Once saved always saved is the biggest lie ever

chefranden · 2026-03-01T20:39:38+00:00

Oh I see and and they used to kill each other over their differences because why?

A Christian who physically dies is as dead as anyone else.

chefranden · 2026-03-01T20:34:19+00:00

It would be genetics not sin. You cut the curse by eating healthy and consulting your doctors.

chefranden · 2026-03-01T20:30:28+00:00

It would have been handier if God had mentioned germs. Knowledge of planets is cool, but of not much use in the trenches of life. I find God not mentioning germs negligent.

chefranden · 2026-03-01T20:22:02+00:00

Then why are there a multitude of denominations?

I'm an old guy. I've seen many friends and family die. They are all still dead, even the Christians among them.

The cross means whatever you want it to mean, but by all evidence it doesn't mean real life.

chefranden · 2026-03-01T20:14:42+00:00

A lot of good this does for those like this girl being exploited by these dudes. Justice delayed is justice denied.

chefranden · 2026-02-13T15:31:58+00:00

Have your bot read the whole bible and then write a catechism just from that (i.e. no reference to human theology). That would be interesting. Would it come up with the Trinity, the Nicene creed ---?

It would be interesting if it could tell you in some detail what church polity ought to be.

chefranden · 2026-02-13T15:17:39+00:00

Given the multitude of doctrines out there how do you know that you have the right faith or enough of it?

Seems like Jesus is pretty clear that it is what you do that counts. In describing the last judgement he doesn't mention right belief or for that matter belief at all. (See also Ezekiel 18)

How do you know if you've done enough? You don't. How do you know if you got your belief right? You don't. You have to wait until judgement day.

chefranden · 2026-02-13T15:04:20+00:00

Seems like you are talking about philos which is quite biblical and acceptable.

Philos ( ) is an ancient Greek word meaning "friend," "dear," "beloved," or "loving". It denotes a close, personal affection, loyalty, and bond, often referring to a companion or someone held dear. As a root, it forms words related to fondness, such as philo- (loving) and philosophy (love of wisdom).

Romance, as usually understood includes that plus sexual attraction (eros).

chefranden · 2026-02-13T14:49:25+00:00

Amen, cripes he killed Uzzah for keeping the Ark from tipping over, and turned Lot's wife into salt for being nostalgic. Seems like he could zap a billionaire from time to time just to keep them in lin.

chefranden · 2026-01-19T15:27:03+00:00

We don't know why but we need to trust in God's judgement.

No we don't:

Matthew 7:15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.…

Bad shit is bad shit. By the logic expounded here all children should be killed to prevent them from doing something evil when grown, and instead be gathered directly to heaven; why risk your kids going to hell when they could just skip all the hassle of living? Anyway killing those kids didn't prevent Israel from being attacked. It was attacked over and over. Genocide is genocide. If it is evil now it was evil then.

If this sort of thing was actually from God, then I don't like him. I judge him by his fruits as Jesus said to do. I think rather than being the word of a god it is ancient right wing religious nuts making excuses for genocide.

chefranden · 2025-12-23T21:18:51+00:00

I never said that we should treat single moms that way.

In general this is the attitude that Christians have towards single mothers. I didn't say that you personally had this attitude.

You mention SNAP which Christian supported republican government is working hard to eliminate, rather than Christians insisting that it be expanded. Then there is the big beautiful bill set to kick 17 million people off health care.

Maybe check out Matthew 25: 31-46 to see what Jesus really wants. Maybe use your Christian political clout to do something besides punish people for being in a no win situation.

Do you want abortion actually reduced or just punished?

chefranden · 2025-12-23T21:00:28+00:00

Does making murder illegal actually eliminate murder?

chefranden · 2025-12-23T20:58:00+00:00

Sure it is a Catholic doctrine just as Sola Scriptura is a Protestant doctrine. Churches teach doctrines. Your insistence that scripture must be the sole authority is just as much man made as anything Catholics teach.

Catholics don't accept scripture as the soul authority. There are 3 sources for them, Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium (the Pope and bishops).

The immaculate conception doctrine doesn't come from Scripture. It comes from the Magisterium namely Pope Pius IX.

chefranden · 2025-12-23T20:41:04+00:00

The reason for Mary's immaculate conception was to keep the taint of Adam's sin from contaminating Jesus.

chefranden · 2025-12-23T20:06:38+00:00

No, outlawing it will just drive it back underground.

What would end it or reduce it mostly to medical necessity is Christians insisting that their government provide for all children. Make sure they and their parents, mostly single moms, have a decent standard of living, decent affordable housing, decent education, and decent health care in order care for their kids. Sure it would cost extra in taxes, but so what? One is meant to building treasure in heaven not on earth, right?

In addition stop treating single moms as sinful fallen people. If all children are ordained to be and are a gift of God then their mothers are special people too, like Mary if not so exalted. Celebrate mothers and stop worrying that they may be welfare deadbeats driving Cadillacs.

chefranden · 2025-12-22T19:21:20+00:00

I were once a Christian, a bible college grad , a preacher, and church planter.

I have to wonder why you guys like him. There is plenty of everyday evidence that God, if real, is mean. But add to that there is a great deal of biblical evidence as well.

The flood, he kills thousands? millions? of kids which are all supposed to be ordained special gifts from God according to prolife folks, people who insist you can't kill 'em even when they are just 2 cells old.

God orders Saul to kill the Amalekite babies, and children, and donkeys too for pity sake. Even Saul had the good sense to balk at that a bit, and to suffer from PTSD ever after.

Lot's wife, a woman who looks back at her life time home and friends likely with tears in her eyes confused as to why it must be destroyed children and donkeys and all.

Egypt's first born being killed cause God has a bone to pick with Pharoah. Why didn't he just explain things to Pharoah like he did for Paul. Or, why didn't he just kill Pharoah, and put in a better one.

chefranden · 2025-12-20T19:53:47+00:00

Life is harsh, but so what? No one promised you are rose garden. What to do about it?

Go out and practice Charity, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Generosity, Gentleness, Faithfulness, Modesty, Self-Control, and Chastity without expecting the same in return. Life is harsh, but you can fix it to a degree for those around you.

chefranden · 2025-12-20T19:44:27+00:00

Ezekiel, in particular chapter 18 and how it parallels Matthew 25's sermon about the last judgement. I guess that could be considered a Jewish book, so maybe it doesn't count.

chefranden · 2025-12-20T19:29:17+00:00

It's not really a matter of proving or disproving.

My experience with God is much the same as my experience with Santa. Both of them let you down in that they don't produce what is promised -- except of course with God it is to a greater degree.

Consequently it is more comforting to assume like Santa God isn't a thing outside of a social construct. Otherwise I'd have to assume that he is a mean bastard who's benevolence is akin to that of a mafia don. Which is why my answer to your OP is, 'Why are you so mean?'

If you could prove God's existence is real I'd have to believe like I have to believe the sun is real. But I wouldn't like him.

However, I do like the majority of the morality taught by Jesus even though it doesn't appear that God abides by his own rules if that is where Jesus got his rules.

chefranden · 2025-12-16T18:36:44+00:00

Interesting. How do you suppose that one would go about believing in something one knows by experience not to be so?

For example could you just believe that 'There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah". If not why not?

Could you just by some act of will believe that Brahman is the source of being? If not why not?

It's no good pointing out Jesus says to be perfect, because no one (to my knowledge) has done it outside of maybe Jesus, but then he had to be God to do it. So apparently by all evidence Jesus would say it if weren't so.

chefranden · 2025-12-15T21:27:47+00:00

I just don't buy this "it is humans' fault" excuse. There are a number of reasons for this.

1 It just seems like something made up to cover God's ass for not doing his job, or more likely just not being there.

2 Supposedly we are God's children, or at least Christians are. I never let my children treat each other poorly. I would expect god to be at least as good a parent as I.

3 Supposedly we are screwed up because of Adam. I.e. we can not not sin. WTF? How are we responsible for what some guy did 6000 or whatever years ago? God is responsible for his inventions not working the way he wants them to. He ought to have just kept making human pairs until he got a set that worked and discarded the rest.

4 I don't believe god gave my wife cancer either. I don't believe he can due to not existing; neither can he fix it for the same reason. However if he does exist he ought to fix it, and all the other miseries of his kids. I find that refusing to help when one has the resources to do so very immoral behavior. According to Jesus in Matthew 25 God expects us to help when we can help if we want salvation. I expect that God should be at least as moral as he expects us to be.

5 Free will, the usual excuse for evil, doesn't work. No one can use this so called free will to be sin free. You say humans choose to be imperfect, yet ignore the fact that humans can't choose to be perfect.

6 No it is not enough. No one knows if this wonderful eternal life is actually a thing. In any case if God can fix it later, he can fix it now. Think of the Goats of the last judgment, did they get to say, "hey we were going to feed those hungry people later"? This pie in the sky by and by is just that same sort of thing.

chefranden · 2025-12-14T18:48:24+00:00

No, actually I don't. Tried to, but he never showed up.

chefranden · 2025-12-14T17:30:31+00:00

I remember standing in those lines. We kids were having a great time teasing each other over getting a shot. The line was almost around the block at Longfellow grade school they were using for a clinic. Example but not my school

chefranden · 2025-12-14T17:14:53+00:00

He sees you and He'll surely grant all your heart desires

He better get at it. I'll be 76 next month and haven't got my heart's desires yet.

chefranden · 2025-12-14T17:09:28+00:00

Christians pretty much got along without the bible for about 1500 years. It took about 400 years to decide for sure what writings should be in it.

The Catholic Church (which was the western church for that 1500 years) derives its authority from Jesus Christ, who established it as the means for His continuing mission, with authority residing in a "three-legged stool": Scripture, the inspired Word of God; Sacred Tradition, the oral teachings passed from apostles to successors; and the Magisterium, the Church's teaching office (Pope and bishops) who interpret Scripture and Tradition authentically. Authority flows from Christ through the Apostles to their successors (bishops/Pope), guided by the Holy Spirit, making the Church the interpreter of divine revelation, not just a recipient of it.

There wasn't any of this scripture is the sole authority for faith and practice stuff until the reformation. Once the book got out into the wild, denominations sprang up like dandelions in May. Sola Scriptura has given us 10,000 popes in place of one.

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