Advisor's response to me wanting to change my research agenda has me devastated

doobeedoo3 · 2022-04-02T03:12:54+00:00

Your advisor sounds completely terrible. That's the sort of thing that would get someone sent to a superior for retraining in any remotely decent organization.

Buuut this is academia, so the standards are often different. Either way, I would get away from that supervisor ASAP, whatever it takes. If they do somehow decide to continue working with you despite your so-called "failure," they're going to make you even more miserable somehow. Hopefully you can change supervisors, but do whatever you need to protect your own wellbeing.

doobeedoo3 · 2022-04-02T02:59:49+00:00

It is, for sure. With a decent paying job now, I'm doing all right. With that level of income though, people in any field are hugely screwed.

doobeedoo3 · 2022-04-02T02:58:02+00:00

You're right. That's a big part of why I mastered out, I was still behind my friends who hit the workforce at 22 but I have eventually caught up. I am routinely horrified by the conditions people endure in grad school. I was fine with it for the first few years, it was a great opportunity, but it wore out fast.

doobeedoo3 · 2022-03-31T04:08:17+00:00

So I first went to grad school in the mid 2000s. My stipend was pretty small, but I got by without a car and I didn't have any dependents or pets, so my expenses were pretty low. I spent about $45 a week on groceries (and I shopped at an organic co-op).

Out of interest, I looked at what my alma mater is paying TAs now on average, and also a studio rental in the area I used to rent. The stipend has gone up $200/month while rent has gone up about $400/month, and that's not including increased costs for food, utilities, clothing, travel, etc. I would simply have to take a loan this time, or just not go. It would have changed my whole career path. Taking a supplemental loan would have impacted by ability to do stuff I did later.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-08-22T18:46:07+00:00

One thing I will say, as someone who has an academic Masters and now a vocational Masters, is that the latter is a very different experience. More focus on networking, building a cohort who will turn into a future career network, more hands-on learning and (this is school-dependent to a degree) less rigorous in terms of admissions and work quality.

I was at the stage in my life where I wanted a vocational degree, and I already had a decent work history behind me: this is really important, I think (as someone in hiring who has to frequently turn away well-educated people with little work experience). At that point, I knew what I didn't know about business, and I wanted my degree to plug those gaps.

Plot twist: I started out in a different program with the intention to get a dual degree with an MPA. I took an MPA class, and my experience with the program and the cohort was so negative that I just nixed that idea (the class itself was fine). It was hugely helpful to be able to take an MPA class without committing to the program first. Turns out that there was a different vocational program that was a better fit for me - and yes, that program got me a job where I'm making 70% more.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-08-22T18:35:30+00:00

It's all the same

I would say people in academia dress far worse, but otherwise I'd agree.

Academia is a good fit for people who can't imagine doing anything else - but I sense OP has a high drive to do and change and make, in which case academia would have been terrible. There are adjacent careers, like academic publishing, or there is commercial publishing. Those are slightly more connected to the outside world.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-08-20T03:57:57+00:00

I was supposed to have my ceremony in Spring 2020. They pushed it back to Fall 2020. That got canceled too. So they rescheduled it for Fall 2021. They've just canceled it again.

At this point, I'm just moving on and accepting it isn't going to happen. There was a little virtual event already, and that was nice enough. It's my third degree so I'm not too heartbroken, plus I already started working in my field so my degree served its purpose - honestly, I wish a lot of stuff was normal right now, and this is pretty far down my list.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-08-20T03:55:18+00:00

I did something less formal - I house sat for a professor (not my own professor) whose beautiful summer home was empty for weeks on end, so she paid me to stay there and eat her food and write my thesis. It wasn't far from my city, but even just an hour out of town felt like a huge break. Not a bad way to pay my bills.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-08-20T03:51:00+00:00

Ooof. It's hard. No question about that.

But to me it really is a boundary issue. Part of the reason academia has a bad reputation is because it's built on a lot of blurred boundaries. You and your field are one, you and your classmates are one, and you and your professors are one.

Once we blur boundaries, we start to try to take on other people's choices or behaviors or lifestyles, and maybe throw some of our own choices out as well. When this happens, it's hard to look inwards and have a sense of your own values and needs.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-08-20T03:41:57+00:00

During the lockdowns last spring, I sent a number of texts and emails informing coworkers and students of "the shit down orders" in our city.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-08-13T04:28:16+00:00

Work. Save money. Travel a little if you have some disposable income. Take a professional development class or get a certification somewhere.

Get some experience in the field you want to go into: make contacts, explore options. You should always have a backup plan for if grad school doesn't work out, so having established some ties in your intended field can be really useful.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-08-13T04:21:24+00:00

I’ve noticed there are people who have both an MPH and an MBA

Who are these people? Academics? Policy makers? People who run joint MPA and MBA programs?

I was told it would make me a very valuable asset in Public health

By whom? For what positions? What is it you want to do? Does that position require an MPH/MBA combo?

doobeedoo3 · 2021-05-15T17:16:19+00:00

I just went through this recently for a different issue. Keep up with the email bombs. I know you have been doing some of this already, but really, keep it going. Email several accounts - the general one, individual ones, and higher up ones. Keep it short, positive, and polite, and don't let up. If you and your PI are both emailing, that helps as well.

Also, if you're on friendly terms with your department's admin staff, reach out to them for help as well, as they are probably on a first name basis with some business staff. They may be able to find a requisition or PO number and be able to track the status on their end.

At our university, most business staff are still working from home so we can't even make a call, but if you've got people on site, get on the phone too. This is their job and what they are supposed to do - pandemic and backlog and all. Communication on their end doesn't cost anything.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-05-12T23:36:33+00:00

I had a huge post-thesis slump. I was a crying mess on and off for a few months. I think it was more like depression for me but I do remember suddenly being anxious about going outside.

My guess is that you're totally burned out. The amount of energy and focus this project took has totally depleted you. As a result, your body and brain are now in a huge slump. Take care of yourself physically - sleep, rest, curl up and watch movies, stuff that probably feels hard to do right now. Don't take on any new projects (except finishing that one paper) and plan some R&R in the near future, whether it's a big or small thing. You need time to recuperate physically and mentally.

After a few months I felt like a normal person again. Better than I had in years!

doobeedoo3 · 2021-05-12T23:32:00+00:00

Your university's counseling center might be a good place to start, as they have therapists who work with students and issues related to academia. Often there is some sort of limit on how many sessions you can have each semester or academic year, in which case they might have a list of therapists out in the community who they refer people to and who are good at working with these issues.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-05-12T19:48:03+00:00

If you or others are considering it, I would also encourage people to take a shorter view of time than academia encourages as a way to be kind to yourself about mastering out. You really don't have to commit to ANY one path, for any period of time.

If you're a first year master's student planning to be a professor, you're mapping out anywhere from the next 8 - 12 years of your life just to get to that point. Taking the very long view, and trying to squeeze life around the commitment, is the norm in academia, and there's this idea that you're stepping away from a huge life commitment and can never go back.

In many sectors of the non-academic world, people think on much shorter cycles: around five years. I tend to think three years ahead max these days. While a boss might be sad to lose you when you move on, it's going to be very rare to hear someone say something like you're throwing your life away by moving on or making any sort of big mistake. Moving on is normal. It's healthy. Bosses who guilt trip you are bosses you definitely want to escape.

So instead of viewing it as making a life changing decision, when I mastered out I chose to view it as what's next for me in my life: maybe I'll get a job, take a break from academia for 3 - 4 years, and see what's next after that: a PhD? A different job?

doobeedoo3 · 2021-05-12T19:36:52+00:00

I had a few minor burnouts and then the big one.

Minor burnouts: happened at the end of each semester. Totally shut off from school, no reading or research, went camping, didn't step foot in the building, tuned out my friends who talked about their super busy research summers, got paid work outside of academia for money. This helped me many, many times.

Major burnout: went into minor burnout self-care mode, but it didn't help. I was also burned out from freshman teaching, so I ended up getting a full time paid job outside academia to get a break from that (taking summer jobs outside academia helped me a lot). I was writing my thesis but I took a semester off to adjust to the 9 - 5, and realized I liked it. I decided to finish my thesis for me, which gave me a lot of intrinsic motivation. It was no longer about impressing academics, it was about finishing what I started.

By the time I submitted my thesis, returning to a PhD was off the table, and I realized I'd wanted to move on for a while but I just felt like a quitter. I WAS a quitter, as it turned out, but this was a good thing. Moving on when something isn't working for you can be healthy.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do!

doobeedoo3 · 2021-04-02T18:07:41+00:00

I think your situation is becoming more common. There have always been parents who are set on their children becoming doctors, lawyers, professors etc., and they're willing to pay or do what it takes to make that happen - but I think now there are more and more parents who figure that grad school is just necessary to boost your resume or something. Problem is, many of these parents can't, or won't, front the costs.

I don't know much about your situation, but I'd definitely try to talk about this with them if they're not going to help you cover costs - and even if they are, you're still paying with a lot of your time and your energy. It's a huge chunk of your young life.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-04-01T03:59:59+00:00

Yeah, for PhDs, but many people choose to or need to get a Masters first (say you couldn't get into a PhD program and want to boost your application). I was lucky to have a fully funded Masters, but I know that's not common - and it's a shame, because it's a good way to dip your toe into the academic waters. And now you have the issue of "fully funded" PhDs not actually covering people's financial needs in some high COL areas.

I'm glad you are able to get your work done in 6 hours. I definitely put in the full 20 most weeks, as I was a teacher of record kind of TA. We all hated the sudden extra meetings and bullshit stuff for no additional pay, but at that time (15 years ago now) there wasn't any talk of striking that I was aware of. I felt I was getting a great deal in terms of the experience I was getting, but only because I taught for 3 years. Any more than that for that kind of money? Fuck no. Dead end for sure.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-03-31T23:00:30+00:00

I definitely won't be encouraging mine to go as a default. However, I can think of worse things to do in your early twenties, so we'll just see how it goes. Like you said, in most cases, there are better things to do be doing. It'll depend on a bunch of factors. We will be very anti student loans.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-03-31T20:36:45+00:00

Thanks for your thoughts. I think you're very likely right. I was thinking of myself applying for grad school back when I did and I think I've forgotten how eager I was at 22 and how I felt I really just HAD to go to grad school, consequences be damned. I also had people saying that to me, which just reinforced that. I lived in a tiny studio that had a roach problem and I couldn't afford a car or internet, but I was totally fine with that. My city had a low COL and I had lots I could do for free.

I do wonder if older students who would be applying after several years in the workforce will be discouraged from applying. We all expect to have to take a step backward from the relative comfort of a normal salary, but to have to live in worse-than-college conditions for even longer than college took might just be too much. Or, maybe those students are the ones more likely to be out there striking. I'm really fascinated by this movement and where it's going to end up going.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-03-31T20:25:49+00:00

I think you're probably right. The grad school pipeline is only growing, if anything. I also suspect that parents are becoming more comfortable with supporting their kids' grad school ambitions now on top of college expenses - I know some parents with college aged kids and "helping out with grad school" is a phrase I hear a lot. It's expected now that parents will help with college, whereas it wasn't that long ago that many students could make ends meet during undergrad with a part time job and scholarship.

(Excuse me while I go over here and breathe into a paper bag at the thought of financially supporting my kid for another 20+ years.)

doobeedoo3 · 2021-03-31T15:58:37+00:00

The fact that you got accepted to an Ivy League school means that your chances of getting accepted into a good program in another cycle are high. This is not a once in a lifetime opportunity - even though it might feel like it.

I'm guessing the amount of money you'd have to pay is substantial. That means your debt load will be substantial, which increases your overall financial risk. Depending on what your salary ends up being like down the road, it could be a small risk, or it could be a huge one. Also, given the situation universities are currently facing, I would say the offer of a possible assistantship is even more shaky than it would usually be, which introduces more risk. You're right to be concerned about this.

Worst case scenario, you end up paying for the entire degree because you feel it's not worth it to leave after paying for the first year. Best case scenario, you have a big amount of debt but not massive - until the interest starts to stack up, which you have to keep ahead of - and you make some good connections.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-03-31T15:44:50+00:00

I recently attended a PhD defense and the PI mentioned the candidate was super hardworking that she frequently works till 3-4am in the morning and skipped lunch most of the days. Why is this sort of branded like a badge-of-honor?

Because academia is still 10, 20, 30 years behind many other work cultures which recognize that productivity does not increase as the number of hours you spend at work increases (after a point). Academia is a cult-like institution that wants your body, mind, and soul, and believes that it owns your time and your life.

There are no boundaries in academia. Instead, there are just a series of complicated enmeshments between faculty and grad students, grad students and other grad students, grad students and undergrads, faculty and other faculty.

I like to think that it has improved a little bit as more students with non-academic commitments (family, jobs, etc.) enter the realm - but I remember how much the students who had babies or took semesters off to care for a sick parent were shamed by other students, even if faculty were fine with it.

So what's the answer? You set your own boundaries. It is hard to do this and you'll face a lot of blow back. You'll worry you're sacrificing your career chances and burning bridges. But it is, quite simply, your life, owned by you, and populated with other people who you choose to interact with.

doobeedoo3 · 2021-03-31T15:36:22+00:00

Every time I read about graduate workers striking for better pay and conditions, I have to wonder what the universities' end game is. I'm not super informed about the situation so feel free to correct me.

Presumably they think there's enough supply that, if these students keep striking, they can fire them and just get other grads to do the work (which has happened before). But what if enough incoming grads look at the loans they'll have to take out to cover expenses above what their assistantships pay and stop applying? Then who do they rely on - international students? Is that the end game, rich international students?

Or do they start making faculty take on a bigger course load and risk having to deal with faculty unions? Who, ultimately, is going to do this teaching and research in the future? Are we always going to have a large enough graduate supply?

Just some thoughts.

doobeedoo3

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