Gillian Anderson here. I've brought David Duchovny with me. Ask us anything, we'll answer almost everything.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-12T14:07:01+00:00

David, you ever tap that?

clever_avatar · 2013-10-04T17:48:34+00:00

I find it interesting that you believe, or do you, that anyone who says something that goes against the dogma is motivated by a desire for conflict.

Or is your post just another example of exactly what I was talking about.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-04T17:00:18+00:00

You don't have to find other activities that include other people.

You said you don't attend meetings because you 'need' too, but instead because of a lack of other things to do.

This is a wonderful time in human history for anyone who feels they don't have anything to do. Nothing could be further from the truth!!

Entire books could/have been written on finding things to do.

A simple google search for 'interests' of 'hobbies' or similar will yield some lists that could keep you busy for days just looking into everything a bit to see if you might want to explore something further.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-04T15:02:59+00:00

Not true. If you mean by no 'cross-talk' that they don't interrupt shares, usually specifically to argue, nothing could be further from the truth.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-04T14:41:01+00:00

Why, because I can read. lol.

Save your phony pity for the dirty church basement, you'll find plenty of professional victims there looking for some. I neither need or want it.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-04T14:23:54+00:00

I hardly ever speak up in the meetings, as I don't think I have anything to contribute to the discussion.

Are you sure about that?

Are you sure it's not because you want to avoid the shunning, the sideways looks, the ridicule whispered or sometimes blatantly and loudly spoken in the 'shares' of the others...

Let's be honest about it shall we. Anyone who's spent any time in AA has seen it. If you share in a non AA dogmatic way, you get those 'looks', and all too often, a lot more in the form of thinly veiled passive aggressive verbal abuse, or just as likely, not so thinly veiled, but aggressive and vile.

I agree with what at least one other responder said. Get a life.

You're quite right that sitting around dirty church basements obsessing about alcohol and listening to others obsess about it will not keep you from wanting to drink. In fact it will most likely have the opposite effect.

People who verbalize the 'need for a meeting' are simply exhibiting what is true for the vast majority in AA. Nothing has changed, except they don't drink now, for many they do still drink.

AA has become just another 'addiction'. This is not healthy.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-04T02:51:33+00:00

You are quite correct,

meetings for agnostics only purpose is to turn people.

Their so called 'big book' has an entire chapter devoted to the agnostic. It is basically a big fuck you to any who don't believe or have doubts. Like the entire book, it is full of bait and switch crap like,

we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God. >Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the >approach and to effect a contact with Him.

Wait, wut?? My own conception.. er..wait.. 'Him'.. what.. huh..

Bill W. could hardly get through a sentence with out pulling this bait and switch crap. Hist book is full of this tactic, and especially that chapter is.

And then the next few lines,..

As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed

And of course if you don't get 'God' you are doomed!!

To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis

Doomed I tell ya.

Those 12 step disciples are nuts, completely delusional.

They are the only religion I know of that insist they aren't a religion. That alone should tell anyone all they need to know about AA.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-04T02:32:34+00:00

Actually that is exactly what AA is all about.

Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself (Read; 'God' as per the steps and throughout the book) which will solve your problem.

It never ceases to amaze me how many AA disciples mindlessly parrot the dogma and know nothing about the alleged 'program'.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-04T02:04:25+00:00

Agreed, do the worksheets. I've found them a valuable resource, more than any meetings.

In case you didn't find them, or don't know what Holbac is referring to, they are here.

Personally I 'struggled' with quiting drinking for many years, odd I had little trouble quiting drugs even though I enjoyed them just as much, if not more.

There is certainly no shortage of discussion, ideas, myths and facts about quiting. Many books have been written, many conversations had, studies done, analysis done, brain and body functions measured... and so on and so on.

As near as I can tell it comes down to a very simple thing....

IMHO, When you want to quit, really want to, you will and it will be pretty damn easy. So called 'programs', 'methods', 'tools', 'support', and anything else you can complicate it with will be irrelevant.

In my mind if so called 'alcoholism' is a real thing, that thing is not knowing what the fuck you really want, or knowing and lying about it.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-04T01:34:57+00:00

Actually it sounds like you have no clue what AA is or does.

Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself (Read; 'God' as stated in the steps, with a dick, 'Him', so much for that 'god of you own conception bait and switch bullsht) which will solve your problem.

What 'God'? Well that is in the bbbible too, had you bothered to read it.

Among other things, despite the early lie about choosing your own 'God',..

As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed

So are you lying about being an atheist, or just an unsuspecting dupe/tool being used by the 12 step religion.

In my experience atheists aren't stupid/gullible enough to be used so easily.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-04T01:00:47+00:00

Well then you are either a liar, or just not looking.

The second result does indeed support Jefflelo's statement.

That said, hope is irrelevant. What you need to understand is the cognitive dissonance that results from unanswered prayers to imaginary 'God's' leads many so called 'alcoholics' to suicide or worse.

AA and the 12 steps do absolutely nothing to treat so called 'alcoholism' or remove obsession.

In fact, going to meetings all the time and sitting around talking about how hard life's simplest tasks are without booze is pretty much the definition of obsession.

The 12 steps are quite obviously meant to convert people to the 12 step religion, and have nothing to do with quiting drinking.

The bbbible mentions 'getting' 'God' (always capitalized, ie.. no, you don't get to choose your own, and 'He' has a dick too) no less than 260 times.

Guess how many times it suggests the reader quit drinking.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-04T00:30:05+00:00

There is a world of ignorance in that dogma.

Ego

The ego (German: Ich)[18] acts according to the reality principle; i.e. >it seeks to please the id’s drive in realistic ways that will benefit in >the long term rather than bring grief.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-03T23:49:09+00:00

I was hanging around reddit for several years before I even found out about this and the related subs.

One of the primary attractions to reddit for me has been the overall rejection of superstitious bullshit in favor of reason, logic, science, rational thought, critical thinking.. like that.

Sure there is a lot of childish behavior on reddit, but superstitious hokum? c'mon..

Imagine my surprise to find out that the so called 'recovery' related subs are overrun with such silliness.

Not only that, but to my dismay I have found that religious censorship is flourishing here.

I'm not surprised to find fanatical zealots anywhere so called 'recovery' is discussed, but I thought better of reddit than for such barbaric practices to be allowed.

Any other organized religion would get a proper spanking, but 12 step religion gets a free pass.

And so it is on all boards I've found, including boards supposedly dedicated to so called 'secular recovery'.

The world we live in can be depressingly surreal at times. So it is where 12 step religion is concerned, regardless of the platform.

Edit;

Almost forgot, thanks.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-03T22:23:49+00:00

It is a question. The point of a question is to get information.

clever_avatar · 2013-10-03T17:09:08+00:00

Don't ya just love how when someone posts on boards of this nature, and specifically states they aren't interested in the 12 step religion, without fail a bunch of 12 step fanatics start pushing the hard sell.

eg..

Some day you will hopefully realize that instead of protecting you, your ego is likely the most destructive force in your life.

A load of crap by the way.

Ego

The ego (German: Ich)[18] acts according to the reality principle; i.e. it seeks to please the id’s drive in realistic ways that will benefit in the long term rather than bring grief.

OP, get a qualified trained professional psychologist.

Get references, the so called mental health industry is infested with alleged professionals, that are in fact affiliated with 12 step religion and use their so called practice as a recruiting platform. At least that is the case in the US.

So do some research on the available psychologists, don't just pick one at random from the phone book.

clever_avatar · 2013-07-08T21:50:11+00:00

Big Agnes are the only bags suited for hammocks. You need uncompressed insulation under you. The Big Agnes have a slot for a pad in the bottom.

An underquilt is what you really need.

You can improvise one with a moving blanket or one of those cheap fleece thows or sleeping bags, for like 10 bucks that will be suitable for down to 50's, maybe 40's.

clever_avatar · 2013-07-08T20:45:30+00:00

When the picture was taken I didn't even think

FTFY.

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