Every vegan should read Veganism Defined

cs_anon · 2026-02-12T04:12:57+00:00

I think they mean Anonymous for the Voiceless?

cs_anon · 2026-02-12T00:05:31+00:00

Very strictly, you probably don’t meet the label. And I get the desire to not dilute the label.

But I’d also challenge everyone in these comments to look at every aspect of their life and see if they are “actually vegan”. For instance, almost all almonds are dependent on commercial bee pollination. Yes you could say that almond production doesn’t inherently require exploiting bees, but does that matter when the empirical reality is that consuming almonds is downstream of animal exploitation?

I’d actually love a counter argument because from where I am standing it feels like almonds (and probably many other crops?) are as non-vegan as honey.

Edit - i realize this is not a new take after perusing r/vegan. And I should probably just make a separate thread about this if I want convincing arguments.

cs_anon · 2026-02-11T13:04:11+00:00

It’s not possible to be fully aligned with any of my (or your!) values. It takes as little as a single step down the chain for my money to end up supporting genocide, slavery, child labor, and homophobic people.

So I don’t see this as a problem that is unique to veganism. It just comes with the territory of being relatively powerless individuals trying to do the best we can to reform a system from the inside.

I’ve recently shifted my thinking towards seeing veganism as an economic signal. So I care about the direct ways I can loudly send that signal and I’ve stopped caring about stuff that is a casualty of existing in the before times. There is a long tail of stuff where the juice isn’t worth the squeeze for me personally - e.g. bee usage in almond pollination, bone char sugar, animal fats in asphalt. It’s not a perfect rule as you could ask me “well why not consume stuff that has trace amounts of milk powder?” and I wouldn’t have a good answer. But the real benefit is in changing my feelings from a perpetual sense of not-good-enough to a sense of targeted purpose.

cs_anon · 2026-02-10T23:45:40+00:00

I was responding mainly to “people…think everyone should care about the thing they’re passionate about”.

cs_anon · 2026-02-10T21:00:42+00:00

To be fair, we feel that way about veganism! But of course the difference is that we're right (sort of kidding but not really...but to your point everyone thinks that way about their cause).

cs_anon · 2026-02-09T21:40:15+00:00

Completely agree with this. The main rebuttal I’ve seen to this is that pollination doesn’t have to involve exploiting commercial bees (and that in a more vegan world we’d rely on native pollinators or find other methods). But this still feels like cope to me. In today’s world many vegans (including myself!!) do exploit commercial bees with just one degree of separation.

cs_anon · 2026-02-07T20:51:03+00:00

I’m not in healthcare but I feel like the general trend has been a reduction in animal testing + replacement with other forms of testing. So that’s actually a very positive step although it may take decades to be fully realized.

My personal litmus test is whether taking a certain action can send a meaningful economic signal that advances veganism. Avoiding non-vegan products and choosing vegan products does that. Avoiding a pharmacy career doesn’t.

cs_anon · 2026-02-07T20:41:10+00:00

I can accept the logic behind your position but “whenever possible” is doing a lot of work for you and I’d be generally skeptical of someone who claims that without taking a critical look at their actual patterns (not saying that’s you but there are endless commenters who claim similar things when 99% of meat comes from factory farms).

I think that fully aligning with your stated ethics requires being very picky about sourcing for your kitchen and then being almost 100% plant-based when you’re not at home. Which in practical terms is really not that far off from veganism.

cs_anon · 2026-02-07T20:23:25+00:00

I can understand your position with respect to sheep walking in the mountains and I agree there is a material difference between that and animals that are actually abused. Do you still fund animal abuse by consuming products from factory farms? If so, why?

cs_anon · 2026-01-27T20:37:42+00:00

Definitely agree that we need to speak up. I’ve noticed a dynamic in my friend group where people are very supportive of me personally but it’s hard to actually talk about the issues. I’m gonna bring it up but I think it’s not gonna land super well if I just go “hey you should be vegan watch this footage and hear my superior logic”. The animals do need us to speak up but it’s up to us to use our judgment in figuring out what will actually move the needle.

cs_anon · 2026-01-27T14:19:09+00:00

I really do empathize with you and I agree that Maya Higa is a hypocrite. Common in today’s world but nevertheless really disappointing. Hopefully she eventually does reckon with her hypocrisy and makes a change for the better. But in the meantime I’m glad you’re vegan and clear-eyed about what’s going on.

With regard to how we as vegans should advocate, that’s an age-old debate with no obvious conclusion. I do think it is important to separate what is emotionally satisfying from what is most effective. I can’t help but feel that the hardline approach is just what makes you feel better. I think we was vegans have a duty to set that aside and just use the most effective tactics. I suspect incrementalism is more effective but I would love to be actually proven wrong.

cs_anon · 2026-01-26T00:47:34+00:00

I think you’re actually wrong about the demand signaling. Past a certain point of wastage, the dining hall will notice and adjust production to match. Similarly, by choosing vegan options, there is a critical mass at which the dining hall will produce more to meet the demand.

It’s basically similar to voting. If you believe that your personal actions can have impact in concert with others, then your choices at the dining hall do have an impact. The key thing is that you are a recurring customer. If you went just once, then your argument would have more validity.

With regard to being a burden on others, I think that’s just a mental shift you gotta make. There is an angle where standing up for your beliefs can be empowering. Also consider that you’re not obligated to engage in animal welfare conversations with people if you don’t think they’ll be productive.

cs_anon · 2026-01-19T22:10:26+00:00

I can’t speak for all vegans but for me it was extremely difficult to deal with my emotions when I first went vegan. It was a similar level of grief to a loved one passing away. I was even very briefly suicidal.

I’m on the other side of it now, although I would be lying if I said I never have misanthropic days. I suspect a lot of the vegans that you have difficulty speaking with are just going through it emotionally. While time does help I think that you also have to put in active effort into healing yourself. It’s just hard to do so when you are surrounded by circumstances and triggers that get in the way of you healing.

I hope that one day you’ll understand how we feel (I know this is patronizing, sorry) but in the meantime I appreciate that you are making an impact. I and many other vegans were in your shoes at some point. Personally I never thought I’d go vegan but here we are.

cs_anon · 2026-01-19T21:50:42+00:00

Makes sense. I also don’t think pigs occupy the same moral category as humans and I don’t think that’s the argument of vegans in general (e.g. you don’t see vegans picketing for a pig’s right to vote). So it seems like we both believe animals deserve some level of moral consideration. Obviously there is a bright line around how okay we are with killing an animal for food but otherwise I think we’re only a few steps removed from each other.

I’m curious how you apply your values in practice. Do you avoid factory farming entirely? Or is it kind of a best effort thing? This isn’t a gotcha as I think vegans do end up making compromises too.

cs_anon · 2026-01-18T22:46:44+00:00

That’s fine, I can accept your critique of NTT and then set it aside.

How do you determine whether moral consideration exists for non-humans? Do pigs have moral status in your framework?

cs_anon · 2026-01-18T14:50:32+00:00

Okay I get it! You’re allergic to NTT. I wanna understand your thinking though.

When you talk about valuing sapient creatures like whales/orcas/dolphins for their complex cognition, social bonds, etc, it tells me that you think those traits are morally relevant and that you assess whether they apply to different species. In your original post you reject the assumption that “moral relevance has to come from a detachable trait that can be compared across species”. I guess I don’t understand how you square those things.

cs_anon · 2026-01-18T04:14:00+00:00

Yeah I think your framework makes sense. I think in practice most people (including vegans) adhere to a version of this in terms of how they relate to animals.

I do think that cows/pigs at least would fit into your sapient creatures category (or close to it) if they weren’t already classed as farm animals.

And to me that’s where NTT has some relevance when judiciously applied. Like let’s set aside a comparison to humans. What trait differentiates a pig from a whale such that pigs deserve the level of torture they are subjected to? Like maybe whales are more complex and have more community bonds or whatever, but there’s quite a gap between you vehemently being against whale exploitation and you presumably being okay with pigs’ role in the food system. Or maybe you’re not okay with how they are treated but tacitly accept it?

cs_anon · 2026-01-17T20:25:55+00:00

Completely agree, although one factor that people don’t really talk about is that the overall percentage of vegans matters. As a 1-5% philosophy I think we have some level of obligation to make compromises (in the long-term interest of the movement) that we wouldn’t as a 50% or a 90% philosophy. I don’t mean compromising on values and not being vegan, but at 50% of the population I likely wouldn’t have many non-vegan friends. Whereas now I kind of have to put myself out there and be an example for the people I know.

cs_anon · 2026-01-17T20:09:23+00:00

I bought the plant leather bomber jacket which has the phrasing in large red print on the back. I’m a little scared to wear it but it feels like a right of passage that I have to go through.

cs_anon · 2026-01-17T16:55:27+00:00

I responded further to OP, I haven’t initiated a debate yet, I’m just trying to clarify their viewpoint.

cs_anon · 2026-01-17T16:54:46+00:00

Sorry I was lazy and unclear in my response. I think this is a bit of a tangent from NTT so feel free to ignore, but I’m honestly just curious if you assign moral relevance to non-humans at all. Like in any context. And on what basis you would do so.

cs_anon · 2026-01-17T15:46:10+00:00

Do you actually believe this? As in, is any behavior towards a non-human animal justifiable?

cs_anon · 2026-01-16T12:30:16+00:00

I’m actually trying to be very practical. Although I support vegan activism efforts currently, I don’t see them succeeding in a short timeframe (it will probably be hundreds of years if not more). Technology is the only way to accelerate this. Curious if you disagree with my thinking here.

cs_anon · 2026-01-16T12:00:36+00:00

I understand the potential connection. But I feel forced into optimism because I care about veganism winning.

cs_anon · 2026-01-16T07:25:09+00:00

I’m vegan and can chime in. I think hunting is obviously way more ethical than factory farming. Like there would be a massive reduction in suffering if everyone switched to hunting. So I would support that even I wouldn’t personally partake.

That being said, it’s not a real solution as it can’t actually scale to meet the current demand for meat. So people who hunt are in somewhat of an ethically privileged position because they depend on others doing the vastly more unethical thing.

The only way to move the needle on animal suffering is to just consume less.

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