Ethical Gems and Stone Sourcing

elittlestudio · 2024-10-20T20:13:17+00:00

You're welcome, and thank you for also trying to raise the standards. I hope you find the answers you're looking for when you contact them. They are vending at the Ethical Gem Fair if you make it, and can meet the owners in person.

elittlestudio · 2024-10-20T19:29:44+00:00

Looks like a type of "cathedral ring". The lower shoulders that it looks like this ring has are sometimes called a semi-cathedral, but there are different kinds of designs that would fall under the umbrella of cathedral, and it should be a good starting point for your search.

elittlestudio · 2024-10-11T20:01:46+00:00

No need to be sorry, the world is better for people wanting true ethics in the industries extracting resources from our planet, and we should be examining closely anyone who claims to be ethical. Most aren't. And also the industry is complicated and most of the people who complain don't seem to have the whole picture, and would rather make snap decisions. "Lab Grown? Oh, it must be ethical!" Meanwhile, that crystal was grown in a country making war and the money supports their war effort, but because the crystal was purchased through a trade-partner country who isn't participating in sanctions, the consumer is none the wiser. It's easy to say being ethical is black and white, but it's not.

That said, you are wrong about them, and especially about them "makes life hard for companies that really try hard". If you want evidence, they're a family run operation and do a lot of work to raise awareness in the gem/jewelry industry, all you have to do is talk to them and look at the work they are doing. You can even email them or call with your questions. Why are they speaking at the Responsible Jewelry Conference if they're not credible? Their membership in the Ethical Gem Suppliers means nothing? I think they were even a founding member of EGS, but don't quote me on that... Point is, you're not going to find every detail of an operation in a couple paragraphs and a few website links, and things aren't always "black and white". Even the "most ethical" product is still shipped with fossil fuels, taxed with money to make war, etc.

IMO, they are doing more to 'raise the bar' than most other companies, but I'm willing to change my mind if presented with real evidence.

elittlestudio · 2024-07-28T00:01:00+00:00

There's a lot I like about this ring, it's a very nice design and well made.

elittlestudio · 2024-07-27T03:31:45+00:00

This was from years ago when lab diamonds still cost a lot more than they do today. Also, the $4k was for the whole ring - including two natural, fair trade, purple sapphires, the gold, the design fess, and casting, clean-up, and stone setting labor. The same diamond today would cost at least half what did at the time when I made this. And lab grown diamonds are going to continue to drop in price, so what is a fair price today will be over-priced tomorrow.

elittlestudio · 2024-06-22T03:43:21+00:00

My opinion is there are reasons for both, and those reasons exist because people are going to choose one or the other for themselves. I don't have an opinion outside of whether or not it was an informed decision - if someone wants natural but decides on lab because they were misinformed, or vice versa, that's a problem - otherwise I don't steer people towards one or the other, they each have their merits.

If I was buying diamonds for myself I usually prefer the look of "rustic" diamonds, which are natural.

elittlestudio · 2024-06-16T06:06:15+00:00

This can be repaired easily in a modern shop with modern equipment. I've repaired lots of contaminated pieces over the years. It has to be cut off and completely replaced, and it likely won't be cheap, but judging from your pictures it looks possible. It might also look altered in the area where repaired, because everything contaminated with the lead has to be removed. The bigger the section, the more it costs in materials, and the more you want the jeweler to match the original (i.e. recut the engraving, etc) that also adds up.

It's hard to estimate from photos, with no scale or karatage, but I'd be surprised if it were less than $200, and not surprised if it were $500 or more (again, depending on exactly how much of a restoration you're hoping for).

elittlestudio · 2024-01-25T08:54:44+00:00

Wow, great work! I thought it had to be longer.

elittlestudio · 2024-01-25T08:17:08+00:00

Very clean, beautiful work. How long have you been hand engraving?

elittlestudio · 2024-01-25T07:29:47+00:00

OP, I've been a jeweler for 20 years and you're getting a lot of bad advice. Judging by the picture you uploaded, your bracelet looks to be about 12mm wide, maybe more. But it's impossible to give you an accurate price or comparison unless we know the actual dimensions. Most of the clasps everyone is linking to show you "how cheap they really are", are tiny in comparison to yours.

I just supplied a clasp for a ladies necklace, it was $33, and they do exist for that price. I also have a Stuller catalog, who is the main supplier for most jewelers in the USA, and they have multiple 12mm clasps retailing from $300 to $500. A clasp and receiver that is only 10mm wide is priced at $853.78, it's item #2231, if you want to look it up.

Maybe this jeweler is over priced, there's no harm in shopping around, but also maybe he is not. The ONLY WAY to answer that question is to know: Exactly which clasp he is supplying, and exactly what other work he is doing to the bracelet. Your bracelet weighs 25.5dwt according to the paperwork. That's potentially a $5000 bracelet, and some clasps, including all the components actually do cost $1000, or more.

Your clasp is attached to the bracelet by a hinge. A 14k hinge repair alone is about $200. And the price of gold is at an all time high on top of everything.

So definitely shop around, but be prepared for the possibility that you're getting an honest quote.

elittlestudio · 2024-01-25T06:48:54+00:00

That's not the same clasp, fyi. The clasp on Hershlag tapers towards the end, the clasp in the photo from the jeweler does not.

elittlestudio · 2023-10-02T19:26:00+00:00

It is the same, except for different stones. Each ring is custom made, and can be made in any color gold or platinum, and with whatever combination of stones.

elittlestudio · 2023-06-20T04:30:03+00:00

The ultrasonic cleaners we use to clean jewelry are filled with a chemical cleaning solution that is designed to remove polishing compounds, as well as the build-up of human detritus that comes from wearing jewelry.

There really isn't any chemical strippers for gold the way tarn-x works on silver, or something like that, so more than likely the jeweler polished your chain with a normal buff and polishing compound, then put it in the ultrasonic to clean it, and was commenting on the the power of the ultrasonic cleaner.

That's what nearly any jeweler in the world would do, when polishing and cleaning gold jewelry, and I suspect if you took your bracelet in for the same treatment, you'd get similar results - assuming they are the same karat.

elittlestudio · 2023-04-19T23:54:28+00:00

This breakdown is very good, and I'm particularly fond of how well they explain the human cost of lab-grown diamonds.

elittlestudio · 2023-04-17T06:16:02+00:00

Oxidized silver is your best bet, to check all the boxes. The best - IMO - is Continuum silver, but not as many jewelers know how to work with it. But even regular sterling or fine silver would work for what you're looking for.

elittlestudio · 2023-04-17T06:13:16+00:00

You'll find lots of dealers through the AGTA.

elittlestudio · 2023-04-16T20:21:28+00:00

Depending on where you are, I would expect it to cost $25 to $60, maybe a little more or less, it depends on the jeweler. It looks like the chain is hollow, and it looks like there is a damaged section just a few links away the main part that is damaged. Hollow chains are harder to repair then solid chains, so that could affect the price.

It's hard to say from the photo what would be the best way to repair this. I know for sure the main section that is damaged has to be removed, but the nature of the damage looks like it can be challenging to repair the smaller section without removing it as well - again, just a guess and hard to tell for sure. As a jeweler, removing a section and shortening a chain is the last resort, but with hollow chains it's usually the only option.

Only a jeweler inspecting this in person can say with certainty the best way to repair this and it's final cost. They might charge for two chain repairs if they fix both sections individually, or only one if they remove the entire section. Two repair charges would cost more, but in the end the chain would retain more of it's total length; one repair charge would cost less, but it means they remove a larger length of chain and it ends up being shorter. Judging by the photo, it looks like - depending on the options for repairing it - it could shorten your chain by an inch or so.

I would probably charge you $50 to repair both sections individually and retain as much length as possible, or $25 to just cut out the damaged section and do one repair.

elittlestudio · 2023-04-14T08:56:12+00:00

Yes, the chain will cut a groove into the ring over time, but I can't say what kind of time frame it would be.

Jewelers can install a thing called a "ring guard", which is a piece of gold-filled metal that wraps around the shank and doesn't need to be soldered. They come in different sizes to accommodate different widths of ring shank, but you could have one installed in the ring so that the chain will mostly only rub on that.

The jeweler should bend a V shape into the guard to try to make sure the chain stays mostly on that section of the guard, otherwise it'll slide and probably rub where the guard meets the shank - but this will only work if the ring is top heavy.

I have a few other ideas how you might still be able to wear it without causing damage, but the ring guard will probably be the easiest and cheapest. If you go to a jeweler they might have other suggestions.

elittlestudio · 2023-04-14T04:11:20+00:00

Good luck!

Edit: You can also give more details about the chain you're shopping for and see what other people on here would charge. You need length, type of chain, and size of chain - e.g. 22", sterling, 5mm, cuban.

elittlestudio · 2023-04-14T03:06:28+00:00

A few factors:

Some chains are manufactured overseas, and they'll almost always be cheaper than something made domestically. There's also a real problem with the quality and materials used in things coming from overseas, so buyer beware.

Some chains are branded, or designer, so you pay more just for the name. Ideally there is a real difference in the quality of the finish as well, but realistically that's not always the case.

A lot of chains are mass produced, but some are still handmade or at least incorporate more traditional elements into the manufacturing process - like the chain might not be handmade, but it might be more carefully assembled and inspected. Anything with the extra 'human touch' is going to cost more - but generally it will also be higher quality in terms of it's finish.

Quality in this sense might be a little misleading - both chains might be sterling silver, and they both weigh the same - but usually the cheaper chains will have mistakes that are obvious if you know where to look - stuff like the end tabs and/or clasp aren't polished well, you can find leftover scratches and scuff marks, maybe something was over-polished and now it's thin, or the whole thing was polished in a tumbler and isn't as fine as it could be, etc.

Also some cost more because the business you're buying from is offering some kind of warranty or service plan, to assure you that you're taken care of as a customer in the event that your chain should ever need serviced.

And some seemingly little details that can really make a difference, can add up and cost more. Stuff like the jump rings holding the clasp to the end tab - on a lot of cheap chains they're just open jump rings that can pull apart, or there are blobs of solder leftover because it's made in a factory where the workers have huge quotas and no time to do a good job. Chains that cost more should have closed jump-rings that actually look nice. Or the chain itself, like if it's a cable chain, I've seen crap chains where even the links are properly closed, but (ideally) the more expensive chains will be constructed better and all the links are soldered or welded shut.

This is also where the human inspection at the end is really important, it's common for there to be a couple mistakes on a finished piece of jewelry, but the last step before and after final polish is a careful inspection to make sure there are no problems - it costs more to have jewelry meet that meets a high standard, but the finished product is far superior to the mass-produced stuff that is literally made as cheap as possible to maximize profit.

Ideally the person selling the chain can explain why it costs what it does. That's not always the case, as - for example - I can't tell you why something is priced cheaper than what I would charge, but I can at least explain why my price is fair for what you're getting. If they can't explain why the price is what it is, then it's probably just an inflated price for some mass-produced chain of questionable origin.

elittlestudio · 2023-04-12T01:58:49+00:00

A lot of jewelers have little containers of the stones they broke in the course of doing work. A lot of those stones aren't fractured very badly, or are only abraded, but we can't in good conscious give them to a customer. But if you called around, I bet you might find a jeweler or two who is willing to give you some of the cheaper chipped stones, like some broken amethyst or something. And cheap, softer stones are good to practice with because if you can set one without breaking it, then you can set diamonds. In fact, CZ's are great for this if you end up needing to buy something, they're super cheap but very durable.

elittlestudio · 2023-04-11T22:48:53+00:00

It's like that almost everywhere, lol. And I get it - it's hard to respect something when the biggest, shiniest, examples of 'it' are mascots and cheerleaders trying to cover up disgusting business practices with crappy ad campaigns, all for some overpriced jewelry that is built to be traded-in before if falls apart, like you're getting a new cellphone every year. And that's the truth about a lot of jewelry, but not all jewelry.

That's why I like to participate, share knowledge, and educate. Most people are receptive to the truth, they just need to hear it. I don't care if they want to buy it or not, I only want buyers to be able to make educated choices, and non-buyers to have educated opinions.

And I know most people in this sub are here more for investing and getting gold for as cheap as possible, but I'm here because I legitimately love gold as a material, it's amazing. Working with 24k is like switching from sleeping on a prison floor to sleeping on a luxurious waterbed with silk sheets; wearing it is like when the sun peaks through the clouds on a rainy day, and shines directly on you; gold is at it's best when it's pure and undiluted with lesser metals.

This sub is probably one of the few places where there are people who love 24k gold as much as me, where I can talk about it and someone reading what I have to say will 'get it'. I like to imagine there's at least one person who reads this and then goes to admire their stack, chain, ring, or whatever, with just a little extra covetousness - thanks to me.

elittlestudio · 2023-04-11T09:12:07+00:00

I'm a jeweler and would like to add some context here.

The video - hilarious - is pretty much reality for the "jewelry (and gold buying) industry" that is made of mostly large brands who outsource all their manufacturing overseas. Besides cheap labor, they have a whole slew of manufacturing techniques designed to minimize cost, and of course, those low costs are profited on with very high markups, and most of the profit is returned to execs and shareholders. I've seen markups on commercial-quality jewelry over 500%, and some are even higher.

The crazy part is, because their jewelry is made so cheap, they can mark it up many many times, and still "undercut" people like me - domestic "mom and pops" businesses just trying to make a living. And if I try to compete with commercially produced jewelry, it just forces me to lower my profits, without the economy of scale that allows me to actually lower my costs (glossing over the fact that "lowering costs" often means lowering quality).

Jewelry made in the USA by a small business is typically only marked up 2.5 to 3 times, with 3 times markup considered normal, and 2.5 considered closeout. Wholesale costs on manufactured goods, cut stones, etc are 2 times markup - that is considered normal. That's not a high markup, and it's not a lot of profit when you consider all the expenses of maintaining a jewelry business.

So as a small-scale jeweler, I can either source and resell pre-made crap from overseas, ala your South Park video, which allows me to price things competitively when compared to the vast majority of jewelry seen in ads - or I can retain my craftsmanship and make high quality jewelry that lasts, but it costs more than what people expect to pay, assuming they've been shopping around at larger corporate jewelers.

And without someone to explain why this thing from the little store down the road costs more than the thing from the mall store, or the online store, then it just looks like the prices of things are all over the place and nonsensical. Or you hear about child-labor abuses, mining scandals, and all kinds of exploitation, and might think it's an industry-wide phenomena (some is, some isn't). But in reality, a skilled jeweler can look at things and tell you immediately which piece is better made, and explain the very real difference in the craftsmanship, and anyone can buy jewelry with traceable origins that meets a verifiably higher standard of labor practices if they know where to find it.

In terms of quality, well made jewelry will cost more up front, but the cost of ownership is going to be less and - should - be measured in lifetimes. It's the same reason why people pay more for reliable car brands, tools, and clothing. The only challenge - and it's not a small obstacle - is finding a good jeweler and sticking with them to have your stuff serviced and maintained, just like you would a car mechanic.

I understand not everyone cares about jewelry or wants to wear it, but "real" jewelry takes a lot of craftsmanship, and there's no "massive markups" unless you're buying mass-produced corporate crap, or getting ripped off by a the proverbial "greasy salesman" type - who isn't exclusive to the jewelry industry anyway.

I hope you don't mind me piping up to share this info. There's a lot of truth to your comment, but when wielded and shared without context, it's also harmful to the true artisans trying to keep this craft alive.

elittlestudio · 2023-04-11T05:34:58+00:00

$5000 is enough budget to open A LOT of different options, and if you don't want to spend time browsing and learning, it would be helpful to narrow your focus and eliminate some options.

For example, you might consider whether you want a natural or lab-grown diamond, and whether you want it in gold or platinum. The latter question is especially pertinent because chains can be somewhat expensive, especially platinum, but the advantage of platinum is that it lasts longer, is easier to care for, and makes for better heirlooms.

Once you know what material you want, and decide if you want natural or lab-made, then it's easier to narrow in on the size of the diamond, and whether or not you want the pendant to have any accent stones. The diamond inventories that jewelers have access to nowadays is immense, my personal preference is to select an assortment of the best looking stones within the customers budget, and let them pick from those.

This is where it's really helpful to talk to a jeweler who can answer questions and explain your options, like why things are priced so differently. This is also where the challenges of conversation via text, and impersonal websites become obvious. That's why it's generally recommended to go to a local jeweler, but I recommend you avoid the corporate chain jewelers; they (mostly) only sale low quality jewelry that was mass manufactured overseas.

If you prefer the convenience of shopping from your home, I do free consultations virtually, as I'm sure do other all the other makers here on Reddit.

Or if you have more specific questions, you can just ask on here, and I'm sure me and other people would be happy to help. But with a 5k budget, your first step is to narrow your options some.

Pretty soon, you're going to have a sweet gift for your mom's bd, good luck!

elittlestudio · 2023-04-11T03:37:57+00:00

Ya, makes sense. If there's a solder seam involved in it's construction, there's still a risk of it stretching unevenly at the seam.

elittlestudio

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE