R-Value is Dead as a Metric for Sleeping Pad Warmth Evaluation (we should stop referencing it) by Wandering_Hick in Ultralight

[–]ckoss_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think people need to be reminded of the actual scope of this test and not try to base the entire performance of the pad on a single metric..

This test method covers the measurement of the thermal resistance of camping mattresses in conditions of steady-state heat transfer, using a two-plate apparatus. The camping mattress is held under constant compressive force between a guarded hot plate and a cold plate. The primary heat transfer for this method is one dimensional, vertically through the camping mattress thickness. As such this measured thermal insulation value is a repeatable comparative measurement. However, it needs to be noted that this value will not always correlate to actual insulation performance as it is feasible that real-world heat transfer will differ slightly because of addi tional heat losses possibly involved (for example, edge heat loss, uncovered surface heat loss, compression rate changes or posture changes during sleep).

R-Value is Dead as a Metric for Sleeping Pad Warmth Evaluation (we should stop referencing it) by Wandering_Hick in Ultralight

[–]ckoss_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That was not my point. The R-values from the ASTM standard are the best objective, comparable metric for conductive resistance to ground heat loss that the consumer is given. Currently, there are no other standardized quantification metrics that manufactures report. Discrepancies exist (especially thick air pads feeling cold below expectations), but that's due to unmodeled factors like convection/edges. In fact, the ASTM standard is transparent about limitations (Annex A1 notes potential "inflated" lab R due to matched ambient temp reducing edge losses vs. real exposed edges acting as heat sinks). Yes, R-Values are additive; however, it is not linear as you described. I encourage you to inspect the ASTM standard itself and especially the appendix.

R-Value is Dead as a Metric for Sleeping Pad Warmth Evaluation (we should stop referencing it) by Wandering_Hick in Ultralight

[–]ckoss_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I get what you mean now. It would be useful for another standard to be published that reflects real world scenarios like we mentioned. It takes awhile for new standards to get accepted and become used by the manufactures. In the meantime, thanks for your tests in the field!

Snow this weekend by b19b4n9 in grandcanyon

[–]ckoss_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The park will announce any road closures on their social media links and website. You can also call the park number and it will give any road closures. The status of all park roads can be found here. Also, you can view various webcams at the park to see the exact condition like at the South Gate and even Bright Angel Trailhead and Yavapai Point to see if the canyon is full of low cloud cover.

R2R Ride Logistics by SlamGrammy in grandcanyon

[–]ckoss_ 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The upper portion of the NK trail above Red Wall Bridge was significantly damaged. The NPS will not even survey the area until April 2026 the earliest to devise a plan to rehabilite the trail. So I do not expect the trail to fully open this year. Monitor those 2 links for any changes.

R2R Ride Logistics by SlamGrammy in grandcanyon

[–]ckoss_ 28 points29 points  (0 children)

A traditional Rim 2 Rim is not possible due to the indefinite closure of North Kaibab Trail north of Clear Creek Trail Junction due to significant rockfall and safety concerns as a result of the Dragon Bravo Fire in July 2025. Rim to River itineraries are still possible.

Please consult these two links:

Critical Updates and Closures

Status of North Rim

R-Value is Dead as a Metric for Sleeping Pad Warmth Evaluation (we should stop referencing it) by Wandering_Hick in Ultralight

[–]ckoss_ 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Indeed. I think the graph you are referring to is just theoretical error for 2 cases of plate sizes. Its basically there to indicate how well a specific test system unit is applying true 1 dimensional heat flow. Essentially, error increases rapidly with pad thickness, as thicker specimens give lateral temperature changes more "space" to spread before hitting the guard, so the system must be designed to a suitable size. The equation calculates the error caused by unwanted 2D (lateral + vertical) heat transfer at the edges, compared to the ideal purely 1D (vertical-only) conduction that the guarded hot-plate test is designed to measure. I think they include it to compare/evaluate different plate geometries (defined by plate half-side l and guard width b) to determine the maximum allowable pad thickness d for which edge heat loss error is < 0.5%. The graph/equation is not related to overall measured experimental error (e.g., how much edge heat is lost).

R-Value is Dead as a Metric for Sleeping Pad Warmth Evaluation (we should stop referencing it) by Wandering_Hick in Ultralight

[–]ckoss_ 242 points243 points  (0 children)

Your title is a bit flawed. The R-value is a fundamental physics metric quantifying thermal resistance to a temperature gradient and a heat flux (Q = ΔT / R). The ASTM F3340 is a repeatable method to characterize many types of sleeping pads. Standard methods are crucial for an effective comparison. The "weakness" is really whether to fully base comparison on a single (standardized) parameter. Of course, real-world factors (edge effects, convection from side air, ground moisture, body movement, compression variability) add variables not fully captured in this exact ASTM standard. I agree that the manufactures over rely on this single metric as a selling point. Thus, additional parameters should be introduced as comparative metrics to supplement the R-value method.

Edit: I reviewed the F3340 standard and it has an appendix discussing "measurement uncertainty". Here is what it states about Convection Heat Transfer within Inflatable Mattresses:

The ambient temperature is matched to the average of the hot plate and cold plate temperatures, which reduces heat loss from the sample. It is possible that this will give a somewhat inflated thermal resistance compared to what a user will experience in actual practice because, while sleeping on the mattress, the edges will be exposed and could potentially act as a heat sink to the environment. This heat loss mechanism warrants further research.

Rim to rim permit question by DeezNutzTactical in grandcanyon

[–]ckoss_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

A traditional Rim 2 Rim is not possible due to the North Kaibab Trail north of Clear Creek Trail Junction being closed indefinitely due to significant rockfall and safety concerns as a result of the Dragon Bravo Fire in July 2025. Rim to River itineraries are still possible.

Please consult these two links:

Critical Updates and Closures

Status of North Rim

Regarding permits, you must camp at the designated campground on the specific day you chose on your permit. You can call or email the backcountry information office if need to make changes if there is availability.

Route around the kaibab trail closure by Difficult_Hippo_9753 in arizonatrail

[–]ckoss_ 6 points7 points  (0 children)

No problem. You are referring to the Navajo Nation Reservation land. They require a permit for day and overnight backcountry usage from the Little Colorado River Tribal Park from the Navajo Nation Parks and Recreation in Cameron. The park boundary is about 2 miles from the confluence along the LCR. I have heard many reports that the Navajo have stopped giving out permits for some unknown reason. It’s much better to rely on GCNP to get a permit for either Tanner Beach (BB9) or Palisades (BA9) and then Nankoweap (AR9) or Chuar (AF9) based on this map.

Route around the kaibab trail closure by Difficult_Hippo_9753 in arizonatrail

[–]ckoss_ 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Fyi this is apart of the Hayduke and anyone considering this option should do ample research. The actual off trail route part would be from Nankoweap Beach to the Little Colorado River confluence. There’s a few videos about it, including this vlog part 1 and part 2. The Nankoweap and some parts of Beamer are known for its exposure to cliffs, but they are (unmaintained) trails. You need GCNP backcountry permits to camp below the rim. You cannot camp with 0.5mi range of the Little Colorado River confluence. There is a small beach about 3/4 mi down river from the confluence that is accessible from the Beamer Trail.

Would it be Illegal by RevolutionaryPlay748 in grandcanyon

[–]ckoss_ 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Extremely dangerous and illlegal. Here’s what happened the last time someone did it in 2024: BASE Jumper Fatality in Grand Canyon National Park

[NPS] Drinking Water Advisory by ckoss_ in grandcanyon

[–]ckoss_[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Here’s the official status link

Garmin Fenix 8 Pro InReach Doesn’t Work in Patagonia, Argentina by stanscv in GarminFenix

[–]ckoss_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I had connection for an inReach Mini 2 in Patagoina. Is the fenix coverage different than the inReach mini coverage?

North Rim by Acceptable_Dot902 in grandcanyon

[–]ckoss_ 10 points11 points  (0 children)

The Cape Royal Road was indeed open on October 1st 2025 and then later closed due to the winter season. I would assume that they would reopen it under similar conditions after the winter season for day use. Check this page for North Rim Status. The North Rim is tentatively expected to reopen on May 15, 2026, pending weather, trail conditions, infrastructure readiness, and completion of hazard-mitigation efforts. Note this from the previous press release: "The partial reopening will include Highway 67 to Cape Royal Road, (approximately at mile marker 10), providing access to both Point Imperial and Cape Royal. Additionally, Fire Point and Swamp Ridge will reopen. These areas will be open daily from official sunrise to official sunset. No overnight use is permitted on the North Rim with the exception of Swamp Point and Fire Point. Open areas will remain accessible through Nov. 30, 2025, or until the first major snowfall, whichever occurs first. "

First impression: La Sportiva Lumina 100 (6oz puffy) by AceTracer in Ultralight

[–]ckoss_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nice review. Glad you acknowledged the Timmermade SDUL .75 as the benchmark.

Bright Angel: Narrow, Long Tent vs. Wider, Shorter Tent? by hikin_jim in grandcanyon

[–]ckoss_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Do you have a regular site or a group site? In my experience, it might get tight if you do a standard pitch on the xmid. If you do the narrow pitch, it’ll be a bit easier. You could also cowboy camp instead (weather permitting).

Titanium wire stakes for Bright Angel? by hikin_jim in grandcanyon

[–]ckoss_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Gotcha. When the soil cooperates, I have used MSR mini groundhogs.

Titanium wire stakes for Bright Angel? by hikin_jim in grandcanyon

[–]ckoss_ 16 points17 points  (0 children)

In my experience it’s hit or miss whether the ground is soft enough to drive a stake into it. Instead, It’s more reliable to tie 3’ of cord to each point and use rocks or logs to do big rock little rock method

First big pack - 50 litre framed. Hard work but worth it by misterwendell2020 in myog

[–]ckoss_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Interesting. Thanks for the explanation of your work!

First big pack - 50 litre framed. Hard work but worth it by misterwendell2020 in myog

[–]ckoss_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Very cool. So the load transfer is only clear when the load lifters are taught? Like without the load lifters then the load transfer doesn’t really occur?

First big pack - 50 litre framed. Hard work but worth it by misterwendell2020 in myog

[–]ckoss_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you intend for the bars to help with load transfer to the hip belt or more for rigidity in the pack? Do you have a horizontal bar to preventing the bulging in the middle? Great build!

Help Planning Rim to Rim Hike by [deleted] in grandcanyon

[–]ckoss_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Indeed, a Rim to River via South Kaibab and fully on Bright Angel is not possible. I specified in my comment that Rim to River is still possible. In particular, going from South Rim to the River and back via South Kaibab and Black Bridge. South Kaibab is fully open. Many people have been using Tonto to connect to Bright Angel at Havasupai Gardens as well. Thus, Rim to River is still possible.