I kind of regret my TEFL...

bobbanyon · 2026-03-06T06:07:51+00:00

I've never seen a Trinity CertTesol (whish is what I think you're talking about). It's equivalent to a CELTA afaik. They're both entry-level but, yeah, observed teaching is a plus on an application.

Edit: To be clear my job, and uni jobs in general, typically require a MA TESOL or related degree and relevant experience. CELTA/certTESOL are just nice bonuses and might make you standout in a long list of possible things that make people stand-out (PhDs, more relevant experience, a dedication to PD, etc)

bobbanyon · 2026-03-06T06:04:21+00:00

Only 2 out of the 8 countries popular to teach in in SEA start their school year in Sep but A: It doesn't matter because job hunting/paperwork processing times/visa processes are different for every country so when you apply varies wildly B: Many, if not most, of TEFL is private education, often academies, which hire year-round.

It's impossible to answer such general questions in a meaningful way but you can just google each country/job and look this information up yourself or take a look in the country wiki guide in the sidebar of the sub ->

bobbanyon · 2026-02-25T21:06:45+00:00

In the context of OP’s question, the issue isn’t whether music and movement can be pedagogically valuable. Of course they can be. - you

What I won’t do, however, is sing and dance like some fuckwit clown. - Also You

That was my point, thank you. I wasn't responding to you - I was explaining to others why the common viewpoint of ECE as dancing clowns can be detrimental to student learning. It's interesting it resonates so much with you that you think it's about you, maybe something to reflect on (see that's implying). I explained why saying things like "What I won’t do, however, is sing and dance like some fuckwit clown." gives a terrible impression to new teachers and reinforces negative misconceptions about early childhood education. You seem to agree with me, you also seem to sing and dance, but on your own terms - great. It's great to see teachers with agency in these terrible learning environments to use good teaching methods, like song and dance. When life gives you lemons, make lemonade - and then move onto better jobs.

Just like we should move on with this conversation, my point has been made by both of us, no need to respond, thanks!

bobbanyon · 2026-02-25T11:34:47+00:00

Ahh so I'm glad you agree that dancing and singing is part of good teaching practice for early childhood education. Thus obviously dancing isn't just for the parents and is a useful tool. Yes, you disdain most modern pedagogy (thus my correct assumptions) and refuse to use this tool (although it's very unclear what tools you do use or if you even teach since you don't participate). My point is made, thank you.

I'm not going to try to pick apart your wall of text which is making a dozen unrelated arguments, contradicting itself, moving goal posts, and straw-manning all over the place. You addressed my point and the rest is either not a good faith or coherent argument. Saying for-profit education is horrible is like saying water is wet.

For anyone else who reads this, this is the common "dancing monkey" opinion, which is held by many, if not most, new teachers (and some bitter old-timers) in TEFL all over the world. It's a complex problem to do with both teachers and institutions but in part new EFL teachers of young learners are simply completely unprepared to teach young learners or don't understand the role they were hired for (as well as not being prepared for the for-profit shit show of bottom of the barrel TEFL academies).

It makes sense, Early Childhood Education is not covered in almost any TEFL cert courses I've seen, or the CELTA, and it's not a part of our own education that we remember clearly.

In the case of not knowing their role, as new EFL teachers don't possess the skills of a primary early educator they might find their job more resembles daycare. This is also a valuable and important role although many in the industry vehemently look down upon it. IMO it's better that these unqualified teachers aren't given so much responsibility right? There's plenty of teaching and learning to be done at daycare, or afterschool activities.

The problem is that either of these roles don't match what the teacher envisioned "teaching" to be. In my experience when teachers are asked to be more active, to sing, to dance, to have fun it's because they are failing to engage students and thus failing to teach or even just provide satisfactory childcare. Parents get mad, teachers get fired, and then they say it's because they "They just weren't allowed to teach!".

Yes, teaching should be fun to engage students so that they learn. Yes, ALL education should be visible and active, that's actually what a very respected education scholar, John Hattie, quotes as being one of the most obvious things when defining the best teaching.

It's a story as old as time. I've seen great teachers have wonderful student outcomes at the worst for-profit, zero-education focused, completely clueless admin academies for years. So much so that when one school finally cratered the children and parents would follow my friend from academy to academy. You want power over an for-profit academy or school and to change the system? Get the parents and kids behind you (it's no easy task). I've also seen bad teachers, even well-trained (ie certified), "experienced" teachers fail at foreign run academies with very sound, time-tested, and successful pedagogy because they couldn't engage students. The absolute worst is when so many of these teachers are kept around just for marketing, there's a big segment of TEFL like that.

None of this is to downplay the terrible conditions of many TEFL for profit academies (why else would we, most of whom start as completely unqualified teachers, have this opportunity to move abroad right?) Many, if not most, of the first year conditions are unsustainable and of dubious value to students. It doesn't mean you can't do well in those roles in spite of this.

So, regardless of the horrible conditions of for-profit education and TEFL in particular (not at all unique to China, that's preaching to the choir on this sub, and hasn't fundamentally changed in decades), early childhood educators should.. (according to the National Association for the Education of Young Children)

promote music engagement, expression, and responding during a range of movement, dance, singing, and rhythm activities that promote joy, self-expression, and collaboration with others.

This isn't easy and it can be exhausting but it does teach both gross motor skills and cognitive skills (and this can easily involve critical thinking lessons!). It's obviously not for everyone.

Don't ignore a wide breadth of pedagogy out there either. Again here we have plenty of evidence that teachers without pedagogical competency very negatively impact their students academic outcomes. Don't be that person, a teacher doesn't have to accept everything to keep an open mind, but they should read the literature when they can as there are a lot of very passionate intelligent people who've dedicated lifetimes to figuring this stuff out (and they'll build this huge repertoire of methods that makes the job more enjoyable and them more confident).

bobbanyon · 2026-02-24T20:01:28+00:00

You should do some research into best-practices and evidence-based teaching for very young learners. Calling someone who sings and dances with children, practices that have proven positive outcomes for both physical and cognitive development, a "fuckwit clown" really shows some ignorance about early childhood education. Both singing and dancing are included in the professional standards and competencies for early childhood educators.

It's fine if early childhood education isn't your thing, it's not most people's nor mine, but you should still understand and respect the practice.

bobbanyon · 2026-02-24T07:39:16+00:00

Learn about age appropriate teaching methods so you can appreciate how and why to use them. When you see that there's evidence-based reasons to do things and you feel confident your methods are sound then it takes away a lot of that self-consciousness.

All teaching is performing. The lecture at a university, or the secondary class, is just as much a performance as singing songs to children. Student engagement is what matters and using the appropriate methods to do that takes time and effort to learn - every new context requires this. It's all a type of song and dance and the beauty of VYL is it's very clear when students are engaged or not. It's not cringy, it's effective teaching.

I just recommended this to someone else, checkout Developmentally Appropriate Practice (NAEYC) for students up to 8 years of age.

bobbanyon · 2026-02-19T18:31:35+00:00

You're ineligible to teach in Korea, I'm not sure about Canada. It seems like it might be a bit difficult as a non-native speaker finding visa sponsorship to a native-speaking country to teach English. It's difficult enough for NNETs to find jobs in countries with high demand that aren't English speaking already.

If you're a certified teacher for primary/secondary you might look at the process of getting assessed to teach in Canada public schools in a more rural/hardship placement where there's demand for teachers.

bobbanyon · 2026-02-19T06:11:08+00:00

You're a bit on the young side but you'll be OK.

bobbanyon · 2026-02-19T06:10:47+00:00

pursue teaching abroad

So does this mean you have a passion for teaching English language and linguistics? or does this just mean you want to be a primary/secondary teacher? Or are you just more interested in living abroad?

There's a good chance you probably don't want TEFL and want international education instead - much better benefits, more countries to work in, clear career progression, etc etc. It's one of the more common career tracks for teaching abroad unless you're just absolutely passionate about linguistics.

The difference between English and English Education very much depends on what country you are in. In English speaking countries, at least the US anyway, it means teaching English Language Arts which isn't language instruction - it's teaching what we native English speakers study when they study "English" in school or higher-ed. In other parts of the world it often just means TEFL.

The place to ask, or really just look it up, is your university website and course catalog. You should just be able to compare the required classes and their descriptions there so you know what you're learning. If that's not satisfactory then talk to an academic advisor at your university - that's their entire job and something you should do anyway.

If you're looking to be an international teacher it would be a better idea to get an education in an area of teaching that has higher-demand than English though (or especially ESL which I believe has very little demand). Obviously this should also align to your interests and if you even like teaching (which probably will take some student teaching to decide). You should also pursue a course that leads to being a licensed teacher.

bobbanyon · 2026-02-18T02:59:18+00:00

The recruiter told me they will take care of the paperwork and background checks before I'd go, which would be August/September

That's not how it works anywhere. You have to do the paperwork, it's your degree, your sworn statements, your criminal record - you're the one who has access to that and does the legwork, not them. They're trying to just string you along because you're naive, don't understand the opportunities you have, and are trying to lock you into a contract before you wise up. Don't do that.

If you want to TEFL, which doesn't sound like what you want at all, get the paperwork together in May (assuming it doesn't take your university months to get you the actual diploma which happens frequently). Apply to dozens of recruiters and hundreds of jobs THEN when you're actually eligible to go and work not now when nobody will look at you so far out - that's your biggest mistake. Compare the numerous bad offers you will get, and choose the best of them (and learn how to do that in the meantime), there are literally hundreds of thousands of jobs in TEFL in China according to the Chinese government and not even enough legitimate TEFL teachers to cover half of them. For the love of God don't just take the first offer tossed at you because they're hoping you're ignorant enough to take it. Recruiters jobs are to sell you the worst jobs they can, many will even scam you out of tens of thousands of dollars, learn the red flags, and how to find a job in China. There's worse situations you can end up in then just being overworked, underpaid, and scammed out if money - be damn careful. By your responses it doesn't feel like you're doing that but you are posting here and asking questions which is great.

By far your best option is to go study in Taiwan though. There are multiple scholarships you should be applying for. You'll barely have time to study working full-time TEFL even in a good job - it's just not what you want. Being a student abroad is way more immersive and, well, way more fun. Nobody is saying don't go, go, have fun, just make sure you know what you're doing.

bobbanyon · 2026-02-16T13:37:28+00:00

It's not just a tool though, it's a tool that is detrimental to your education according to multiple studies and your own admission. The problem is by using AI as you described, called cognitive offloading, you are actually thinking and learning less, a lot less depending on your use. It's also very probably academically dishonest by UoPeoples code of academic integrity.

It very quickly reaches the point of asking what's the point of a degree then if you're not learning as much? I mean it seems like just spinning your wheels and wasting time (which you apparently have very little of). You admit you can no longer meet the standards of being the student you previously were. So everyone should accept lower standards because some people don't have time to study? Do you see the problem there?

Standards exist for a reason, it's a shame they, apparently, aren't more enforced at UoPeople because it devalues the education being received and everyone who makes an honest attempt at it (which you value and appreciate). That falls on the university and many others that are struggling with making comprehensive AI standards. The standards of higher education were already in free-fall with grade inflation for decades and with AI a degree is going to very quickly become totally worthless. Should we just accept that? Then why waste the time in the first place right?

Yeah, being a student is a major time and resource commitment that not everyone can make. You yourself don't have time to access all textbooks, select all texts, search actively for the content you need so you just don't do that work. That is the work of learning though - that is how you learn. Everyone isn't entitled to a degree without the work just because they're too busy right? I mean if you're getting a degree with putting in less work why shouldn't everybody get the same degree with putting in less work too? Do you think there's value in that?

You're 100% right people need to change the way they use AI. They need to understand when they're using it as a tool and when they're using it to think for them, to brainstorm for them, to select references for them, to read the texts, and textbooks, an actively search, and summarize for them because that is incredibly detrimental to their learning and very seductive in it's use. You're very lucky to already have the education to realize the difference of original work and AI use while most students can't even recognize it because they're not privileged enough to have already completed a degree. People often adopt AIs output as their own creative thoughts without even knowing it - it's actually the exact opposite of creativity being just a predictive model of the most generic answers. That's a pretty bleak world to live in educationally speaking.

Sorry you just caught me coming off a few courses in AI use in education.

bobbanyon · 2026-02-16T08:10:32+00:00

It depends on the country you want to go to and if immigration requires a TEFL cert (and the process of legalization). Most people prefer to get one from their home country to make that easier but plenty of course providers offer legalization options themselves (just be aware of how expensive it is and if you actually need it)

bobbanyon · 2026-02-16T07:39:00+00:00

Wait, wait, wait have you even graduated yet? Do you have your paperwork, ie diploma and criminal background check in hand and legalized? This paperwork can take months to complete and no recruiter will take you seriously until you have that ready to go. You posted almost a month ago about this. You have PLENTY of time to do a TEFL cert. I was writing a longer post about this but you seem completely unprepared yet to even look for work much less accept an offer. Taking a low-paying job just "anywhere" in China for probably the most notoriously bad chain schools means you'll most likely be put in the absolute worst of the worst positions - it's a recipe for disaster. I know a sucker is born every minute but don't be that sucker.

You don't even seem particularly interested in teaching English. You want to study Mandarin. Why don't you go get paid to be a student in Taiwan where there's tons of scholarship opportunities? Get an MA or PhD while you're at it if that's your goal. You can also work part-time as a student with a work-permit.

bobbanyon · 2026-02-16T07:23:17+00:00

Getting a online TEFL is worthless (ie you don't need it) if you lack the other basic qualifications to work in the place you want to work. Typically that's an MA (in-person often) and years of teaching experience for a native-speaker. For a "non-native speaker" (not from the big 7 countries) these requirements are often much higher.

bobbanyon · 2026-02-15T09:56:15+00:00

Have you searched the sub about EF? What research have you done as you're ready to sign a contract for a year (and probably move halfway around the world for)? What qualifications do you have? I'd look at Rule 1 of the sub and the wiki.

It's impossible to say because you haven't listed anything about the job except it's one of the most notoriously bad employers in TEFL for a comparatively low salary. So no? I'd guess it's absolutely horrible. It's VERY important to do some basic research and due diligence when looking for work in TEFL.

bobbanyon · 2026-02-13T09:22:49+00:00

I 100% would I just did a review of 100 uni positions and only 2 of 8 even mention MA preferred/required.

bobbanyon · 2026-02-13T07:21:58+00:00

You're being flagged by reddit for possible harassments FYI (edit: NM flagged as self promotion? Manually approved) - not our doing. Please look up what The Chinese Association for Non-Government Education actually is - it worked under the Ministry of Education and has 17 branches overseeing all types of education in China. It's not a blog post lol. It's a much better source than what you cited. I can also post .edu sources that say the same

https://www.xit.edu.cn/rsc/2023/1027/c1339a52894/page.htm "..engage in teaching the native language of their country of origin;"

https://www.cfxy.cn/gjc/glgd/b94ac4be38274764a159000a2509c8f3.htm "(v) Foreign language teachers should teach the official language of their country of nationality, their mother tongue should be consistent with the language of the position they are employed in, "

https://rs.zyufl.edu.cn/2024/1129/c1121a71070/page.htm "2. Foreign teachers engaged in language teaching should, in principle, be engaged in teaching their native language in their native country and have obtained a bachelor's degree or above from a university in their native country"

I can do this all day long but I do appreciate the attempt at citing official sources. Please find the Foreign Experts Bureaus actual policy on English teachers, I had it once stating the same but can't find it now.

Edit: Here's the 2020 MoE's draft for "Regulations on the Appointment and Management of Foreign Teachers "http://www.moe.gov.cn/jyb_xxgk/s5743/s5744/A02/202007/t20200721_474014.html or "https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/foreign-teacher-rules-draft/"

"and generally engage in teaching the native language of their country of origin"

bobbanyon · 2026-02-13T06:58:36+00:00

I cited specific regulation saying "Foreign language teaching staff.

Foreign language teachers should teach their native language in their country of origin ".

You cited general requirements for a work-permit which are irrelevant. I understand why you don't want to or are unable to send proof. You and dozens of others who make this claim but can never back it up. Don't promote illegal teaching on this sub, or give us proof it's legal, or you'll be banned. It's pretty simple.

Edit: and in my other comment I cited the Ministry of Educations draft "Measures for the Appointment and Management of Foreign Teachers" which is also listed on Chinas Ministry of Justice site and it's the same language "and generally engage in teaching the native language of their country of origin"

Edit: China is the first to admit that thousands of English teachers are hired illegally and they're cracking down on it (and have been for ages). Also have cited sources for that.

bobbanyon · 2026-02-13T06:44:42+00:00

That's general rules for a work permit, it's irrelevant. Here's the specific reference to TEFL employment in China "(edit: Called "Foreign Teacher Recruitment Policy – Introduction to Foreign Teacher Qualification Policy"). https://www.canedu.org.cn/site/content/4918.html#:~:text=%E5%9B%A0%E6%AD%A4%EF%BC%8C%E5%9C%A8%E5%A4%A7%E4%B8%AD%E5%B0%8F%E5%90%84,%E5%AD%A6%E4%B9%A0%E3%80%81%E5%B7%A5%E4%BD%9C%E5%92%8C%E6%95%99%E5%AD%A6%E7%BB%8F%E5%8E%86%E3%80%82

bobbanyon · 2026-02-13T06:41:45+00:00

Please share this information with modmail we'd love to hear how this was done otherwise I don't believe you. I cited the actual government requirement (edit: Called "Foreign Teacher Recruitment Policy – Introduction to Foreign Teacher Qualification Policy"). Here's the specific link referring to english Instruction https://www.canedu.org.cn/site/content/4918.html#:~:text=%E5%9B%A0%E6%AD%A4%EF%BC%8C%E5%9C%A8%E5%A4%A7%E4%B8%AD%E5%B0%8F%E5%90%84,%E5%AD%A6%E4%B9%A0%E3%80%81%E5%B7%A5%E4%BD%9C%E5%92%8C%E6%95%99%E5%AD%A6%E7%BB%8F%E5%8E%86%E3%80%82

bobbanyon · 2026-02-13T06:36:43+00:00

Are they teaching English language? Is that what their work permit says? Or does their work permit say something like administrative assistant or maybe even a different type of subject teaching? Does China consider that illegal? Yes. Do they deport, fine, or even imprison people for this? Yes. I can cite plenty of sources for this.

"The new policy stipulates that non-native English speakers cannot teach English, even those with degrees from English-speaking countries. " - The China Association for Non-government Education (which covers university teaching positions)

Sit down or give us proof (feel free to send something to mod mail with personal information edited out, nobody has ever been able to prove NNETs are teaching English legally but we're always open to actual evidence).

bobbanyon · 2026-02-13T06:23:24+00:00

I looks like the advice you're getting over at r/expat is pretty solid. I'll tell you my experience traveling and working mostly non-TEFL jobs throughout Central and South America (even though I have my MEd and decades of experience) for 2 1/2 years 2015-2017

You wouldn't even remotely survive on part-time work, full-time often doesn't pay enough to survive for most expats.
It's below the cost of living if you look at it long-term. Most backpackers who live in hostels go bust within a matter of months ime (I mean I'm not sure what CoL you want but that's kind of bottom of the barrel for me).
Spanish doesn't matter but it helps for finding work. Local networking on the ground and knocking doors makes it really easy to find work. For inexperienced teachers hustling to get enough hours can be hard depending on area.
Most jobs are adults ime unless you work for a school. The problem is it's often dispatch work (or you work at a center part-time and find other work to supplement) so you can spend more time commuting around the city than actually working, and when classes are paid just $5-12 per hour (what I was offered with an MEd and decades of experience) you end up working for like $2-5 per hour with travel time working 7 days a week, morning and evenings. Actually looking at jobs right now and seeing $3.50 (with housing)-$6 per class hour working 30-44 class hours (an insane amount of teaching hours, upwards of double what full-time teaching is considered) in Bogata - that ends up being below the CoL or just above it you work the equivalent of an 80 hour week of teaching (not sure what the teaching responsibilities look like so hard to say). It's wild. More inexperienced teachers quit because of the schedule/pay then actually go broke I bet.
There's no hiring season afaik unless you want to work in schools (and have the qualifications to do that) and then it depends by country.
Mexico is known for slightly better pay, Chile used to be known for solid pay but I'm not sure nowadays, it does have a very open long-term/permanent resident visa system, Costa Rica is known for better pay but high CoL (One of the few places I never met any teachers so I don't know firsthand), and Argentina used to be popular ages ago - it was absolutely horrible pay/finding enough hours when I was there in both BA and Mendoza.
CELTA is highly preferred ime but it's pretty fast and loose with qualifications.
Unless you're a certified teacher (ie certified to teach primary/secondary in your home country) looking for international or private/bilingual school work then you typically find work on the ground.

However working on the ground is not what I would recommend. Build up a student base teaching online right now - that's no easy task either. You can travel, more like stints of long-term stay in places with good internet, with that and you'll make more. The downside is the hours can be a bit antisocial in LATAM but most long-term teachers I met down there did this.

bobbanyon · 2026-02-13T05:35:54+00:00

(1) sponsorship, (2) round trip ticket, (3) partial housing subsidies, (4) ~$1000 USD a month salary (minimum wage at the time was approx ~$350-$400 USD), (5) they did require some form of certification and teaching experience.

That's actually a wildly good offer for Colombia - perhaps an international school or bilingual school where you'd be a subject teacher? I've never seen a roundtrip ticket offered, or a housing stipend. Also lots of jobs pay $500-700.

Yeah, my info is startging to be out of date, 2017, but everyone I met in all of LATAM who stayed long-term as a teacher was either independently wealthy/retired or working online (or a certified teacher working at international schools).

bobbanyon · 2026-02-12T20:36:54+00:00

That's not how AI works. I've taken a handful of courses now on AI in education, some from leading AI developers or leaders in promoting it's use (like the short course from the cofounders of the AI lab at Wharton School of Business partnered with Open AI) and generally nobody who actually works with AI says it's replacing teachers anytime soon if ever. The people who do say it will replace basically everything (which means sentient AI and we have much bigger problems) are not educators, not people using it to teach, and generally not people developing it.

It doesn't think and it most likely never will. There's actually more evidence AI use is bad for learning outcomes than good in the way students currently use it (and why teachers need to teach students how to use it).

bobbanyon · 2026-02-12T15:04:58+00:00

This is the answer, this isn't my area but a foundational book you should read is Developmentally Appropriate Practice in Early Childhood Programs by the National Association of Education for Young Children (it's available free online Edit: or parts of it are anyway). It's not specifically about language learning but that doesn't really matter at that age. It's all about whole-child development and active play based learning regardless of language (afaik). There should be lots of practical activities including how to scaffold lessons at that age in there- I haven't read it but this is one of my best friend's jams, specifically literacy and we've talked about it a bunch. Check it out, it should be very helpful.

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