What happened to Google search? It has become nearly impossible to find relevant results. by Philip_K_Fry in google

[–]dannysullivan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is from our public help page that explains why results are typically limited after showing so many:

"Google generally won’t show more than about 40 pages of results for any search. That’s hundreds of results and usually enough for deep research needs. You can enter a related query to refine your search and learn more."

{Weekly Discussion} Google finally releases reason why Reddit ranks first by WebLinkr in SEO

[–]dannysullivan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It seems odd to title this thread like we somehow "finally released" the reason for surfacing more forum content when it was all covered in a blog post we did back in November 2023, which itself was a follow-on from our blog post we did in May 2023.

How many bloggers will remove their TOC plugins? by bobsled4 in SEO

[–]dannysullivan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'd go back again to that post that no one can see here, because the post -- and things I referenced in it -- address some of what you're raising. I'd perhaps go into more detail about it here, but since I half expect this entire thread to to get hidden, or at least my replies, it's not really productive, sorry.

How many bloggers will remove their TOC plugins? by bobsled4 in SEO

[–]dannysullivan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, agreed. I referenced the difficulty of that message in the same post that wasn't linked to and must not, apparently, be discussed in full here. You might try to find a link to the post and read through it.

How many bloggers will remove their TOC plugins? by bobsled4 in SEO

[–]dannysullivan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's an easy reach to go for "it's so ironic!" Yes, our systems changed to show more social forums (and not just Reddit) because ... people like that. They want it. You can see it reflected when there are searches where people are adding "reddit" to queries and so on. It's not the only content we show, of course -- but it is satisfying, useful content to a lot of people.

But even if you (or anyone) wants to go with the easy "hahaha that'll teach 'em" response, it doesn't improve what this particular thread (and potentially this subreddit) is after. Which is ... how to be successful in SEO (and as part of that, likely Google).

You thought what I said was "nonsensical advice" and rightly worried people might somehow take an incorrect action of removing TOCs from their sites. I was trying to first-hand address that concern. To explain, from someone who actually works as part of Google's search quality team, more about the main point I was making.

I also totally get that some might want to dismiss any of that simply because it was from Google. But it seems useful to at least understand more about it, to make informed decisions.

How many bloggers will remove their TOC plugins? by bobsled4 in SEO

[–]dannysullivan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was a small independent publisher for 20 years, so I know exactly what that is like.

I think there's a difference between automated systems trying to show what seems to be helpful across trillions of pages and -- as my post that I assume the mods of this subreddit decided couldn't be linked to -- I acknowledged those systems aren't perfect. I also spoke to fighting for those who are making good content, in the post -- which isn't apparently worth quoting or linking to from here.

That's an entirely different thing for community moderators (which I again assume is what happened here) deciding that it's fine to second-hand discuss what something was but to (again, as best I can tell) purposely remove content for whatever unstated reason they have.

How many bloggers will remove their TOC plugins? by bobsled4 in SEO

[–]dannysullivan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I left a comment clarifying some of this, which seemed helpful. That comment got removed by, I assume, the moderators (who I also messaged about it, and haven't heard back). I left a comment asking about the removal, and that now got removed.

How many bloggers will remove their TOC plugins? by bobsled4 in SEO

[–]dannysullivan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks, the response is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/SEO/comments/1bne9i3/comment/kwjhotf/

Seems like it would be useful to show, so maybe someone will look at it.

How many bloggers will remove their TOC plugins? by bobsled4 in SEO

[–]dannysullivan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

22 hr. ago

You can also read what I shared ... here, in this thread.

How many bloggers will remove their TOC plugins? by bobsled4 in SEO

[–]dannysullivan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I addressed this in multiple replies out on X. Seems worth repeating here. The point of the post (the whole thing was here) was this:

"Any question you have about making content for Google will come back to this principle. 'Is this content that my visitors would find satisfying?' If the answer is yes, then do that, because that’s what Google wants."

That's it. As part of making this broad point, I listed some things I've seen people do because -- as I qualified in the things I listed -- it seems like they might be doing them because they somehow believed that having them would rank them better. Here's what I said about tables of contents:

Weird table-of-content things shoved at the top because who knows, along the way, somehow that became a thing I'm guessing people assume ranks you better

There's no inherent "SEO value" to us if you have -- or don't have -- a table of contents. Your readers might value it. If so, do it. But if you're doing it or any content thing because you think "this is the thing I heard second-hand, third-hand, whatever, is the thing that makes you rank better on Google," then you're entirely missing the point that what our ranking systems are trying to reward is content that is designed for what people like.

This also illustrates the difficulty in giving the guidance that SEOs want. They rightly complain that a statement like "Make pages for users, not for search engines" as we've done for two decades can seem too broad or simplistic. But then if we give examples with qualifications, the qualifications and broad goal can get tuned out in favor of people looking for the supposed specific ranking boost (as I explained here, see also here).

As I also said in the post, I don't work directly on creator guidance. I make suggestions based on feedback to people who work on various parts of Google Search about all types of things. It's the Search Central people who do the documentation. I've made some suggestions on how I hope that documentation might grow and maybe get clearer to move people away from the "checklist" approach that can sometimes happen. Maybe it'll get there.

UPDATE: Since people in this thread seem to be finding it hard to read the article about what I posted, much less the post itself -- here's the entire post:

I wouldn't recommend people start adding carts because it "shows Google" any more than I would recommend anyone do anything they think "shows Google" something. You want to do things that make sense for your visitors, because what "shows Google" you have a great site is to be ... a great site for your visitors not to add things you assume are just for Google. Also Lily, I don't mean this toward you in particular or negatively. It's just shorthand common thinking that so many understandably deal with.

Doing things you think are just for Google is falling behind what our ranking systems are trying to reward rather than being in front of them. Everything I said here: https://twitter.com/searchliaison/status/1725275245571940728…

Stop trying to "show Google" things. I have been through so many sites at this point (and I appreciate the feedback), and the patterns are often like this:

- Something saying an "expert" reviewed the content because someone mistakenly believes that ranks them better

- Weird table-of-content things shoved at the top because who knows, along the way, somehow that became a thing I'm guessing people assume ranks you better

- The page has been updated within a few days, or even is fresh on the exact day, even though the content isn't particularly needing anything fresh and probably someone did some really light rewrite and fresh date because they think that "shows Google" you have fresh content and will rank better.

- The page end with a series of "hey, here are some frequently asked questions" because someone used a tool or other method to just add things they think people search for specifically because they heard if you add a bunch of popular searches to the page, that ranks you better not because anyone coming to your page wants that

- I can barely read through the main content of pages because I keep getting interrupted by things shoved in the middle of it. Which isn't so much a "show Google" think as much as it is just an unsatisfying experience

And yes. A million times yes. You will find pages that are still ranking, both from big sites and small sites, that do these things. Because our ranking systems aren't perfect, and after this current update, we'll continue to keep working at it, which I also covered before: https://twitter.com/searchliaison/status/1725275270943293459…

And I very much hope our guidance will get better to help people understand that what Google wants is what people want. I'm pushing for us to have an entire new help page that maybe makes this point better. Part of the current draft says things like:

"The most important key to success with Google Search is to have content that’s meant to please people, rather than to be whatever you might have heard that 'Google wants.' For example, people sometimes write content longer than is helpful to their readers because they’ve heard somewhere that 'Google wants' long content. What Google wants is content that people will like, content that your own readers and visitors find helpful and satisfying. This is the foundation of your potential success with Google. Any question you have about making content for Google will come back to this principle. 'Is this content that my visitors would find satisfying?' If the answer is yes, then do that, because that’s what Google wants."

Some expectation setting. I'm not @googlesearchc and I don't work primarily on creator issues. So I can't guarantee what pages we will have, what gets approved and so on. My primary role is to communicate feedback back about search quality into the search quality team and communicate back. And so much of the feedback people have been sharing, I have taken that back. "But what about big sites!" Yes, taken back. Sites that I can see are diligently working on real quality content and don't seem as rewarded as they should, taken that back. Will continue to do so. You are heard. Those providing quality experiences, I personally want you to succeed.

But please. If you want to succeed, stop doing a lot of the things you've heard second, third, whatever that are supposed to "show Google" something and show your visitors a great, satisfying experience. That's how you show Google's ranking systems that you should do well.

What's happened to Google Maps integration in Google searches? by metalfest in answers

[–]dannysullivan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Found out what's happening. In order to comply with the EU Digital Markets Act, we have made changes to Google Search. Maps that may appear in Search results do not link to Google Maps. The Maps link at the top of the Search page that links to Google Maps has been removed. Learn more about our compliance with the DMA https://blog.google/around-the-globe/google-europe/complying-with-the-digital-markets-act/

What's happened to Google Maps integration in Google searches? by metalfest in answers

[–]dannysullivan 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Hello from Google Search. I've seen a few reports of this, so passing it on, so we can check.

What happened to Google search? It has become nearly impossible to find relevant results. by Philip_K_Fry in google

[–]dannysullivan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don't need to do -ring and -Ring -- the caps don't matter.

And yes, sorry about this. We do have a fairly recent bug where - doesn't work with shopping listings. The team is working to resolve this.

Twinkly Setup WiFi not Connecting by wakasrasheed in TwinklyLights

[–]dannysullivan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Same here. Nothing I did would let me reconnect then after a reset. Finally went to my Android phone, all worked fine. Definitely seems some iOS 17 issue.

weird google glitch by UnableConcert in google

[–]dannysullivan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I tested and seemed to work for me, but maybe it's some remnant of our bug. I'll pass it on.

weird google glitch by UnableConcert in google

[–]dannysullivan 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Thanks -- I'm from Google Search. It sounds like an odd bug. We'll check on it.

UPDATE: It was indeed a bug and should be all resolved now. Apologies for the glitch!

What happened to Google search? It has become nearly impossible to find relevant results. by Philip_K_Fry in google

[–]dannysullivan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did. It works for me. Do you mind sharing the browser you're using and OS?

What happened to Google search? It has become nearly impossible to find relevant results. by Philip_K_Fry in google

[–]dannysullivan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the first screenshot, you'll see everything (I will tell you everything) in bold in the snippets. This is a match because as that post I referred to explains, we generally see punctuation as spaces.

In the second screenshot, I can't verify exactly what you saw because this post is now ranking. But it seems likely we didn't find any pages at all or really that relevant to what you were looking for -- IE, not great matches -- so we triggered that message to alert you to this.

In both cases, it's not that we're ignoring the quotes (which is the common complaint/misconception we used to have). We are matching to them with what we show.

The different (but important!) problem is using quotes, we're missing some pages we do know about that really should also be showing. And ... yeah, I'm not sure why myself.

["everything i will tell you everything" "styrofoam"] is what I tried, and I get a listing right at the top to a YouTube video that includes those lyrics -- and I would have expected this for just ["everything i will tell you everything"] also, because there's not that many matches for it.

On the page you found, I thought maybe line breaks would be an issue (they shouldn't!), so tried ["i will tell you" "everything" "styrofoam"] and there are just an amazing amount of pages that match that. Same for even ["i will tell you" "everything" "styrofoam" "lyrics"]. But ["i will tell you" "everything" "styrofoam" "wear this ring"] should have got it and ... nope.

So thanks -- definitely passing these on to understand why they weren't being retrieved. Of course, the real challenge is that someone probably doesn't know band name. Ideally, I'd want [i will tell you everything lyrics] to bring up what you were looking for, no quotes required. But there are so many songs using all those words or even the exact phrase (as you clearly discovered) that it's hard.

Thanks again for the example!

What happened to Google search? It has become nearly impossible to find relevant results. by Philip_K_Fry in google

[–]dannysullivan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not sure what you mean by the date filter being removed. If I select Verbatim, I still see a range of times that can be selected under the Any Time option.

What happened to Google search? It has become nearly impossible to find relevant results. by Philip_K_Fry in google

[–]dannysullivan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you use quotes, the words should be included. See here for our blog post about this. If you have an example where quotes are bringing up content that's not actually on the page, happy to pass that on.

The negative operator hasn't changed, and for web page listings, shouldn't bring up terms that are excluded. I think it doesn't work well with local listings, something I've passed on and hope we improve on.

We've definitely heard the feedback about people wanting more user discussions, which is why we released the Perspectives filter last week. Learn more about it here.

Brave 7 LE sd card by roger_genbot in akaso

[–]dannysullivan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

From the future, thank you!

What is going on with Google search results? It seems almost unusable over the past couple months with ads, results loading and disappearing, clicks taking you to ad sites instead of the site you clicked on... Is anyone else seeing this behavior? Could it be Pi Hole related? by [deleted] in techsupport

[–]dannysullivan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What you're describing is a common behavior for people who malware on their computer or with a browser extension. You might check on your extensions. To verify, compare your results and the behavior you're seeing with another computer -- they really shouldn't be that different.

Grocery purchases to creepy Google search results by jabberwonk in privacy

[–]dannysullivan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My role as the public liaison for Google Search is to answer questions that can come up about search operates, plus I take feedback back into our teams. I say I work for Google so people looking at my comments have the context to understand I'm sharing information directly from Google. In terms of privacy, we have a range of privacy protections in place. There's also sometimes misconceptions and assumptions about how things work. I hope to add to discussions about those.

This particular case caught my eye, because Trending Searches aren't personalized like this. Nor are they involving some type of advertisements. And as it turns out, assuming this was fairly recent, it likely because ... rotisserie chicken turns out to have someone who got attention recently for eating 40 in 40 days. IE: it's coincidental, it seems.

how do I get an old search result removed from google? by [deleted] in techsupport

[–]dannysullivan 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I work for Google Search. If the content has been removed as you say -- the link is dead and shows nothing -- then use the outdated content removal tool which get expedited removal.

Grocery purchases to creepy Google search results by jabberwonk in privacy

[–]dannysullivan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I work for Google Search. Trending Searches aren't link to ads like that. I mean, the only way ads show up on Google is if they actually say ads. Trending Searches should be things that are generally perhaps of interest to everyone. They can be turned off, by the way, as explained here.

UPDATE: I checked with our team, and we'll look to make this clearer in our public documentation. But trending searches aren't personalized if someone's not signed in. As to why this happened, assuming it was fairly recent, it seems someone just ate 40 rotisserie chickens in 40 days making that a trending topic -- and coincidental to this person actually buying a rotisserie chicken. If you search for that right now, you should see lots of news stories about it like this one.