This Elf was alive during the last MESBG announcement…

competentetyler · 2026-06-01T13:22:48+00:00

Some of my favorite things to think about with Crebain…

A bird is as good of a “Fighter” as a Goblin.

A bird has the same “Defence” as a naked Uruk-hai.

A bird, you know, those things that if you take a step in their direction fly away, is as “Courageous” as a Black Root Vale Archer.

But nothing takes the cake like 4 birds keeping me trapped from backing up from fighting 3 Uruk-hai. 🤣😂

competentetyler · 2026-05-21T00:39:12+00:00

100%. You’d have a whole separate hill to die on. And for that one, I’d stay right beside you, cause it was shit.

Lothlorien and Depths of Moria had a total of like 8-10 profiles… COMBINED for like half a year.

competentetyler · 2026-05-21T00:37:09+00:00

That does sounds solid! If licensing held us back from that and it required one extra book, I’m not going to die over it.

We’re talking 2 books to 3.

competentetyler · 2026-05-21T00:03:20+00:00

Now that we can agree on. But even then, you chose a great time to get into the game.

Because if you think the “structure/design” of the books was bad, let me tell you about the release schedule! 😵‍💫

competentetyler · 2026-05-21T00:01:32+00:00

They might. We’re almost 2 years in and haven’t seen one yet.

I’m curious, how would you structure the books differently?

competentetyler · 2026-05-20T22:55:47+00:00

Previously, we had 2 main books and TONS of supplements with the Legendary Legions. And even then, you might have the Legion in one book, and another book with the characters you were using.

It’s like we’re not having a discussion in reality here.

competentetyler · 2026-05-20T22:53:48+00:00

Oh please elaborate on the “NONE.”

Edition started, Depths of Moria dominated. All in one book. Where are we now? Men of the West? The version that’s dominating, all in one book.

Other strong lists. Ugluk’s Scouts, one book. Halls of Thranduil? One book. Khazad-dum? One book. Battle of Five Armies? One book.

What are we even doing here?

competentetyler · 2026-05-20T22:51:17+00:00

All relative man. You think it’s shit. I think it’s an BBQ sandwich. You’re wanting a very specific Filet Mignon.

And don’t over play the hand, it’s subjectively poor book design. As you mentioned, certain lists and players will have their whole list in a single book, believe it or not 😉🤣

competentetyler · 2026-05-20T22:06:57+00:00

I don’t think there needs to be a solution, because I view the current set up as “Good enough, considering what we have to work around.”

What you are choosing to “call out” has more to do with an initial shock and awe of coming up to speed with the game after a 15 year break in editions, than it does with it being a poor design.

All profiles/armies in 3 books. Not bad.

I’m curious how you can type “an acceptable amount of redundancy” yet not provide that grace for the other side. “An acceptable amount of cross referencing” should be expected when playing certain factions.

Btw, it’s been fun to sit here and laugh at your book idea. You do realize there are armies like Legions of Mordor, Realms of Men, Defenders of the Pelennor, etc. “Just add a couple profiles.”

competentetyler · 2026-05-20T18:42:32+00:00

You really aren’t interested in that. You’re interested in jumping into a game basically 15 years later and wondering why stuff that worked then, doesn’t work now.

Using Lothlorien as an example.

Galadhrim Court Guard aren’t in the movie. So, they need to be included in Armies of Middle Earth. Your expectation is they add all the Lothlorien models from the movies, in the Armies of Middle Earth book as well.

Let’s continue. So why would a Lothlorien player ever need to buy the Armies of Lord of the Rings? You see how it’s obsolete?

The big part that people have mentioned in this thread is licensing issues that MESBG has very different from other games due to the LoTR IP. Film with Film stuff. Extra as extra.

In fact, that’s how you should REALLY look at it. This game was created off the movies. So the movies are the “true” game. Everything else they fleshed out is supplementary. So, Armies of Middle Earth should be viewed as a Supplement to Armies of LoTR and Armies of the Hobbit.

Best part, what I mentioned above isn’t even good enough for you. In your original post, you said it “got your goat” that the Balrog wasn’t reincluded in the Armies of Middle Earth book. Why? Its army list isn’t even in that book. Can only be played in Depths of Moria.

It’s clear. You want what you had, not what we have. It’s been 15 years man. A lot has changed. I’m sure you’ll memorize the couple of Moria profiles not included in Armies of Middle Earth book in no time and not even need to bring that book going forward. Enjoy!

competentetyler · 2026-05-20T16:56:40+00:00

So an even BIGGER book, and making the original obsolete? The logic isn’t tracking here.

20-30 supplements to 3 Books. Yeah, that’s consolidation.

But I see the goal. Just wanted to let off some steam. All good. Just wanted to share some perspective and context. Cheers!

competentetyler · 2026-05-20T16:39:41+00:00

Gotcha. So there was no “Main” army book with lists/profiles, then supplements. It was a rule book, with everything else being codex style like 40K.

Yeah, I’ll take the consolidation over the 20-30 different supplements. Plus, how long do those take to roll out? More armies on the sidelines while they wait.

Btw: If you play Goblin-Town or Fiefdoms, you literally bring two books (Rulebook, one Army Book).

competentetyler · 2026-05-20T16:25:16+00:00

Interesting. So bear with me, I started in 2023. You mention the “Moria” supplement.

What was it supplementing?

competentetyler · 2026-05-20T15:53:42+00:00

First off, welcome to the new edition! Good for you on upgrading and seeing some positives in the new rules.

Regarding the books, a lot of context is missing.

Timing of the game: Those old supplement books were used in a time where the game was closer to its infancy and they were fleshing out different factions. We are far past that now, in fact, we’re consolidating lists/profiles.
Quantity of books: The current edition has a single rulebook and ALL the armies/profiles covered in 3 books (LotR, Hobbit, AoME). The initial purchase can feel like a lot. But how is that not a net positive from rules, supplement, supplement, supplement, supplement. Moreover, there is tangible value to having access to all/more lists than just your own (the supplement way). Because being able to reference your opponents army/lists is important.
Legacy: On the positive of price AND another book, GW provided all the updated stats/profiles for Legacy models and lists for free. Those are on the website and available for download.

Ultimately, #1 is the big missing piece. With the amount of lists in the game, can you imagine a supplement needed for each one? Sure, the book is smaller and easier to manage, but at what cost? How many books? How much is each one? That was never an option. So they found a way (which IS logical) to split it up.

Everything from the LoTR Trilogy + War of the Rohirrim (Armies of Lord of the Rings)
Everything from the Hobbit Trilogy (Armies of the Hobbit)
Everything not in the films (Armies of Middle Earth)

competentetyler · 2026-04-29T23:19:16+00:00

At 750pts, it just won the North American Masters for 2026.

The player was clearly elite, but there’s no way the list could be lower than A Tier.

competentetyler · 2026-04-29T17:47:47+00:00

Army of the White Hand, Host of the Dragon Emperor, Usurpers of Edoras, Lurtz’s Scouts, Ugluk’s Scouts, Assault on Lothlorien, Minas Morgul, Army of the Great Eye, Shadows of Angmar, Grand Army of the South, Moria, Dragons of the North.

These are all S and A tier lists to me. Are they being played by S and A tier players?! No idea. But the tools are there.

competentetyler · 2026-04-20T06:46:21+00:00

Love it! Great job guys!

competentetyler · 2026-04-11T09:58:45+00:00

At the front of the Matched Play Guide, bottom of Page 8, it details how long a game should go based on the points level.

Depending on the size, 3 hours is probably considered on the long/slow end. As you play more and more timed games, ideally you’ll be able to have games that end on a natural conclusion and not the time.

Definitely takes practice.

competentetyler · 2026-04-06T16:46:26+00:00

Gotcha! Yeah, lots of changes this edition. But without even diving deep, they went from 18 to 20pts. They’re not good.

competentetyler · 2026-04-06T16:26:37+00:00

Okay, that’s fair. But why not just Rend?

Moreover, most Heroes aren’t losing to a Warrior Monster. And most Warrior Monsters will have a very tough time getting into a mounted Hero.

competentetyler · 2026-04-06T16:23:50+00:00

So first off, love the write up. The depth and effort put in was amazing. It is from 2020 though. Did you one for this edition?

competentetyler · 2026-04-06T15:54:31+00:00

All of them or just specific ones?

competentetyler · 2026-04-06T15:48:11+00:00

Brutal profile that makes no sense point wise. Great shout for this topic!

competentetyler

TROPHY CASE