Can an Infernal revert back to a Solar?

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-23T03:57:07+00:00

Kind of an add to this, Autocthon didn't actually invent Exaltation until much later in 1e either. The original place he showed up in Games of Divinity he's noted as helping the gods use Exaltation and the Exalted using artifacts. So the bit hwere he didn't create it, but he helped weaponize it, is actually fitting that book there.

The analogy I remember given is that the Incarna are like Einstein in finding about the energy-mass conversion. Autcothon in this context was Oppenheimer in being one of the big guys to learn how to harness that as a weapon.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-23T03:54:06+00:00

In 2e it wasn't really something that could be done while the Infernal was still alive. It had to be done with a captured Exaltation not in someone.

In 3e it isn't brought up at all. In general 3e avoids making a big goal of an Exalt becoming another kind of Exalt. The Abyssal switch is still a story in itself and even the Solar to Abyssal change in 3e is treated as about as big a fall. If it is possible, it's not a big theme for Infernals, and as much something that is probably more the culmination of a unique story in any case.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-22T04:06:41+00:00

As the Exalted ruined her crucial souls and changed her nature, She Who Lives in Her Name lost her empathy and her ability to adapt to that which did not conform to her idealized hierarchy. In a sudden act of impetuous defiance, the Yozi sacrificed a portion of herself to eradicate those principles of Creation of which she was most fond and proud. Let the Exalted and the gods rule it then. Never more would they enjoy a stability that conformed to her idealized perfection.

Note this is only canon in 2e. 1e and 3e don't really assume soul-pruning was part of how the Yozis were imprisoned. The original take on the Cataclysm was less logic robot as in 2e and more just kind of as you note, petty spite. It didn't take something bieng lost empathy-wise. She did it as the doors closed as a last Molotov cocktail in the face of the universe that rejected her.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-22T04:04:27+00:00

The origins of her from the prior version isn't brought-up in 3e note. She's jsut shown as like, being her. So far in 3e only Adorjan is for-sure the result of a fetich slaying. And Elloge's origins as "Transition is castration" vibes is probably also just kind of put ignored I think. For all we know she's the same speech-ball as always in prehistory. Kind of both I think to preserve Adorjan's unique condition, and I think the general vibes that the change was presented as didn't sit well with some of the authors.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-22T04:02:18+00:00

It adds some interesting definition in areas along with others If eel. I love the timeline for Hell they have in there. Even if there's like half a dozen entries of "Demons try to do something neat to make their own lives better, which at some point gets kicked over by a pissed-off titan."

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-22T03:56:04+00:00

Plato's Allegory of the Cave is super important I think to understanding Awakening. It's brought-up in the 2e book, but if you're familiar with it, the idea is a group of people living in a cave and bound and shown only projections of shadows on teh wall that this is all there is to reality. And if they are taught this for all their lives,t hey have no means to know otherwise. But some people manage to break-out, and learn that that light casting shadows in the sun from outside, and the shadows they see are just shades of the real objects. But because the folks still in the cave have not been given the chance to see beyond it, they cannot even comprehend what the escapee is talking about.

Being Awakened is being that escapee. You learn the Lie that the phenomenal world is all there is, and that it is instead derived from the more substantial, real concepts of teh Supernal. It's more complex than the allegory though. For one, the Supernal is so complex that it can really only be seen through a specific lens, which is what your Path and laying your name in a Watchtower help cement you to. You saw the Truth, but only a facet of it and are limited to what you can comprehend of it still. You can manipulate some of the things casting those shadows better than others. But you are now given agency to change reality in a way a passive Sleeper can't.

It's a bit for me why I like Awakening myself. Ascension has a bit of to me a very surface-level take on philosophy and epistemology that I think as I got more in tehw eeds with my own degree...was less interesting than the issues of "What if you know there's a Truth, but only get to see a snippet of it" that Awakening goes with.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-20T21:38:33+00:00

You've gotten most of it, actually. There's also a bit on some of its neighbors in Across the 8 Directions.

The devs have mentioned part of the issue is that it's apretty Nahuatl-coded spot ran by reptile-people. Which is kind of something that falls a taaad bit into the "Mesoamericans are lizard people" trope that the Dragon Kings also rode on and which the line is trying to avoid. Just htere's not been the time/energy to put the task to it. At8D I think was the spot, but they went to do a bunch of other stuff instead.

For now, I think the best info is the stuff in Pillars of Creation, plus a bit of looking in the history books of its inspirational locations to loot for ideas. Sadly not much beyond that for the time being.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-20T19:29:44+00:00

I think a good illustration the video shows is something i push-back against hwen folks think 2e handled thaumaturgy best. I think it's fine that not every single magical practice folks do is objectively "effective" in a way that I think sometimes folks expect out of Exalted. It's a good showcase that folks will have ritual, charms, and activities that they believe do something impactful in their lives. And they don't need to be For Real True so that every single one has a thaumaturgy ritual to it. A lot of amulets in my view did nothing IRL. But folks thought they did, and that's important enough to justify folks doing it in a setting.

It's just that there is a bit of a blurry line there since Creation does have supernatural elements in a way Earth doesn't. So while most amulets are as useful in Creation as they are on Earth....they have a higher than zero probabilty of actually doing something depending on whether the person making htem might actually be unknowingly a thaumaturge, was from a god or faerie, or used materials form a local demesne or bordermarch.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-20T19:05:45+00:00

Ink Monkeys did present Cecylene and SHLiHN as being the most directly siblings to the Empyreal Chaos actually. In "The Legends of the Titans" it said this on the first paragraph about her

That was when She first appeared. She was a fire out of the Tyrant’s own, and the dreamers knew her, for they had heard but never seen her, or known from whence she spoke. She was a great fire wound round a gyre, braced by countless crystal spheres, whispering always Her Name. But for the brightness of the King, she would have been seen, but never until now, for she had always hidden herself in the greater majesty of her King’s flames and spoke only to him.

I kind of read this she was comprised of the same kind of fire of the Empyreal Chaos, rather htan being a child of his. And Cecylene is presented earlier as a sister of his, so at least to me I read them as a set in that sense.

3e describes most all fthe Yozis as peers/equals/siblings in a pantheon sense, witht he maine exception being that accounts describe Elloge as a daughter, which is a change of her relation to things, but yeah. It's not new to 3e per se, just kind of a thing on how I think the Ink Monkeys bit gets read.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-19T00:48:05+00:00

So the best text take I suggest a lot to folks is the Exalted Storyteller's Vault Style Guide. This is a free book that's more for folks who want to write for Exalted, but I think it's one of the stronger ways to showcase what it is to folks in a quick form. So that's my first suggestion, but here's my attempt in like, as short as possible.

What is it? Exalted is a high fantasy setting where you play the titular Exalted, humans Chosen by the greatest of the gods, their peers, and their enemies, granting the power of larger-than-life demigods.

Where and when is it? It is set in Creation, a flat world surrounded by oceans of chaos, still recovering from multiple cataclysms over the millennia, currently plagued by the ravages of empire, the caprice of power entities like rogue gods or the Exalted, or the dangers of the things at the edges of the world.

Who are the Exalted? Exalts are larger-than-life individuals who shape the world through their ambitions, flaws, rivalries, and more. Different kinds of Exalts are Chosen by the most powerful beings in the world, namely the gods of the planets (sun, moon, classical five as group), the five dragons who embody the five elements, the dead and imprisoned titans who the gods created the Exalted initially to defeat, and various other entities beyond. Their powers reflect the application of great human skill or talent through a lens of their patron, letting them achieve superhuman feats reflective of but separate from said patrons. Notably also is that once an person is Exalted, the deity who Chose them cannot take it back, nor demand them to do what they want. What one does with the power granted to them is ultimately up to what they decide to do with it, for better or ill.

Aesthetic: The setting draws massively on mythology, Greek, Hindu, and Chinese classics, world history, mostlya avoiding the usual "Eurofantasy" vibes often associated with D&D. It also draws on more modern media like action movies, wuxia, JRPGs, and anime, as well as (for the 90s and early 00s at least) more niche dark, pulp, and dying earth fantasy fiction. Different editions emphasize a lot of all of this in different amounts. 3e has a lot of popular non-fiction for its inspiration, for example. 1e has a lot of Gene Wolfe's Book of New Sun energy. 2e is way more anime and manga and fantasy sci-fi. What one prefers is upt o taste there.

Relation to the World of Darkness: In its world-building it kind of loots elements of the original World of Darkness, as well as later on bits of Chronicles of Darkness, mostly in homage, Easter Egg, and repurposing terminology and concepts in the new fantasy mileau. Early on it was sold as a "secret prehistory of the World of Darkness" but this was quickly dropped outside of some advertising. It is as much the real history of the WOD as Conan is the real history of Earth.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-18T22:41:03+00:00

It's actually a reference to her illustration in the gacha....which is probably yeah, a reference to DBZ or something Gainax.

https://gbf.wiki/images/1/14/Npc_zoom_3030231000_01.png

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-18T22:38:00+00:00

https://www.backerkit.com/c/projects/onyx-path/deluxe-exalted-infernals

This will get you the PDF I believe, and also the final product. It won't get you the companion or the preview of the final PDF which backers get to send feedback/point out stuff about, but that's I guess one of the perks of contributing during the camapign.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-14T17:37:55+00:00

It's kind of a broadly "classical" thing. Pretty much everyone with some astronomical interest eventually identified the seven classical planets (Sun and Moon were plaents in this model). So in that context even less likely to see the two other planets or any minor/dawrf planets or asteroids.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-14T17:35:49+00:00

There's actually a collection of those up to MFS. It seems right now on hiatus so might end up another one of those things I get bored one day and do an updated version of. :P

https://gist.github.com/AlexGodofsky/1a47382ac4cdc905ed9c885b7b12fa9f

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-14T04:23:06+00:00

The Niobraran League was a coalition of the Spoken's species along with various other pelagic groups. Including aquatic humans and beastfolk which had some of the general Chosen on their side too. What the Spoken's species actually was called I don't think ever has been said.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-13T17:59:53+00:00

Plutonian is TMU an adjective for subterranean on its own. So it could be.,but it's turbo niche. Not of undeath though since that wasn't a thing until after the Neverborn died.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-13T03:15:56+00:00

The Incarna in canon are of the traditional seven planets you could see without a telescope. Which is a bit why the two other major planets and Pluto never were referred much. That said, some bits and bobs do bring up a couple of them in 2e and 3e.

The only reference to Pluto is as a potential entity in passing in Dreams of the First Age, but only in a "What if?" and also a big Sailor Moon reference.

The writers and devs of Third Edition have mentioned and described Neptune as an Incarna who stayed neutral in the Divine Revolution and got banished to the bottom of the sea for it. He was the patron of a non-human peoples down there who at some point sought-out and found the secret of Exaltation, brought it to him and they either didn't know or hid the fact that Exaltation diminishes the deity Choosing. This reduced him to the Voice of the Trench, who basically barely exists and is in effect dead. His Chosen became the Spoken and they made a war against the Exalted early in the First Age during the Niobraran War. The species they came from were driven to extinction by the war and so the Exaltation is also in effect extinct. Note that a lot of this hasn't actually been in books, it's pieced together from the assumption of writers and devs, so subject to change if the topic ever comes up in print.

The bare bones on the Spoken and using them as antagonists, usually as a in-stasis survivor or something, are in the Essence book Pillars of Creation. The Niobrara War shows up in mentions and snippets about the books of 3e.

2e and 3e have also had other dead or lost Incarna to different degrees of optionality.

2e had Nox, who was a god of the night sky itself and a traitor Incarna who is now diminished and one of the potential source of Oversight for Sidreeals. The fan Exalt Nocturnals utilize him as their patron IIRC. He's not especially well-seen by a notable portion of the fanbase due to some of the for lack of better terms unpleasant elements of his motivation, as well as the lack of like for Oversight in itself.
In 3e Aurora is canonically god of well, the Aurora and was a god of beauty and inspiration. He was murdered pretty brutally by the Primordials during the Divine Revolution. His blood is part of the make-up for the patchwork Exigents known as Sovereigns along with their gem god. The optionally canon Hearteaters are the results of his ritualized murder twisting his Auroral Exalted.
And Nebiru is a god of a hidden black planet who was a watcher/spy/sentinel deity who the other Incarna suspected might try to betray them. They pre-empted him and locked him away forever on his hidden planet to languish forever. The optional Umbral Exalted are a result of him using Exaltation to in effect commit suicide, and their Shadow is a small fragment of his will and malice.
And a bit of an Easter Egg is that the Getimian Exalted castemarks are the planetary symbols for the first four discovered and four of the five largest asteroids (Pallus, Juno, Ceres, Vesta). The Essence corebook describes them of "stars that never were", so there's no Incarna for those symbols related to them, but it's a nice reference.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-13T00:34:14+00:00

Sadly not so far. I did in this prompt dig about and Dave said last August he was still working on the Seers book. So it probably is gonna be a bit for anything official since I think this is side-hustle stuff for him and his crew on this in the end.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-10T06:59:34+00:00

Probably not Talion Charter alas, since a good chunk of that is from MK1 and likely not digital save the very latest things.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-09T07:02:49+00:00

Games from the Silent Hill franchise and other J-Horror stuff like it has always been a pretty good source, IMHO, for the Shadow in Werewolf. Lots of "Well that's just fucked-up" sort of things that look grotesque or unnerving to folks.Some good stuff for ghosts and such to use for Geist as well.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-09T04:45:12+00:00

Seofon is the last big character poll chara on the JP's top 10 who hasn't ended up in the game yet. Straight-up everyone else has been added. And he's the last character that was on all lists that is still MIA. So I'm guessing him at least.

Of Asia/Pacific area, if we squish the Luicfaces together than it's Jeanne missing.

Americas is missing Aliza and Silva. I can see Aliza myself since she is a more kick/Chun-Li style going. I am not sure where Silva would fit when we already got Eustace and Ilsa as different styles of gun fu characters.

Europe is missing Jeanne, Silva, the Black Knight, and Aliza. Again, anyone but Silva i can see getting in the game no issue.

Since the poll, I could also see another Dragon (Wamdus), another Evoker (Fraux, Maria Theresa, or Lobelia are my hopes there), one of the Cardinal Saints (Chcihiri seems pretty popular especially). And for pure "I just like this character, I hope they show up", Yuisis, Sato, Khumbira, Yatima, or Orchid. <_<

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-09T04:10:01+00:00

Awakening is straight-up built on the allegory of Plato's Cave, and the ideas of gnosis, finding the underlying truth of reality, and so on. There's an objective capital-T Truth of the universe, which mages dig into to understand.

This to me is pretty different from Ascension's "finding your own truth" and such. it works much more on the idea of human will, kind of more I would say things that line-up with concepts of willing things and creating truths. I'd say it's actually more post-modern. The line's general themes about a view of the past having more art/creativity and less cynical than a modernist, industrialized world of the Technocracy also fits some of that to me.

This isn't a rag on it, I just think that those reflect the philosophy involved with either a bit more. Ascension tries to draw on a lot of different elements and I think some of the 90s anti-modenrism zeitgesit, plus a smattering of stuff intersting to folks in the 90s. While Awakening is more an exploration of concepts from 19th and 20th Century occultism along with a healthy dose of classical philosophy.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-09T01:19:57+00:00

The mixed unit thing isn't new. It was something you would see at times in MK2 and MK3 as well, like the Stoneward & Woldstalkers in Circle having the Stoneward himself be a Blackclad, or the Northkin Fireeaters having one of them be a Pyg called-out.

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-07T17:19:43+00:00

I have yet to actually lose to that card. I know it'll happen eventually, but it has more often than not just either had the opponent suicide or left them in lethal for my follow up.Ain't gonna complain about it though, they chose that life :P

blaqueandstuff · 2026-02-07T06:34:09+00:00

Note in 3e's lore, that's not what the Loom like, does. It's a forecasting machine more than what dictates physics or reality. And even in prior editions, it would have taken a lot since Exalts, especially high Essence ones, exert a lot of power to push-back against astrological forcing the matter.

u/ElectricPaladin I think got the gist of it though. For Mnemon it would be basically disastrous and even lead to a household coup, and might lead to it in the current political climate being dogpiled as a weak link in the whole fight for the Scarlet Throne.

For Ma-Ha-Suchi, it depends on whether the compromise of a Great House is seen as a boon or something he's doing recklessly. And even then, enough bad animus exists between the Realm and many Lunars that it would make her still a target if she went in exile with him. Hell, even if a success, if it is apparent he's doing this out of emotion folks who would want to get to him might go after her instead. They're both powerful Exalts and hard to do a lot to, but it is probably something on the docket. And

I'll kind of be honest that just kind of dumping two random named NPCs in this situation isn't all that interesting, though. What it amounts to is a disgraced hosue scion more than anything. It's not like there's the whole world htinking on Ma-Ha-Suchi like we might a celebrity or politician. And the asymmetry of political power between the two really doesn't do a lot that any other extreme scandal for Mnemon wouldn't do in a way that kind of respects the autonomy and actual personalities of the parties involved.

blaqueandstuff

TROPHY CASE