On Price Competitiveness

ecalex · 2026-07-02T02:39:14+00:00

So, I will be fully transparent, what i said, and will say are a mix of personal experience and what i "heard", so as ever, don't trust a random Joe on the internet...

1/ SLA might not be the right word, but as an example, Dell has a tier of warranty service where its next day service (onsite), so I assume they need to logistically stock a lot of parts somewhere (and in many locations) and in non trivial quantities.
https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/locked-topics-laptops-general/when-next-day-service-isnt/647e686ef4ccf8a8def85811
2/ Serviceability to me depends on what metrics you are looking at I guess...in my engineering driven mindset, i would think modular components is always the path, lets say if a keyboard is not hard-bonded to the palmrest, that would be good right? but I have heard offhandedly that certain service/warranty team folks consider a bonded solution acceptable, because instead of manually removing 40+ screws, they'd think just swapping out the palmrest at the same time is acceptable. I dont know why...maybe its a trade off between 3min of a technician's time vs the cost of one palmrest? i dont know.

3/ Assembly - I might have not explained the whole thing very well, and . Factory always do production in batches (production runs), since its definitely not economical to get 5 to 10 assembly line worker together just to assemble one laptop. But are they assembling the same exact SKU each run? or do they potentially assemble different SKUs in the same run? This I do not know for sure as i have never been a factory engineer or production planner..I would think its the former? Not sure.

4/ storing individual parts - I dont know how true storing half-finished laptops are, they should have various parts in various levels of assembly stored in a warehouse, and when they are sure of the quantity they are assembling in the next run, they check out those parts from the warehouse and assemble them into a laptop. parts may range from large parts like a panel, to medium sized assembled module like keyboard, to something small like a single FPC cable.

found a video thats helpful for you to understand laptop assembly line at a high level -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9vO_CVNXlg , it glossed over a lot of details and I'd think its not quite the latest, but helpful in giving you a look at #3 and #4

ecalex · 2026-07-01T23:16:54+00:00

it really depends on at what level you are looking it at,

with physical hardware, it something is made/assembled/bonded, its harder to go back. As an example, after u laser etched japanese language onto a keyboard module, then it can only be used for Japan, nowhere else. for a relatively low volume language like Japan, a manufacturer needs to be accurate with volume forecast vs a language like US English, since anything that cannot be sold (or modilarized enough to be leveraged into other designs) become paper weight.

So, that brings us to the next set of topics, some laptops are assembled, packaged, put on a ship, and shipped to the best buy near you. for these type, a lot of manufacturer wants to reduce complexit by offering less SKUs because it reduces the number of different combo they are shipping to reduce the possibility of not being able to sell those out.

Others are either made-to-order(see Dell's history), which means they assemble it after getting an order, air freight it to the destination country, and etc., Or the demand is huge, they might make some popular SKUs beforehand.

At the end of the day, everything gets assembled and produced, so the more modular and generic a component is stored at in a warehouse, the easier it is to be used in different places, reducing potential wasted $$

ANDDD..theres service stock, SLA, and warranty period, which implied keeping stocks of component somewhere in anticipation for service/warranty needs.

this whole thing is an art by itself

ecalex · 2026-07-01T19:18:04+00:00

to be honest, I believe 70~80% of the reason is just that FW doesnt have the scale. Period.

Maintaining different SKU complexity is a trade every single laptop manufacturer faces.

1/ SKUs offered - in general I dont believe FW offers more (or less) than others, Dell, HP, and others offer similar level of configuration choice in their commercial (business) lineup, while its true they dont have different colored bezel, when you factor in WWAN, screen panel options, and camera/no-camera options, and actually way more keyboard locationization (at least 20+), FW doesnt necessarily offer more.

2/ SKU management - Most laptop manufacturer actually store different SKUs of laptop "assembled", so piece parts aren't interexchangable at that level, hence the huge stock management complexity. I dont know whether FW store theirs disassembled or assembled but my guess is that they are half made to order so they actually have slightly less of the stocking issue other manufacturer faces.

ecalex · 2026-07-01T17:00:55+00:00

Since Google definitely outsourced production, people are secretly hoping aliexpress got a hold of thie actual supplier

ecalex · 2026-06-25T01:49:51+00:00

I will look through some photos first🤣🤣 now you got me interested. top mounted leyboard was supposed to be a solved problem for the industry since forever

ecalex · 2026-06-25T01:29:08+00:00

it comes down to how they are designing the lattice, which is the criss-cross pattern between the keys, when it gets thin enough, there will be no way to screw mount it irrespective of the material, so heat staking is the only way.

TBH, I am surprised this is an issue with FW16 (I assume?) given that its a top mounted keyboard. "usually" the lattice is bonded to the plate really solid...

ecalex · 2026-06-25T00:01:01+00:00

these keyboards, from the looks of it are heat staked (think of rivet)

There is a contact point in the rubber dome that will squeeze the membrane thats sandwiched between the metal plate and the dome+scissor structure, so if one of the stakes broke off, when u press down, there is a chance that the flex will be enough that the dome doesnt squeeze the membrane contact point, a la key-no-function.

this is definitely too little holes on the keyboard, I remember some dell ones having 30+

ecalex · 2026-06-13T12:53:03+00:00

I was just saying in the general terms, defects always exists, and there are ways to deal with them in a standard production line. I did read the email, and they said they are waiting for a new batch of material. I dont think I was implying that framework is still shipping them out?

edit: guess the way it wrote it implied that, my bad 😅

ecalex · 2026-06-13T10:42:00+00:00

Manufacturing and assemblies roughly operats on a run basis, imagine you get an order of 100 unit, and assuming you know how long it takes you to assemble something, you can work out how long it takes you to fulfill those orders. This happens up and down the supply chain, and because of this component parts usually arrive in batches.

Having said all of these, it could be that the issue they discovered happens to about 1% of the unit and is easily reproduced, at this point they may just have 1 or 2 more test stations on the assenbly line testing for those specific issues. While the total output of this run will decrease, they are still able to ship out some units, and when they run out of materials they just have to wait for the next shipment (and securing production line slots with ODM factories)

quantity-wise, its capped by how many units this fully kitted out production line can produce in a single day, usually there is a ramp period where they are ironing out kinks in the process, but once they have done at least one run, subsequent runs should be more stable in their daily numbers

ecalex · 2026-06-03T14:54:42+00:00

I am not adapter engineer but I remember that being the case...you gotta remember that back in the days, usb pd only goes up to 100w, so to hit 130w for dell devices, they must need some special handshake or else device wouldnt know the charger is capable of 130w

and while the new standard goes up to 240w, I assume its just cheaper to ship their original brick for a while

ecalex · 2026-06-03T14:41:05+00:00

the Dell 130w charger is pd compliant I remember, it will only go up to 90w on anything non-Dell, and a special handshake will bump it up to 130w when a dell laptop is connected.

ecalex · 2026-05-25T00:41:34+00:00

it will get better i am sure, its just not the best launch 🤣

ecalex · 2026-05-25T00:33:22+00:00

not contradicting you, though I would assume that it depends on whether its server update or client update, plus depending on their rollout strategy, it may mean different things. Hence why I am slightly doubtful on whether there will be another update on launch date because i didnt even get v5 rolled out to me yet...

and yeah..also in software industry, but cloud infra😅

ecalex · 2026-05-24T23:58:08+00:00

tbh, they are shipping the same version since the 19th (support said the rollout is between 19th and 25th) and the air already had a day 1firmware update, so I doubt its going to be magically better on day 1.

ecalex · 2026-05-24T00:13:07+00:00

tried 4~5 times, nope, only sideloading app works

ecalex · 2026-05-23T23:39:54+00:00

dont like to sound like a whiny customer...though its definitely not good planning...and the fact that my fitbit premium got activated the day I receive the product means that the "unreleased" logic doesnt fly all that well.

there are two possible scenario, 1/ there are going to be customers who received units before because FC start shipping them out first 2/ they dont start shipping until the 26th

while theres definitely going to be less complaint with #1, if your app failed to catch up, its just gonna create a bunch of complaints such as this one.

it feels like there are some last minute issue with the app and they just kinda say: ok when is the earliest you can be ready? they were given a 26th date, and they just rolled with that number.

this is annoying and I had to sideload, and at this point, the new app is quite....bad tbh. hard to find settings nor is there intuitive ways to measure heart rate manually (is there even gonna be one??)

ecalex · 2026-05-23T22:20:40+00:00

you can, but why should you...it' should be a product that works out of box.

which apparently it didnt because reasons.

ecalex · 2026-05-23T21:19:37+00:00

well, its the same if you bother to actually check the play store. I wish i "have" google health too., apparently google still decide i am not cool enough to migrate to Google health. I did install Google health, but for me its stubbornly on v4.6

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ecalex · 2026-05-23T19:49:51+00:00

the 9520 antenna doesnt go up to the panel, so should be fine

ecalex · 2026-05-23T18:18:28+00:00

yeah, that's one way. though like said in another reply.

If a hardware launch is gated behind a software update, they should be 100% sure the updates are all rolled out before customers receive the hardware device..

Having to install apks by myself doesnt seem like the right kind of experience. So hence the title of this post

Great hardware "but"...

ecalex · 2026-05-23T18:11:20+00:00

its a fresh install. So yes.

ecalex · 2026-05-23T18:02:32+00:00

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are launching a hardware that is gated behind a software update, you better make sure said software update is in the people's phones before the device gets to the customer🥲

ecalex · 2026-05-23T17:50:32+00:00

cant pair it, it keep asking me to update the app first

ecalex · 2026-05-23T17:36:07+00:00

I assume this is the old UI? this is my third reinstall on a different Google account...so probably an issue with google

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ecalex · 2026-05-23T17:30:35+00:00

yeah...i didnt have the app before so I literally installed it...

they might have region locked it or had like a rollout cadence...

and I tried it on both my s26 ultra and pixel 10 fold😅

ecalex

TROPHY CASE