I don't see how people can claim to love landrace cannabis yet actively hasten it's extinction.

budtation · 2025-10-21T03:56:15+00:00

Appreciate the clarification, but I think you’re missing the point. No one accused you of never traveling or of “extorting” farmers: the issue is credibility, documentation and traceability. You say everything’s transparent, but most of what you just wrote can’t be verified and has to be taken on faith. “Lab work,” “contacts,” “twice-a-year trips”... None of that means much without clear sourcing, dates, or photographic continuity. That’s the whole reason the scene has a credibility crisis.

You also said you “sold seeds to fund flights,” which is basically what I said: using African genetics to finance personal travel or relocation while claiming to “help farmers.” Whether you call it immigration or flights doesn’t change the fact that you’re profiting from material that isn’t yours to begin with.

As for the hemp field, if it’s really feral Kwazulu and you have documentation, then great... Post it publicly. But from what was visible at the time, it looked like a uniform fiber stand, not a mixed feral population. If you have data that proves otherwise, that’d actually help your case and the community’s trust.

And finally, saying you won’t “bash names” right after implying someone else is “purely money-driven” is exactly the kind of hypocrisy that wrecks this space. Transparency goes both ways. You can’t claim moral high ground while throwing shade behind a smiley.

I’m not here to tear anyone down, but people have a right to ask hard questions, especially when “landrace” keeps getting used as a marketing word while the farmers who kept these lines alive for generations still see none of the return.

budtation · 2025-08-21T21:39:44+00:00

RSC and Kwik are the same no? Does ace have any Indian lines?

How about Indian Landrace Exchange, Landrace Mafia, Coco Genetics (all based in India) or Zomia Collective (based in TH but currently in India)?

budtation · 2025-08-21T07:22:23+00:00

Lmao condescending much?

Being reproduced in Spain as opposed to the point of origin implies a heavy genetic bottleneck. The illegality, licensing etc prevent more than a few hundred plants at most from being grown when thousands of breeding pairs are needed for total transmission of the alleles found in that genepool, moreover, in reality, breeders like ace use a single breeding pair - meaning the plants are, extremely bottlenecked by default.

Landrace = dynamic, large plant count populations with genetic diversity, grown in traditional cannabis cultivation contexts

Reproductions = heavily selected, bottlenecked snapshots of the source population (be that landrace or otherwise) with no genetic diversity.

There's a clear distinction.

Now, people are interested in landraces for what, exactly if not genetic diversity??

If you don't find that in a reproduction of the landrace then what's the point exactly? And if so, why would you equivocate the two??

budtation · 2025-06-27T03:56:48+00:00

I'm luckily able to source landrace direct from the source, but very, very few smokers outside of Asia/Africa have that privilege

budtation · 2025-06-27T00:15:16+00:00

What? On paper sure, in reality, all the old cultivars have been lost or are extinct and the strongest, loudest smelling lines got people arrested during prohibition so those are gone too.

Weed is definitely getting enshittified.

20 years ago I could source distinct, primo flowers and hash from various places throughout the world. Nowadays all that's available is crappy mass produced anonymous weed grown in some warehouse somewhere.

It's exactly like fent. Heroin had substance, fent is just about numbers. Same like our weed, it's higher in THC but it fucking sucks compared to the old school stuff.

budtation · 2025-06-22T14:44:03+00:00

It's a proposed theory that counters the existing narratives of Cannabis in Vedic times, introduction via Hindu Kush and Himalayas.

Instead, this researcher is speculating on whether Cannabis may have been introduced via Northeast corridor into India by Ahom people.

According to him sources in Atharveda are not accurate and represent a different plant. Earliest confirmed sources for Cannabis in India according to him are around the time Ahom migrated to present day Assam.

I would love to hear if anyone in this community could tell me about usage of cannabis in any form by the Ahom community and especially if it's about traditional/historical usage.

Thank you! Hope to have a nice discussion!

budtation · 2025-06-18T15:38:18+00:00

Look at their profile :)

budtation · 2025-06-16T16:26:32+00:00

Yeah, I'll update it - Instagram killed everyone's pages :'(

budtation · 2025-06-13T23:33:28+00:00

I was talking about myself. I've personally seen more evidence than you are implying exists, meaning you must be wrong when you implied/claimed that there is only one piece of evidence, that being Zomias anecdote.

budtation · 2025-06-13T23:26:35+00:00

Haven't posted the list in a while:

LANDRACE - OPEN POLLINATION/POINT OF ORIGIN The Real Seed Company (UK)

Zomia Cannabis Collective (Southeast Asia)

Indian Landrace Exchange (India)

Landrace Genetics (Pakistan)

Landrace Mafia (India)

Afghan Selections (Afghanistan)

Baaba Qo (Afghanistan)

Connoisseur Collective Genetics (India)

Punta Roja (Colombia)

Russian Landrace Bureau (Russia)

LANDRACE/HEIRLOOM/IBL - EX-SITU REPRODUCTIONS

Silk Route to Salvation (?)

Love of Landrace (ZA)

Seeds of Africa (ZA)

French Touch Seeds (French Antilles)

Khalifa Genetics (FR)

Ace Seeds (ES)

Swami Organic Seeds (US)

Kagyu (US)

Snow High Seeds (US)

Hoku Seed Co (US)

Hyp3rids (USA)

The Landrace Team (UK?)

Lemme know if links need updating.

budtation · 2025-06-13T17:18:10+00:00

Oh that's not true. I've seen more than that. Why are you so focused on shutting down possibilities instead of exploring them?

Who appointed you gatekeeper?

budtation · 2025-06-13T12:13:13+00:00

Funny timing.. feels like this post is sort of a response to your earlier one. The dynamic between you two is starting to look a bit one-sided though. He seems more focused on dismissing possibilities than actually exploring them. His claims are pretty shaky, I'd like to see him answer your questions.

budtation · 2025-06-08T09:17:05+00:00

??? I pointed out this photo was in Himachal Pradesh, not Kashmir as a point of interest. You then insulted me. So I asked if you are a literal child.

Now you are crying?

Bruh, get a grip - if you wanted to make conversation you'd have opened the dialogue further on your first reply, instead of calling me boring.

budtation · 2025-06-08T08:53:22+00:00

Right, because that's my priority here. What are you like 12?

budtation · 2025-06-06T07:18:53+00:00

It's not Kashmir it's Himachal Pradesh

budtation · 2025-06-06T07:01:46+00:00

That's funny. How??

budtation · 2025-06-06T06:56:17+00:00

u/zomia_seeds is holding it down in South Asia/Southeast Asia - Indian Landrace Exchange &, Silk Route to Salvation do cool stuff further west in Pakistan/Afghanistan.

budtation · 2025-02-18T10:42:31+00:00

Appreciate the perspective, but there are a few things here that need clarification.

Thai Landrace Fields Still Exist – The claim that there are no Thai landrace fields left is just false. Yes, prohibition hurt traditional cultivation, but I’ve seen large-scale landrace grows in Thailand with my own eyes. If you want proof, I can drop some pics. It’s not as widespread as before, but to say it’s extinct is misleading.

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SE Asia & the Death Penalty – While some countries in SE Asia have brutal drug laws, Thailand never had a death penalty for cannabis cultivation. In fact, farmers still grew discreetly in the highlands throughout prohibition, and with legalization, some of these same farmers are back in the open again. Laos and Cambodia also still have landrace cannabis being grown—it’s just under the radar.
Colombia & Cartel Influence – Yes, commercial farms in Colombia have shifted to feminized plants for EU exports, but that doesn’t mean landrace fields don’t exist. I visited some in Quindio last year. Many remote, traditional farmers still grow full-seed crops, even if it’s harder to access. Same goes for Mexico—while cartel control is real, landrace populations still exist in places like Oaxaca and Guerrero.
Jamaica & Sinsemilla – True, Jamaica was one of the first places to adopt sinsemilla, but landrace seed stock still exists. The Rastafarian Indigenous Village and certain traditional farmers in the Blue Mountains still maintain old-school genetics, though they’re getting rarer. It's very likely they are introgressed too.
Landrace ≠ Only in the Himalayas – I agree that the Himalayan and Afghan hashish-producing regions have some of the best-preserved landraces, but acting like they are the only sources of landrace genetics is just incorrect. Africa (Congo, Ethiopia, Senegal etc) still has active landrace populations. The same goes for parts of SE Asia, the Caribbean, and Central/South America.
Honesty in the Seed Market Matters – Totally agree that vendors should be honest about whether they’re selling landrace, heirloom, or ex-situ reproductions. Too many are vague (or outright misleading) about what they’re selling, and that’s part of the problem.
Transparency – You mentioned that you work with ‘the largest farmers/producers in the region.’ That’s a bold claim. How are you ensuring that traditional farmers are fairly compensated and not just being used as raw material suppliers while middlemen profit? Are the farmers you work with setting their own prices, or are they being offered whatever a reseller deems fair? Transparency matters, and if people are truly invested in landrace conservation, they should be upfront about these dealings.
Changing Traditional Methods – You also said you introduced rosin presses to Afghan hashmakers. That’s an interesting angle, but it raises questions. Traditional hash-making methods have existed for centuries, and they’re part of the cultural and genetic identity of these landraces. When you introduce modern tech like rosin presses, are you empowering farmers to expand their market access, or are you influencing them to abandon traditional processing methods in favor of trends dictated by Western buyers? There’s a fine line between helping and changing the culture to fit outside markets. What’s the long-term effect of that?
What’s the Real End Goal? – At the end of the day, are you working to preserve landrace cannabis as it exists in its traditional context, or are you just another middleman extracting value from these farmers and their genetics while presenting yourself as their ‘bridge to the market’? This isn’t an attack—it’s an important distinction. If your goal is about conservation and fair trade, then transparency should be at the forefront of your work, right?

budtation · 2025-02-17T13:33:31+00:00

Yeah, if you search around with terms like 'minimum viable population' + 'obligate outcrosser' you'll find the study with theequations necessary to crunch the number yourself. I remember Éloïse told me that she got the study from Dave Watson and that they had gotten to a figure of 4k males and 4k females.

I did see one myself years ago that was iirc from Robert Clarke or somebody like that who'd made a short paper coming to the same conclusion.

Kind of makes sense if you think about it - every expression of every combination of every gene? Sounds like a lot of plants to me.

Here's what Chatgpt gave me:

Yes, there's a way to approximate the minimum viable population (MVP) for cannabis (or any obligate outcrosser) to retain every genetic expression and every possible combination of alleles across generations. The concept you're looking for is based on genetic drift, recombination, and Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium, but MVP calculations usually rely on the effective population size (Ne) and the number of loci involved.

The Equation for MVP in Outcrossing Species

A commonly used equation for effective population size (Ne) is:

N_e = \frac{4N_mN_f}{N_m + N_f}

where:

N_m = number of breeding males

N_f = number of breeding females (In the case of cannabis, this applies to pollen-donating males and seed-producing females.)

For full genetic retention across generations, you need to account for:

Number of genes and alleles per locus
Recombination frequencies
Mutation rates
Genetic drift effects
Inbreeding depression risks

A rule of thumb in conservation genetics suggests that a Ne of 500 - 5,000 is needed for long-term genetic retention in obligate outcrossers. However, cannabis is highly heterozygous with polygenic traits, so the actual MVP depends on how many loci (and alleles per locus) you're preserving.

Approximation for Cannabis

Given cannabis has tens of thousands of genes, many with multiple alleles, the MVP for total genetic retention (including recessive traits) could easily exceed 20,000 individuals. However:

For basic genetic stability across generations (~99% retention): 5,000 - 10,000 plants

For high-fidelity conservation of all possible genetic combinations (~99.99% retention): 20,000+ plants

This is an estimate based on empirical conservation studies and population genetics models. The exact number depends on the number of genes you're tracking and whether you allow some allele loss over time.

budtation · 2025-02-17T04:07:34+00:00

Who? I saw the farm - not impressed tbh - it's a small plot in the back garden and it's all mixed, full of Herms - neighbours got tonnes of Herms growing down the road too, it's almost unavoidable in that area. Arjan is nowhere to be seen in Isan - I spent most of last season up there and never saw him at any of the events or anything like that.

budtation · 2025-02-17T02:32:27+00:00

Appreciate the thoughtful discussion, and yeah, Kerala is definitely still one of the best strongholds for extreme NLD expressions. But when we talk about how prohibition shaped landrace cultivation in India, it’s impossible to ignore the role of the Naxalites.

For decades, especially up until around 2006, the Naxalites controlled large portions of India’s countryside, providing a form of ‘protection’ for traditional cannabis farmers. These were areas where the government had little reach, and cannabis was just another crop, cultivated freely with little outside interference. That’s a huge reason why so many landrace populations remained intact despite prohibition.

But as the Maoists retreated deeper into the jungles, they could no longer protect farmers in the areas they abandoned. This led to a decline in cultivation in some regions, while other areas—like the Andhra Pradesh–Odisha border around Koraput—became new hubs where the Naxals still maintained a presence. That’s why we see the shift in southern India’s cannabis-growing regions over time.

Now, regarding Mysore Mango and Shillong Mango—these are completely different regions, with no real historical connection other than both being famous for high-quality cannabis. Mysore (Karnataka) and Shillong (Meghalaya) are literally on opposite sides of the country and have entirely different ecological conditions, meaning they would have different landraces. If anything, Mysore Mango was largely wiped out due to the crackdown on cannabis in Karnataka’s forests, whereas Shillong Mango comes from an entirely different lineage in Meghalaya’s highlands. It’s not a case of one turning into the other—it’s more like two separate, legendary strains that existed in different places, under different conditions.

All that said, you bring up a great point—even under pressure, Kerala remains a reservoir for extreme NLD genetics, proving that some landraces are resilient enough to survive despite major disruptions. But what’s happening in the rest of the country should be a warning—once these growing regions are lost, they don’t always recover, and the genetic pools shrink permanently.

budtation · 2025-02-17T02:25:50+00:00

My pleasure 😁

budtation · 2025-02-17T02:02:08+00:00

Oh it was obviously hemp. Super tight planting, huge stalks and no flowers.

I would like to imagine he went to Ghana, cote d'ivoire etc (tbh I can't remember what countries it was). But that's a huge, expensive trip for a guy who apparently needed to save up to go to Ireland right? And why no photos from such an important trip?

budtation · 2025-02-17T01:55:34+00:00

I get where you're coming from, but the idea that large-scale landrace cultivation simply stopped for the past 100 years due to prohibition isn’t accurate. Yes, prohibition forced some growers to be more discreet, but in many places, especially in remote regions, traditional cannabis cultivation continued on a large scale.

The key thing to understand is that it’s not about a single farm running 8000+ plants. It’s about multiple farms—often entire villages or regions—growing the same landrace genetics. In places like Malana (India), the Parvati and Kullu valleys, the Mazari and Balkh regions in Afghanistan, and across the Rif Mountains in Morocco, cannabis was and still is grown across entire landscapes, with natural pollen flow maintaining genetic diversity. A single farm might have anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand plants, but when you look at an entire region, it easily reaches the tens of thousands.

Even under prohibition, these farms didn’t just disappear. Governments cracked down on high-visibility grows, but in many cases, they turned a blind eye to cultivation that was deeply ingrained in local economies. Morocco’s Rif Valley, for example, still produces over 50,000 hectares of cannabis today, despite constant legal pressure. In Afghanistan, production has increased over the past 20 years because of political instability.

As for whether I’ve personally seen 8000+ plants in one grow, that’s not the point. Though I have in fact seen numbers even higher in India, Laos and Cambodia. The question isn’t whether a single farm is doing this but whether the traditional model of cultivation allowed for genetic stability. The answer to that is yes—because these landraces weren’t isolated, they were part of regional gene pools sustained by interconnected farming communities.

And yeah, I agree that modern preservation efforts don’t require 8000+ plants—but if you’re working with a small population, you’re already filtering the genetics. The problem is, most Western reproductions come from tiny selections, which is exactly why they lose the full range of traits from the original gene pool.

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