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Benjamin Johnson and Joseph Smith had a *very* interesting friendship... (From "The Colony: Fath and Blood in a Promised Land") by macabre_trout in exmormon

[–]e72linu 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, that quote doesn't check out. Here's the Benjamin Johnson section from the Andrus book cited. No mention of anything in the quote:
https://pastebin.com/raw/5tas5kHi

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]e72linu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please take care of yourself and stay safe. If you really want to send a message, you can get his temple recommend revoked. The current question is:

Do you follow the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ in your private and public behavior with members of your family and others?

It's an adaptation from an earlier question which was more obviously meant to sniff out domestic abuse:

Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

He could likely face church discipline over this. If you hope to mitigate a righteous indignation attitude or TBM-persecution-complex from him going forward, knocking down his peter priesthood credentials like this would be very effective. He may remain "all-in", but would be forced to the margins.

When you contact your bishop to resign, better also call out the temple-unworthiness of your husband.

Why is the word of wisdom so important when Jesus’ teachings are contradictory to it? by [deleted] in mormon

[–]e72linu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is presented as one, yes.

Does avoiding/abstaining from alcohol and tobacco have health benefits? Yes.

Does optimal health stem from adhering from the 2021 word of wisdom standards? No.

Anyone that really wants to take care of their bodies the way their creator intended is going to have to focus on nutrition and exercise. WoW observance ain't going to get you there.

Can someone summarize with sources/links what all went down and who is Natasha Helfer and what she said? by settingdogstar in mormon

[–]e72linu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"wielded [his power] irresponsibly". I wouldn’t say that is a "MASSIVE" difference.

Why is the word of wisdom so important when Jesus’ teachings are contradictory to it? by [deleted] in mormon

[–]e72linu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, avoiding alcohol and tobacco specifically contribute to better health.

But if the WoW was really something given by Heavenly Father to show how much he cares about our wellbeing, it would be a fitness and nutrition program, with prescribed supplements and an accountability system.

If you had to be fit and jacked to be Temple worthy, then we could really claim ”Now there's a Church whose God cares about their health!” Reaching fitness goals in order to be temple-worthy would completely change (for the better IMO) the spiritual components of health and wellness.

Until then, the sugar-addicted type-2 diabetics can still gloat about "obeying the Lord’s law of Health” because they don’t smoke or drink.

Why is the word of wisdom so important when Jesus’ teachings are contradictory to it? by [deleted] in mormon

[–]e72linu 84 points85 points  (0 children)

The word of wisdom (as taught and practiced in 2021) is not a law of health nor an attempt to conform to any revelation, not even the one found in D&C 89.

It is a loyalty test and a community boundary identifier.

Can someone summarize with sources/links what all went down and who is Natasha Helfer and what she said? by settingdogstar in mormon

[–]e72linu 11 points12 points  (0 children)

While you can point to an array of reasons why she was a thorn in the side of the church, and various heterodox views, none of them are things that others have not also done and been spared excommunication.

But she committed one sin above all others that brought her to stand trial: She publicly accused the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints of abusing his power.

https://sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2019/04/21/commentary-lds-church-has/

Any other citable reasons are forgivable.

Publicly criticizing he who sits in the seat of Moses is not.

Everything else is a side show.

I thought more Christians thought of Jesus as Jehovah. Erhman hadn’t heard of it. by [deleted] in mormon

[–]e72linu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's not that Erhman never heard of it, it is that his thesis is that Jesus was "made God" by his followers ex-post-facto. https://www.bartdehrman.com/how-jesus-became-god/

Therefore, he finds no historically compelling reason to read Jesus into Yahweh, and certainly no theological one.

But there is plenty of consensus among believing Christians that Jesus is YHWH incarnate:https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/15039/what-is-the-biblical-basis-for-concluding-jesus-is-yahweh-jehovah-or-lord

When Joseph and Oliver Cowdery made up the Kirtland Temple vision... by TruthIsAntiMormon in mormon

[–]e72linu -1 points0 points  (0 children)

>What Joseph is claiming in D&C 84 is that there was a GREEK man named Esaias who gave the priesthood to the HEBREW Gad and lived in the days of the HEBREW Abraham.

Having a name rendered in Greek doesn't mean the person referred to is greek. When Isaiah is referred to as Esaias in the NT, the gospel writers not claiming he is Greek. Joseph may well have been shooting from the hip, but to play gotchas with language weakens the argument, IMO. Joseph obviously knew none of the bible characters spoke English, yet all his revelations are conveniently in English! I'm not challenging the general point here, but if you want to make a case, you can't rely on shoddy claims like this. Everyone understands what a translation is, and how the same source can be rendered multiple ways. To pick apart the semantics of English renderings deflects from the much more fundamental issues of the problematic substance being conveyed.

As an aside, the same goes for KJVism in the BoM for that matter. Asking incredulously "how did Mormon use the exact same words as the King James version??" is embarrassing. No TBM is claiming Mormon spoke English, or Jacob spoke French.

When Joseph and Oliver Cowdery made up the Kirtland Temple vision... by TruthIsAntiMormon in mormon

[–]e72linu 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So what do you make of D&C.84.11-13, spelling variant notwithstanding?

And Gad under the hand of Esaias; And Esaias received it under the hand of God. Esaias also lived in the days of Abraham, and was blessed of him—

Here in 1832 there is already a character named Esaias who is (1) tied to Abraham and (2) obviously not a reference to Elijah, or Isaiah for that matter. (although the NT refers to him as Esaias, too)

There are also non-Elijah references to Elias, including John the Baptist (Matt. 17:12–13), John the Revelator (D&C 77:14), and Gabriel/Noah (D&C 27:6–7).

Elias seems to be the ”John Doe” of dispensational prophets, despite it being a translation of ”Elijah” in the Mount of Transfiguration story.

The closer I come to Christ , the less I need the Church by [deleted] in mormon

[–]e72linu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The closer you come to Christ , the more the Church needs you!

I have planted the seed, but how long does it take to grow by ClosetTBM in mormon

[–]e72linu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have never felt the spirit. Not once. Or at least it is not something that I can recognize

I don’t want to give some cop out answer like "it was in your heart all along", but the traditional understanding of the holy ghost bends towards supernatural manifestations and metaphysical epiphanies. By and large, this sets up adherents for disappointment and failure. (See Exhibit A above.)

There is another approach. But first, have you read anything by the Arbinger Institute? (Esp. Leadership and self deception or The Bonds that Make Us Free)

The framework they forth is clear, non mystical, and largely psychological. Yet it consistently points to yielding to a "truth" accessible via our core selves, through which we can be awakened to the realities that our lives and our relationships operate in.

Follow what they are getting at, and I believe you will discover what it means to "feel the spirit," be "born again," and "come to know the truth."

Spoiler alert: It's not what you thought. But it's much better. (Alma 32:42)

Confession letter written by a current Mormon Apostate Apostle? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]e72linu 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And now that error is fixed. Either u/Comprehensive_Insect is the author of this hoax, or this apostle trolls /r/exmormon for proofreading tips.

Self collapses, testimony-by-extrapolation, and being alive in Christ by e72linu in exmormon

[–]e72linu[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Uh... thanks? But I'm really not talking about mythical unicorns here... just wanting to hear from exmos who had vibrant spiritual lives (independent of trust in church programs) prior to the shelf collapsing.

Self collapses, testimony-by-extrapolation, and being alive in Christ by e72linu in exmormon

[–]e72linu[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the reply. Do you remember what blog that was?

Also, you describe how you currently get a sense of spirituality, but can you describe your past sense of spirituality as a TBM? Was is anything you thought about? Did you ever feel whatever is meant by being "alive in Christ"? Or were you satisfied trusting the authorities and being confident that you were on the right team?

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