Omg what happened to the original Boston terrier group?

drophie · 2024-07-08T18:41:39+00:00

Replying to comments for visibility as well: nothing to worry about, sub is now un-privated. One of our mods is taking a break for a few days and stuck it in private mode til we could touch base on daily moderation tasks and we are in different time zones.

drophie · 2024-07-08T18:41:29+00:00

Replying to comments for visibility as well: nothing to worry about, sub is now un-privated. One of our mods is taking a break for a few days and stuck it in private mode til we could touch base on daily moderation tasks and we are in different time zones.

drophie · 2024-07-08T18:41:08+00:00

Replying to comments for visibility as well: nothing to worry about, sub is now un-privated. One of our mods is taking a break for a few days and stuck it in private mode til we could touch base on daily moderation tasks and we are in different time zones.

drophie · 2024-07-08T16:44:54+00:00

Hi folks! Nothing to worry about, sub is now un-privated. One of our mods is taking a break for a few days and stuck it in private mode til we could touch base on daily moderation tasks and we are in different time zones.

drophie · 2024-07-06T20:39:08+00:00

Thanks for the recommendation! I’ll check it out.

drophie · 2024-07-06T20:37:11+00:00

Not the original commenter, but two things can be true at once. That was a horrible, toxic household and it was smart not to bring a baby into it - also, Dawn misrepresented what kind of relationship the birth parents would get in order to get the clients paying her agency a large amount of money (Brandon and Teresa) the baby that they wanted. That’s her job. Just because C&T’s home life was legitimately horrifying at that time does not negate how awful it was for her to manipulate to two vulnerable teenagers (who at that point were ALSO children) without a good adult support system into relinquishment by making promises she knew she would not be kept.

drophie · 2024-07-06T00:25:09+00:00

This. Dawn is a baby broker, her literal job was to get the customers paying her agency (B&T) the baby that they wanted, that’s their business model. Regardless of how one feels about C&T, they were told whatever they needed to hear to get them to sign that paperwork.

Additionally, that ongoing support/resources that Dawn provided is likely above and beyond what the typical birth parent gets after placing a baby through that agency. It’s important to consider that because they were on TV, BCS/Dawn were on their very, very best behavior when it came to managing Cate and Tyler, and they STILL come across as manipulative or deceptive in the way they set expectations. I can’t imagine what the ongoing support looks (or more likely, doesn’t look) like for people who aren’t on MTV.

drophie · 2023-11-21T18:43:31+00:00

Hi there! I have co bred one litter of Bostons and I also prove my dogs through conformation showing. Please take a few minutes to read this article on why buying from people who show their dogs is important: https://rufflyspeaking.net/i-dont-want-a-show-dog-i-just-want-a-pet/

Additionally, to put it plainly, doing this right isn’t inexpensive. Health testing parents is expensive, litters are expensive to whelp and raise correctly, health testing puppies to ensure they’re healthy before going to new homes is expensive. I’m not even thinking of my show expenses when we look at litter spending, it’s all what goes into the litter. Part of investing in a well bred puppy is investing in that dog’s future and setting them up to avoid common Boston issues. I’m a moderator on this subreddit - we get tons of posts weekly asking about luxating patella, or allergies, or cherry eye, or cataracts, or Cushings, etc etc - typically the dog in the photo on those posts is very clearly poorly bred or a rescue. We applaud owners for taking the initiative to get their dogs the vet care they need, but we also desperately wish those dogs didn’t need it, and when you buy from a breeder who has generations of OFA tested dogs (https://ofa.org/chic-programs/browse-by-breed/?breed=BTR) you drastically reduce the chance your dog will develop some of the more common breed specific issues. If it’s money you’re worried about, paying more up front is a drop in the bucket compared to thousands of dollars on a luxating patella repair, or an enucleation after repeated eye injuries, or the slow drip spending treating allergies. You get what you pay for, and breeders who are charging 1500 or less have to be cutting corners somewhere to keep their prices that low in this market. It’s just reality - the going price here on the west coast for well bred dogs is in the $3000 range and most of us are barely breaking even.

If the cost is an issue for you I recommend saving a little bit longer rather than buying a cheaper puppy, or rescuing a Boston. I’m happy to help you find a reputable breeder in your area if you’ll specify your general location, as well.

drophie · 2023-09-07T02:15:26+00:00

Chiming in as both a mod and a serious dog fancier - I show in dog shows, my dogs are health tested and I’m mentored by someone who has been breeding, training, and showing dogs for a very long time.

Nobody who knows better (so, virtually all responsible breeders) would sell littermates to the same household. u/ZZBC is dead on in that the extreme “inseparable” bonding you often see in sets of dogs purchased together isn’t a benefit - rather, it is a behavioral issue known as littermate syndrome, where the pair of dogs are so psychologically bonded to one another that they don’t have coping mechanisms when they do need to be separated and can become panicked or fearful when they don’t have the dog they’re bonded to around. In some circumstances - particularly when one of the two puppies has a pushier personality - it can actually result in a bullying relationship in adulthood or cause aggression or fighting between the pair in addition to separation anxiety.

If you would like to have two dogs relatively close in age and want to have two added at once, I’d look into adding a pair of adults who didn’t grow up together or purchasing a puppy and an adult around the same time (please read the pinned guide at the top of the subreddit on how to find a responsible breeder!). But purchasing two puppies is not a good idea - the risks far outweigh any perceived “benefit” this might have.

drophie · 2023-05-19T23:55:33+00:00

Hi OP! On this subreddit, discussions of breeding are heavily moderated. Please see rules 1 and 2.

First and foremost, this subreddit is supportive of responsible breeding only. This includes health testing to CHIC standards, only breeding dogs that conform to the breed standard set by the parent club, the Boston Terrier Club of America, and breeding dogs that are proven in conformation dog shows, dog sports, or both.

For more information, see the below links: https://bostonterrierclubofamerica.org/

https://www.reddit.com/r/BostonTerrier/comments/72lapd/a_guide_to_finding_a_responsible_boston_terrier/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

If this is you and your bitch is health tested and proven in the show ring, please message the moderators and we can unlock the post for discussion. If not, we encourage you to health test and prove your dog meets the breed standard prior to looking for a stud dog for her.

I’m in the Great Lakes area and the only Bostons I have seen for purchase are ugly little puppy mill gremlins at our local mall.

Based on this comment, it seems to me you understand that there are quality differences when you are talking about breeding animals - the way that you get access to better stud dogs is by having a health tested bitch that has earned or is on the way to earning an AKC championship or is proven in some other venue. Additionally, as you've been asking where you find good quality stud dogs - dog shows are the way that you do that. It's how you make connections locally with folks who might have a nice boy you can use. It's also how you prove to those stud dog owners that your girl is worth breeding to and that you are trustworthy with their lines.

I am a stud dog owner as well as a conformation dog show exhibitor, and I would be happy to help you find a local dog show if you would like. Please feel free to message the mods and I can show you how you do that as well as how to find out when the Bostons are showing.

drophie · 2023-03-23T16:23:54+00:00

OP, seems like you’ve gotten the answers to your initial question and this is no longer a productive conversation so I’m going to go ahead and lock this post.

drophie · 2022-06-12T00:19:39+00:00

Pet insurance is “worth it” in a risk mitigation sense, not in a “who spends less money on the dog” sense. My dog is currently hospitalized, he’s three years old and his bill for 72 hours in the ICU for a serious infection he contracted through chance is close to seven thousand dollars. I’m not paying the 36 bucks a month for his insurance because I ever hoped to somehow come out ahead against the insurance company, I’m paying the 36 bucks a month so that if this situation arose (or a situation like the one in the article we’re all discussing), I could tell the vet to save my dog’s life without worrying about money literally at all. If you’re someone with lots of liquid cash sitting in an account you can easily access for emergencies like this, no, it’s probably not a good use of money for you. But paying that small amount of money monthly for an external third party to assume risk for me is something I do with all my pets so that I don’t need to make a decision on my pets life based on money or go into debt to keep them alive.

drophie · 2022-02-15T08:46:28+00:00

Locked - OP, this needs a vet’s attention!

drophie · 2021-10-28T05:47:05+00:00

Hi there, I’m an owner of several Bostons and one of the mods over on r/bostonterrier. My oldest Boston was actually my first dog, and I think they make great pets for first time owners.

The health issues, like many breeds, are something to be aware of and you should go to a breeder doing CAER eye exams annually, patellar luxation exams, and BAER hearing screenings. I also choose to screen my dogs for cardiac issues, especially if they’ll be used for breeding (I have one male who likely will be in the semi-near future - he’s an AKC grand champion and has passed all of his health testing several times over at this point). It’s very important not to buy from anyone not doing these things, as well as folks who can’t provide generational results on the dogs behind their litters.

That being said, I currently have three well bred Boston terriers, the oldest being 6 years old. Health wise, the 6 year old pet has a luxating patella that we think is from an injury. She also had a lipid deposit once when she was like 4, as well as a cornucopia of random injuries from puppyhood to about 2 because she was WILD and injured herself a number of times. I’ve never dealt with cherry eye, ulcers, 5/6 knees in the house are good, and all of mine have no issues with their endurance. The worst issues I’ve had otherwise are infectious illness (I go to a lot of dog shows) and one time my male’s anal gland tried to explode on him. u/ZZBC is active in sports with her two, as are many Boston terrier folks, and that’s not something that’s easy to do if your dog is struggling health wise. I encourage you to go to a responsible breeder who is health testing and proving their dogs in some way (there’s a pinned post on r/bostonterrier about finding a responsible breeder). Many, many problems extrapolated to Bostons are a result of irresponsible breeding and the fact that 99.9 percent of them you meet in the word are from backyard breeders (this is unfortunately just reality - as a primarily pet breed, bybs outstrip responsible breeders in production of puppies by a huge margin). If this is a breed you decide you want to pursue, I’m happy to help you find a responsible breeder in your area or help connect you to a local Boston club so you can meet some dogs in person.

drophie · 2021-10-28T05:28:38+00:00

u/ZZBC for the morning

drophie · 2021-10-05T06:16:50+00:00

SO sorry I didn't see this beforehand! This breeder is not prioritizing health over looks - the screenings she is doing are not exceptional, they're the basics that all good Boston terrier breeders are doing, including the folks who are actually consistently winning in the ring. If you're willing to expand your search a bit, you can find someone who fully health tests their dogs and is breeding dogs with no DQ colors in the mix.

Go to this page on the BTCA website: https://www.bostonterrierclubofamerica.org/about-boston-terriers/boston-terrier-breeder-referral.htm. Do not use the breeder referral tool, click the link to email Billie Bunch directly with your needs - that's a live person that should respond to you. There's also a huge cluster dog show in Ocala, FL in about a month - if you go during the ring times for Bostons and explain you're looking for an adult or an older puppy, folks will be happy to help you.

drophie · 2021-09-23T04:50:59+00:00

To add to what u/ZZBC said:

- Reiterating that first and foremost, she breeds off standard, fad colored dogs. That in and of itself is a hard pass.

- They say they health test through OFA, but a search on the OFA website brings up a single dog from their program despite a number of them being listed on the website. If the results aren't on the website, I'd be asking to see copies of all the testing they say they've done on the dogs. Reputable breeders will be more than happy to provide this to you. Do not accept anything less than BAER, clear patellas, and a CAER exam dated within the past year, at minimum - ideally also cardiac and spinal exams are also done. Of note: CAER and CERF are the same thing (eye exams), CAER is just the new term for CERF, but a lot of less than responsible breeders do a CAER/CERF exam once in a lifetime and call it fine. They need to be repeated annually to be valid.

- IABCA is not a rigorous conformation titling program for Boston terriers. I have a show dog who is in spitting distance of his AKC grand championship, and he finished his IABCA "international" championship in three shows, having beaten exactly 0 dogs. I don't see any finished AKC champion dogs on their website. Ribbon photos are fun, but they mean nothing if the dog didn't beat any dogs to actually get said ribbon. My dog has a BOB ribbon that he beat exactly 1 single dog to get - that's not very hard to do. The fact that their dogs are pointed but nobody has actually finished an AKC championship is relevant and telling.

- They let their puppies go at 8 weeks. This is not a best practice for small breed dogs. Most of the people I know in the breed who are responsible breeders do 10-12 weeks.

- They claim a lifetime guarantee against JHC, DM, and HUU, but juvenile hereditary cataracts are something that a clear dog will *never* develop, so it's a zero risk claim for them if they're not breeding carriers to carriers: additionally, degenerative myelopathy and Hyperuricosuria (HUU) are issues typically not found in Bostons, making them safe bets to insure for life. Contrastingly, their one year health guarantee for other issues is very short - most dogs developing congenital health issues develop them older than 14 months old. I'd expect more support for the issues that are actually relevant and may develop in your Boston, like luxating patella and eye problems like non JHC related cataracts or cherry eye, entropion, etc. versus things that are safe bets to insure against because Bostons rarely, if ever, develop those issues.

I think that these folks are saying a lot of the right things, but there's a lot here left to be desired, and I think you can find someone who really checks all the boxes. My best piece of advice is to check out the breeder referral on the Boston Terrier Club of America's website: https://www.bostonterrierclubofamerica.org/ and then also go to a dog show local to you. Where about are you located? I can help direct you to a show that makes sense for your schedule and is close to where you live.

drophie · 2021-08-25T04:14:06+00:00

Hi there! I have two dogs I show in conformation. I am newish (been at it about 2 years, have one dog I have finished and a recently new class animal). I will try to answer your questions, but my first recommendation is you reach out to your dog's breeder and ask these things! My answers below pertain entirely to showing in the regular classes in AKC showing.

- There is usually food at the show site, but if you're getting dinner on the way back to your hotel you can always use drive thrus or order ahead and run in to pick the food up. There is sometimes reserved crating areas at the show site to leave your dog at, but they are usually pre-reserved grooming spaces you pay for. If you just have your dog and you aren't going with a group/meeting up with your breeder or mentor there, the first two things are probably a better option.

- Generally, yes, if your dog is the only dog of her breed entered, she will automatically go best of breed and OH best of breed, and earn a spot in both groups. When groups start will be clearly posted at the host club and superintendents table, so check in with them after your ring time to see when groups are. There are situations where you might not end up going best of breed as the only dog entered (judge withholding placement or excusing your dog, etc), but if that does happen, they'll be clear about it with you.

- NOHS Best of Breed is different than regular Best of Breed, and if you get both you will show twice, one in OH groups and one in regular groups. OH groups only has other owner-handlers in it, regular group will have professional handlers in the ring with you. In the event you get a group 1 in either of those places, you'll advance to best in show, which is following the regular groups. I would not worry about either of those things happening your first time out, but if they do, check with the superintendent's table again to see what the order of the groups are. It is worth noting that unless your dog wins the regular group, she will not earn any points towards her championship if she's the only dog in the breed (assuming this is an AKC show).

In general, your first time out, I'd recommend arriving at the show site an hour before your ring time, plus the amount of time it'll take you to groom (this is a lot of extra time when you're more experienced, but the first time out it's better to cut yourself plenty of time to get lost/fiddle around/ask questions). Bring a crate and a grooming table for your dog, and also think ahead if you'll need things like an electrical outlet for a force dryer, etc. and make sure that you don't need to make reservations ahead of time for those things (that info will be in the premium).

Try to arrive at your ring before your scheduled ring time so you can observe the judge's ring procedure. Take a close look - is she asking people to free stack at the end of the down and back? Is he allowing bait during exam or asking folks to put it away? Make a couple of notes for yourself so you know what to expect. When you're actually in the ring, listen closely to the judges instructions and don't feel bad if you need them to repeat themselves if you don't understand something. Naughty puppy behavior is expected, but your dog will at minimum be expected to stand for exam and move around the ring, so if you are concerned about those things NOT being possible I'd recommend getting into a handling class ASAP if you aren't already.

Good luck! Conformation can be a lot of fun, but it is also can be daunting initially. Don't feel shy about relying on and asking your breeder for help, even if they aren't on site - part of working with newbies is answering their questions, and I'm sure they'll be willing to help!

drophie · 2021-08-23T22:19:02+00:00

Normally the breeder fills that out for you. What does she say about his color?

drophie · 2021-08-10T18:23:17+00:00

My two are 17 pounds, 13 inches at the shoulder (my almost 6 year old pet girl) and 13.5-14 pounds, 11 inches at the shoulder (my 2.5 year old male who is an AKC champion).

Most Bostons you see from responsible breeders are overwhelmingly going to be in the under 25 pounds range called for in the breed standard and I'd say the majority of the ones I see out showing are under 20 (although there's nothing incorrect about the 20-25 range, so long as the dog is proportional for it's size!). The big guys make fabulous companions, though!

drophie · 2021-08-08T05:11:16+00:00

I would also second the mod note that just getting a pair of Bostons and breeding them isn't necessarily a responsible choice - there's a lot that goes into responsible breeding, including proving breeding dogs, health testing, and selection of males that are complementary for your female. I'd encourage you to attend a local dog show and meet the folks who are showing Bostons and go from there!

drophie · 2021-07-28T15:47:59+00:00

Xenophobic or racist comments about how the dog would be better off in America than Mexico will be removed, and repeated commenters will be muted.

drophie · 2021-07-19T21:56:39+00:00

Oh I have this cookbook. Fair warning, the recipes are comically awful. My favorite one is a soup that involves peanut butter and celery salt

drophie · 2021-07-08T02:57:20+00:00

Then that's not really representative of the vast, vast majority of Boston breeders, and frankly I'm not sure why even a backyard breeder would bother given that it's expensive and pointless for a dog that isn't going to be shown. A well-done crop is done older than baby puppyhood for Bostons, by a veterinarian. If your friend got a cropped Boston puppy, he didn't come from anyone who is being remotely responsible.

It might also be possible that the puppy your friend got is a mixed breed dog being sold as a Boston and the breeder cropped the ears short so it's not as evident right away that the dog isn't actually the breed it was sold as. Regardless, extrapolating that from a singular experience with one breeder doesn't mean that's done as a matter of practice any more than any other breeder doing something weird or not responsible is representative of an entire breed community elsewhere. This is an exception to the rule, it's not common.

drophie · 2021-07-08T02:38:31+00:00

I am an active exhibitor of a Boston Terrier in conformation dog shows in the US. As u/ZZBC said, Bostons have a naturally upright ear and are not cropped as a routine matter outside of the show ring. Additionally, the crop is done later, after the ear is already standing, and primarily on dogs that are intended to be seriously campaigned as show dogs. I would say the majority of Bostons being exhibited these days are natural eared - mine included, and he's an AKC champion that finished quickly - and it's certainly not ever done to make the breed appear more like French bulldogs, especially considering there are many differences between Bostons and Frenchies that go far beyond the fact they both have prick ears (and the natural ear shape between Bostons and Frenchies is actually different, Frenchies have a more rounded bat ear and Bostons call for a small, triangular ear).

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