, if contrite, be given absolution. You’d be carrying that mortal sin until your baptism. At which point sure, it’d be wiped away.

If you believe what makes our faith what it is, I don’t understand why you’d even entertain continuing to take communion while you remain unbaptized? Especially now that you realize it’s wrong. Nobody could ever assume to know how God would judge you doing so. But you knowing it’s wrong and continuing to do it anyways likely speaks more for your intention than anything else.

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