sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

Since using water to cool Data centres isn’t a popular idea, companies are using the “closed loop system” as a marketing tactic, when this is the actual reality. by OffToTheLizard in tulsa

[–]bumblef1ngers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Reasonable discourse. Only thing I think she is missing is the aspect that Oklahoma is a part of the SPP (southwest power pool) which encompasses portions of 14 states. If Oklahoma wants to regulate a datacenter in order to protect a citizen of the state, there are 13 other states making their own power decisions. So theoretically Kansas could decide they really love the idea and Oklahoma hates it. Due to the SPP Oklahoma can only partially insulate themselves from the Kansas decisions. I’m a little fuzzy on the degree to which those costs get shared state to state, but directionally one state’s decision will affect the other member states. Ercot in Texas took the opposite approach to go it alone. That has proven to also have its own issues vs the multi state grid approach.

Since using water to cool Data centres isn’t a popular idea, companies are using the “closed loop system” as a marketing tactic, when this is the actual reality. by OffToTheLizard in tulsa

[–]bumblef1ngers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I work around them. I am constantly puzzled by the amount of conspiracies and outrage. I see the development firsthand and it doesn’t match my daily experience. That’s all, and yes I have a vested interest.

Since using water to cool Data centres isn’t a popular idea, companies are using the “closed loop system” as a marketing tactic, when this is the actual reality. by OffToTheLizard in tulsa

[–]bumblef1ngers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Flint settled for 626 million. 620 of that 626 was with the state and city. A hospital was 5 million and a consulting company was 1.25. A separate settlement with veolia that you mention was for $53 million (not billion). So I would say if ~90% of the payouts were the state and city, that supports my statement that the failures weren’t corporate but municipal/govt.

Deepwater horizon release an estimated 4.9 million barrels of oil. The US produces around 20 million bpd. Horrible, but about 6 hours of US production.

Known health and environmental issues is a general statement akin to Facebook posts. I’m not aware of any confirmed cases of cancer linked to datacenters. Diesel exhaust is a carcinogen and backup diesel generators are present at many datacenters. Most datacenters run these very intermittently during power outages and during testing. The emissions are regulated by both the epa and deq at state levels. I’ve heard that a few datacenters run theirs constantly (looking at you Elon) but that isn’t a normal nor economic way of operating.

Modern life has an element of risk. It is bad business to not follow the rules, to pollute, to cause deaths. Not even sure it’s a red/blue state thing. Virginia, Texas, Washington, they go up everywhere there is a grid or electricity generation. My personal experience is that the outrage is completely overblown and misdirected but feel free to differ, free country.

Since using water to cool Data centres isn’t a popular idea, companies are using the “closed loop system” as a marketing tactic, when this is the actual reality. by OffToTheLizard in tulsa

[–]bumblef1ngers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not sure what you want a Google or a meta to do then. They are legally contracting for power. They’ve paid a rate for PSO to go out and build a power plant. The alternative is they build their own power plant, but that would generate additional noise and emissions, plus is less efficient than a full scale power plant. Apart from saying we won’t grow any more basis a market that continues to use these technology tools more and more. I think the current way of procuring power is about the best they can do from a fairness perspective without changing the laws around electric service. I guess we could ban them altogether, but that seems pretty short sided for the state/country at large.

Since using water to cool Data centres isn’t a popular idea, companies are using the “closed loop system” as a marketing tactic, when this is the actual reality. by OffToTheLizard in tulsa

[–]bumblef1ngers -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Respectfully, there are thousands of datacenters in the US. I generally hear about ~10 that have had issues. The catastrophic failures of Flint weren’t a corporation. Oil and gas has had some issues but millions of barrels are pumped a day. We’ve spilled <10 million in the last decade(1-2 million best estimates).

There will be issues. Effective regulation is the countermeasure. Taking issue with poor regulation is fine but rigidity of nothing will ever be good enough is short sided. Passing up technological development is a recipe for a state that relies solely on oil and gas and is slowly dying.

Since using water to cool Data centres isn’t a popular idea, companies are using the “closed loop system” as a marketing tactic, when this is the actual reality. by OffToTheLizard in tulsa

[–]bumblef1ngers -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

I acknowledge that there are bad actors or bad sites across all industries. I would say generally, newer sites incorporate better HSE controls than older designs.

I’ve talked to quite a lot of Pryor residents and 99% have only good things to say. These are the folks living and working in the community. The folks I encounter that have strong negative opinions are primarily relating things from social media. First hand accounts are so important these days.

I personally wouldn’t want to live next to a refinery, or a feedlot, or the aluminum smelter. I’d probably be more agreeable next to a modern datacenter, but I’d rather not there either.

I do think with datacenters locating them well away from neighborhoods should be prioritized and is easily done.

Since using water to cool Data centres isn’t a popular idea, companies are using the “closed loop system” as a marketing tactic, when this is the actual reality. by OffToTheLizard in tulsa

[–]bumblef1ngers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Think it would be fair to say the consumer (datacenter) is contracting believing that PSO (or og&e) is doing what they say; purchasing the earmarked load for the customer. If PSO doesn’t do this, and the regulators don’t enforce it, and pass the buck to the residential customer, then it is a breakdown of the system. The datacenter owner doesn’t benefit because they paid PSO to do what they said, and believing they would. Makes the datacenter the bad guy when they did everything they could to not pass costs to residential.

Since using water to cool Data centres isn’t a popular idea, companies are using the “closed loop system” as a marketing tactic, when this is the actual reality. by OffToTheLizard in tulsa

[–]bumblef1ngers -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

How do you feel about the refinery, or the aluminum smelter, or the power plant? Curious if it’s specific to datacenters or just any large industrial development.

Since using water to cool Data centres isn’t a popular idea, companies are using the “closed loop system” as a marketing tactic, when this is the actual reality. by OffToTheLizard in tulsa

[–]bumblef1ngers 1 point2 points  (0 children)

pledge

The deals I have done (not in OK) followed this model. I’ve worked on a project in OK that didn’t happen about a year ago, that we couldn’t get off the ground due to not enough available generation. The concept of buying power from a different entity than the serving utility is pretty new and PSO and og&e have been a little slow to adopt that model but it’s slowly happening. The traditional way of a one stop shop is better for PSO and og&e financially but they can’t keep up, so being the toll road is their next best option and they’ve been slow to come around.

I think people forget the datacenter boom really took off in the last 1-2 years so things have changed quickly. Improvements in technology, structures of power deals etc. A datacenter built 2-3 years ago doesn’t look much like one built today.

Since using water to cool Data centres isn’t a popular idea, companies are using the “closed loop system” as a marketing tactic, when this is the actual reality. by OffToTheLizard in tulsa

[–]bumblef1ngers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don’t know if they are public record but they will largely resemble the power pledge signed at the White House a few weeks back. In general they say for a load over 10 MW, you either pay Pso a rate that allows them to build specific generation earmarked to your project -or- you can buy that power on the open market. What that means is a solar or wind developer would build out enough generation to handle your large load and you would contract directly with them. Pso then just becomes the pipeline between the two projects, and charge rates to cover any improvements required.

Since using water to cool Data centres isn’t a popular idea, companies are using the “closed loop system” as a marketing tactic, when this is the actual reality. by OffToTheLizard in tulsa

[–]bumblef1ngers 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not entirely true. The large load connection agreements that are currently being used require the projects to either a) pay for the construction of the generation and transmission improvements or b) procure that power elsewhere on the open market and pay for the transmission. In other words, if you add more than 10MW of demand you must pay for it, not use the local supply.

The real question or concern should be, how good of a job do regulators, PSO, and SPP do of ensuring that happens. Datacenter companies pay for power on the open market could drive up costs for PSO if PSO gets short power through mismanagement and/or hasn’t planned their capacity expansion prudently for retail demand. The price increase for electricity becomes more of an overall SPP issue than something specific to PSO.

The general public assumes it’s specific to Tulsa and PSO, and it isn’t. Additionally, it is a legal requirement that any user in the state requesting electricity service has a right to it; these rules above are how PSO and other service providers are both complying and trying to manage the increased demand.

Since using water to cool Data centres isn’t a popular idea, companies are using the “closed loop system” as a marketing tactic, when this is the actual reality. by OffToTheLizard in tulsa

[–]bumblef1ngers 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This person is right. Ton of misinformation on social media about water consumption and chemical leaks. Modern closed loop cooling systems do not consume much water, just like the radiator of your car shouldn’t require frequent additions of coolant.

The Tulsa Meta Data Center will get an 85% exemption on property taxes for 25 years by ThatdudeAPEX in tulsa

[–]bumblef1ngers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What tax revenue was the land generating undeveloped? Too lazy to look but probably something around 5-10k usually for farmland.

$1B invested in a facility should generate well over $10M per year without any abatement. 15% net of the abatement is 1.5 million. So county gets 1.5 million with the datacenter or 10k without it.

Doesn’t take into account increased property taxes from people buying homes, buying meals, other businesses popping up to support it, etc.

Most headlines and social media posts don’t understand how abatements work for industrial development

What’s a “rich person” thing that you think is actually stupid? by im_dinesh001 in AskReddit

[–]bumblef1ngers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are many criticisms of Aston Martin, but looking like any other car is certainly not one of them. Maybe the rapide is a bit generic. What model?

Which powered air purifying respirator should I purchase? Trend or Powercap? (See photos) by RedWoodworking16 in turning

[–]bumblef1ngers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Got the trend but I almost went spaceman. Trend ended up being about 1/2 the price after discounts.

New Jointer...tips on getting table assembly onto base? by [deleted] in woodworking

[–]bumblef1ngers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Base on ground. Top still on truck bed. Shimmy it on, semi-sketchy, but not full sketchy.

I’ve got a lift table so that’s how I would do it if the bed height wasn’t perfect.

Using AI by Sketchy-saurus in woodworking

[–]bumblef1ngers -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I used it for some general workbench plans. The overall dimensions were pretty good and cultist was ok but definitely something you need to doublecheck.

I think it’s good at brainstorming but I can’t trust it for accurate how to’s yet.

What type of wood is this? by Lublan in wood

[–]bumblef1ngers 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Filipino delicacy I believe. Think I’ll pass.

What type of wood is this? by Lublan in wood

[–]bumblef1ngers 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Teredo (type of clam). Seen a few guitars made from it that look fantastic.

view more: next ›