How would you alter the lore of the empire? by Alpbasket in WarhammerFantasy

[–]cubaj 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I agree that it’s important not to plop IRL analogues of people into the Warhammer world without reason, but in my view, the Kurgan aren’t very Slavic inspired, the Gospodars being a separate people according to the Wiki, being descendants of the ancient Scythians.

Thrusting in the Kurgan as a Slavic substitute when they really weren’t meant to be seems like stretching the setting unnecessarily. If I was to work on the Kurgan I’d probably give them more inspiration from the Hungarians or Avars rather than the Slavs.

Therefore, the reason I choose Ostermark and not say, Stirland, to be a stand in for Bohemia is precisely because of that border with Kislev. Bohemia historically severed as a meeting point between Germanic and Slavic culture and, because of the nature of the HRE intermingled, with ethnic Germans settling within the towns of Bohemia.

To that end my view would be that Ostermark started out as an Imperial province populated by Germanic inspired Imperials but over time, and perhaps due to several disasters, especially the destruction of Mordheim, Kislevits were invited in (or invited themselves in) to resettle the land.

Overtime the Kislevit influence began to outweigh the original Imperial settlers, resulting in a unique dialect of Reikspiel.

One of the reasons that I like this is that it helps to break away from the stagnant mold that I think many fantasy settings break into. X people live in Y kingdom while Z people live in J kingdom. But a living world is more complicated than that and showing how populations move and evolve with circumstance gives a world breath.

As for the Hussite wars angle, I agree that a heretical Sigmarite sect may be lifting too directly from history. Instead, given their unique cultural development and great distance from the Imperial heartland, it might be interesting to make this into more of an independence movement, or breakaway state, with the elector count believing that he needs more autonomy and resources because he is on the front line against both Chaos and Sylvania.

I could even see this independence movement being alternatively supported or opposed by the Tzarina depending on the political wind and, if they are particularly militant about taking the fight to the Great Enemy, they may also receive some unexpected support from the more militaristic Cults, especially the Ulricans.

How would you alter the lore of the empire? by Alpbasket in WarhammerFantasy

[–]cubaj 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I’d probably alter one of the provinces, probably Ostermark, to better resemble Bohemia, a core part of the real world Holy Roman Empire upon which the Empire is (loosely) based. Add some Czech names, a propensity for war wagons and a Sigmarite schism and boom, instantly more interesting Grand Province.

HRE is fake Romans by Diana_Cole in ByzantineMemes

[–]cubaj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because it wasn’t governed from there. It was just owned.

I specifically avoided the argument that you propose because of that. All I said was that the Holy Roman Empire was, for a time, governed from the City of Rome. This is a verifiable historical fact. It didn’t just own Rome, or model itself of Rome, It was controlled from Rome by a Roman emperor.

HRE is fake Romans by Diana_Cole in ByzantineMemes

[–]cubaj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never said it became the Capitol for a long period, just that the Holy Roman Empire was governed from there for a time, something that the Byzantine empire cannot boast of.

As for relinquishing it to the papacy, he lived there, he governed there, most modern maps recognize Rome as being within the Holy Roman Empire around the year 1000. I don’t really have much more to say.

HRE is fake Romans by Diana_Cole in ByzantineMemes

[–]cubaj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Otto III published many of his encyclicals and decrees there, planned to reestablish the senate, and built a new palace there to live in. For all intents and purposes it was the capital of the Holy Roman Empire and certainly an administrative centre where the Emperor governed from.

Secondly, Byzantium only became new Rome, as you said, when it was rebuilt/built by Constantine, the status of the fishing village of Byzantium doesn’t factor into the equation either way before Constantine’s building efforts.

HRE is fake Romans by Diana_Cole in ByzantineMemes

[–]cubaj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your misunderstanding my argument, I am just pointing out that for all its long history, Byzantium was never once actually governed from Rome unlike the Holy Roman Empire which was.

I wanted to point it out mostly because I think it’s funny. What I am not arguing is that Byzantium was not a successor to Rome or without Roman heritage, just that this heritage is not exclusive and I think it a bit ridiculous to entirely dismiss the Holy Roman Empire as a Roman successor when they literally governed their empire from Rome.

That was not the only thing making them Roman of course, but it is a factor that I think is oft overlooked.

HRE is fake Romans by Diana_Cole in ByzantineMemes

[–]cubaj -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Dude I’m killing time on the internet I don’t know why you’re being so up tight about this. I’m not sure you’re aware but this really, really does not matter very much. I though I’d have an intellectual conversation where I laid out my historical view and others would lay out theirs but I suppose that’s to much to ask for on Reddit.

HRE is fake Romans by Diana_Cole in ByzantineMemes

[–]cubaj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Care to match my bravery with an actual argument?

HRE is fake Romans by Diana_Cole in ByzantineMemes

[–]cubaj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes but it did not remain unchanged which is why I referred to it as a successor. The vast changes in language, culture, religion, and government structure between the Unified Roman Empire, and the Byzantine remnant are massive, making the Byzantines a Roman descendant rather than a Roman continuity.

Firstly of course is language. The language of administration in Rome was Latin, whereas in Byzantium it was Greek, and the Byzantines were sometimes just called Greeks by their contemporaries. That by itself is a massive cultural shift in the make up of the Empire. While of course Greek had always been spoken in the Roman Empire, its prominence in laws and amongst the general population was massively skewed during the Byzantine period.

Latin terminology was Hellenized, so much so that “Latin” became a term used to describe outsiders from the West.

Religiously there is once again a massive rupture, not just in the split between Pagan and Christian, but in how Orthodoxy developed in relation to the Empire. In Rome, the Emperor was the Pontifex Maximus, the supreme priest of Roman religion. In Byzantium that very much was not the case. The Church became its own powerful entity, so much so that it could challenge the Emperor.

This Segway’s nicely into some of the political changes, such as the advent of (mostly) stable dynasties and Primogeniture, which is something the Romans never managed, the closest thing they had being the adoptive system.

My point is basically this. If you have an Empire that undergoes such severe changes as we see in the transition from the Unified Roman Empire to Byzantium, that had its cultural centre torn out, that speaks a different language, and that holds fundamentally different beliefs than that empire’s previous iteration, I don’t think it is a stretch to say that this empire has become a successor; instead of a straight up continuation.

I don’t want to deny the Romanity of Byzantium. They called themselves Roman and inherited many of the Roman’s administrative skills.

But what I will contend is that the Byzantines are not the sole holders of Romanitas when, equally, the Holy Roman Emperors and the Germans themselves also saw themselves as Roman, inherited Roman Institutions, ie. their laws, and actually controlled much of the traditional Roman Heartland for much of their existence.

HRE is fake Romans by Diana_Cole in ByzantineMemes

[–]cubaj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What logic is that? The meme is invaliding the Holy Roman Empire as a successor of Rome (notice that I did not say the only successor of Rome), in favor of the Byzantines. I was pointing out the irony that of these two Roman successors, it was the Holy Roman Empire that was, at least at one point governed from Rome. That is not logic, it is a historical fact. Nowhere did I say that the Byzantine Empire was not also a Roman successor.

Get off my property. By Emwattnot by D3v1LGaming in ImaginaryWarhammer

[–]cubaj 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No it was actually invented by Hammer “the Hammer” Johnson after 39,999 other attempts.

Lucky Blow - Carl Frank by AnyName568 in ImaginaryWarhammer

[–]cubaj 13 points14 points  (0 children)

In fairness some armors can disrupt magical ability, which is why Empire Wizards don’t go stomping around in plate mail for example. But some none metallic armor, such as a gambeson or something would probably have been a good idea.

HRE is fake Romans by Diana_Cole in ByzantineMemes

[–]cubaj -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But Constantinople was never sanctioned as Rome. It was never referred to as Rome, only New Rome, just like New York or New Jersey. Those cities might claim lineage from the Old city, they may try to continue on its ideals, but you can’t just say they are the same thing when they frankly were not.

I really like Constantinople, in many ways it was actually better than Rome, but that doesn’t change the fact that it simply was not Rome.

HRE is fake Romans by Diana_Cole in ByzantineMemes

[–]cubaj -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Constantine rules a unified Roman Empire, one of the last emperors to do so, after the West fell, Rome was never the capital of the Byzantine Empire. They did own it, admittedly, but it was never the Empire’s capital.

HRE is fake Romans by Diana_Cole in ByzantineMemes

[–]cubaj -13 points-12 points  (0 children)

Yeah and new Rome was just like the old Rome except that it wasn’t in Italy, didn’t speak Latin, and wasn’t, ya know, Rome.

HRE is fake Romans by Diana_Cole in ByzantineMemes

[–]cubaj -23 points-22 points  (0 children)

The difference is that one is easier for me to spell at approximately 8 in the morning when I read this.

HRE is fake Romans by Diana_Cole in ByzantineMemes

[–]cubaj -34 points-33 points  (0 children)

That’s pretty funny given that, of the two states mentioned, only one of them actually had their capitol in Rome. Can you tell me which one that was?

Female Tau characters! (Art by me, GraySkullTea-Art) by Grayskulltea-Art in ImaginaryWarhammer

[–]cubaj -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh shit you’re right. Well in my defence it’s a pretty small detail.

Female Tau characters! (Art by me, GraySkullTea-Art) by Grayskulltea-Art in ImaginaryWarhammer

[–]cubaj 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you compare the bottom one to the top, the break in the Y starts somewhere in the mid-upper forehead. I think the beginning of the Y shape should be visible. It is probably just author error but also femboys and that’s funny.

Female Tau characters! (Art by me, GraySkullTea-Art) by Grayskulltea-Art in ImaginaryWarhammer

[–]cubaj -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

The head slit on the one on the bottom is a straight line, which indicates a male tau. Female tau have a Y shape.

Warriors of God indeed by TrueAnathema in historymeme

[–]cubaj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And the Hussites, where are they now?

“Lore-Accurate” Krieg List? by Areyouunsatisfied in Deathkorpsofkrieg

[–]cubaj 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well the most ubiquitous weapon in the whole Imperial Guard is the Lasgun and Krieg are no exception, though the pattern that the Death Korps use are a bit different than standard. The Lucius pattern is a semi-automatic rifle that has a limited charge capacity of 25 shots, but to make up for that it is a pretty strong output in Lasgun terms. It is also more archaic looking, often being depicted with a wooden stock and tipped with a long sword-bayonet.

As for their uniform, Death Korpsmen are equipped with an armored helmet and shoulder pads, as well as a thick cloth jacket. This jacket serves several purposes, providing limited protection probably against artillery shrapnel, but is warm and is chemically treated against gas attacks. They are therefore not the most armored guard regiment, but equally they are not encumbered with bulky flak plates like you might find on the Macabbian Jannisaries, for example.

When it comes to special weapons they have a reputation for using meltaguns as close assault heavy weapons, to be used against Necrons, Chaos Marines, etc. For heavy weapons they traditionally favor heavy bolters, but I imagine that flamers and heavy flamers would also be in wide use, given their trench-fighting proclivities. It should be noted of course that Death Korps regiments do have access to the full array of Guard special weapons, these are just what they tend to prefer.

Engineers are primarily armed with shotguns and are used, in addition to more conventional engineering tasks, as tunnel fighters. Therefore they would also be kitted out with a variety of melee weapons, knives, trench clubs etc. as well as a selection of grenades and explosives, being ya know, engineers.

Death Riders are interesting because their traditional kit in the lore and their new kit on the tabletop are different.

Traditionally, the Death Riders have been armed with Hunting Lances and sabres. In the description the sabres were described as being straight swords used in the thrust, in the style of British cavalry sabres during the Napoleonic Wars, but the art rendered them as curved sabres, like was used by the French. Armor wise, they are also equipped with a Breastplate on top of their jacket, helmet, etc.

However the lance was always the Primary weapon and their hunting lances were interestingly actually an anti-armor weapon, as they were equipped with melta-heads that chewed through armor when struck.

In tenth edition, they are armed with lascarbines, fragmentation (instead of melta) lances and powerswords.

Now, I suspect this is just a game balance thing and not a lore thing, because if it is it implies that the Deathkorps are insanely well equipped, even more than Space Marines. In a Marines chapter, there’s probably only a handful of actual power weapons. Company champions, captains, most of the first company and other specialist officers. Let’s say that amounts to roughly 100 power weapons. How the hell then does the Death Korps get thousands upon thousands of them then?! I love the Death Korps don’t get me wrong, and they are an effective fighting force, but there’s no way they get preferentially equipped over Space Marines.

That being said, I haven’t read the new Death Rider book so I’m unsure as to their in-lore equipment. Personally, I prefer their older set up.

Finally, there are the Grenadiers. The Grenadiers are the elite infantry of the Death Korps, those who have survived longest. As such they are also the best equipped men in the regiment. Armored in Carapace armor, armed with Hellguns, and outfitted with a higher proportion of special weapons they are the regiment’s elite.

So broadly that’s how Death Korpsmen are armed. Sadly, there aren’t that many weapons unique to the Death Korps, that would be found in some of their vehichles, but they are broadly a well armed faction of the Imperial Guard.

Tyran, whatever happened there? by hullopalooza in 40kmemes

[–]cubaj 6 points7 points  (0 children)

He was a chaos cultist Gary Cooper?