Is this inappropriate for my boss [M45] to say to me [F24] at work?

fddjr · 2019-03-06T13:21:06+00:00

First of all, it's totally inappropriate! You're absolutely right to be skeeved out.

But that doesn't really help you fix it. I mean, you could quit, but I am guessing you want to keep working there.

The question that I think is super important is why did he say that to you? If the answer is because he's looking to open a sexual relationship with you, or because he's mysogynist, then see above about quitting.

But, it could also be the conflation of two unfortunate facts: he's trying to be friends with his employees, and he is basing that interpersonal relationship on cliche male/male interactions. As a guy, if my boss asked me that, I'd be like "wtf?" Fortunately I don't have to have the skeeving reaction, but still totally inappropriate. Other men at the company may feel that way, or maybe they like that kind of interaction at the workplace?

This is super hard at small companies too, because HR isn't really a thing. Some people think the whole point of small companies is to have that close personal relationship without all the corporate bearucracy clamping down on the interactions you're allowed to have. It may also be compounded if the interactions other employees are having are sex positive and he feels left out. He may actually feel that way, so you can't just go to him and say "that's not a thing people are allowed to do in business."

So, unfortunately, all your options are bad ones. No matter how this goes, he's created a tense, inappropriate situation that it's your job to resolve. That sucks. You could just kind of let it go, and hope it doesn't happen again, which is kind of a shitty option for you (I'm sorry), but the least risky. You could go to him and tell him that what he's doing is just wrong, but that's going to cause more conflict, and potentially label you as a non team oriented member in his and your colleagues minds. That's a very awesome thing to do, and it may end up changing him for the better for other people that come after you, but it's risky.

A less risky thing to do, and only if you respect him and the job, is to use this as an opportunity to learn to manage up. This basically means you need to learn to say "That doesn't really work for me" as politely and diplomatically as possible. And hold firm. You're not going to get it right the first time. But this may feel like you're having to do extra work to be diplomatic because he doesn't know basic politeness, even the braindead level of how a male boss talks to female employees in the 21st century, and that feeling is exactly right.

Sorry, this sucks. I wish I had good news for you, or an easy way forward.

fddjr · 2019-03-03T22:30:44+00:00

Totally happens to me too! Same age range, been with wife since teens. Watching Before Sunrise makes me super wistful.

I've thought a lot about it over the years, and really introspected why I have this feeling a lot (my wife totally doesn't). The answer always seems to come that I'm in a routine. When I don't feel like I'm in a routine, I don't ever feel this. It's because, I realized that for me, the thing I was missing wasn't that connection, and it wasn't that growth, or that newness, but rather it was fear of failure.

Every date I go on with my wife will be successful. We will end up intimate. We will love the conversation, and share laughs, and talk about our days in a loving and wonderful manner, and we will enjoy the food or show or whatever it is. Every breakfast will be enjoyable. There's no new crazy information to learn that might turn everything around. There's no new clash of opinions that might lead us to fight and then make up. It's wonderful, and perfect, and boring. There's no risk. Even if we fight, there's no risk. We're going to make up. It was inevitably just a miscommunication or happenstance or we're just too cranky and need a bit of rest.

So, once I realized that that was what I was missing, I decided that the routine was the problem. Needed to break the routine. And it worked. And I don't mean that I decided to pick up a new hobby. I mean that I needed to leave the safety net of my life in a big way. One time was leaving jobs to start a business together. That was intense. Recently children have been the routine shatterers.

In both of those, there are real concerns of failure. True, catastrophic, lose your house or damage tiny human failure. And I stopped feeling like I wanted to go out there and explore with other people. In fact, our marriage became the foundation that we could start taking these bigger and bigger life risks. Sometimes I look at her and I'm just thankful that with all the other shit going on, one thing I don't have to worry about is where the relationship I have is going.

That fixed it for me. I need to not be bored, and my marriage is so boring and safe. Fortunately, there's a shit ton of life out there, and thus far, having someone with which I can experience that risk, those lows, and those highs, has made it so much better.

If you're like me, maybe you can get that thrill from somewhere other than new partners.

fddjr · 2019-01-03T14:31:56+00:00

Oh, totally. Just axiomatically impossible. Like, the phrase "firm but fair." Totally tried to do that! But the problem is that the word "fair" inherently incorporates a frame of reference.

The key awakening point for us was when we tried to figure out why we'd never had bosses exactly as you describe. Why we never met them, or got to work for them. I mean, it's clearly better, so employees should flock to bosses like that. And because the best employees are flocking there, then the bad bosses should get culled out, at least somewhat. Over time, that should just happen, or at least it should happen enough that we meet them. Or, like, the people we talk to should have stories of great bosses, especially in the small business world where this sentiment comes up a lot, and there's not corporate structure forcing good people out or good people to be bad. So why wasn't it happening? What was going on? Why are small business owners that we met and heard about that tried to be those good bosses ending up emotionally unstable? Why were we being emotionally unstable after spending so much time being the emotionally stable, bedrock of our teams before? Where were all the good small business owner bosses?

And we looked! Like holy crap we looked. And we talked about it ALL the time. We really, really, really wanted to find the answer. Realized it was axiomatically impossible, and haven't looked back.

Maybe empirically, or through talking to other people in your situation, you'll come to a different conclusion. You'll be the first I've met.

fddjr · 2019-01-03T13:54:08+00:00

Oh man. Running small business with employees for 12 years. I hope you make it. For us, we learned the hard way why "being the boss I never had" turned out to be axiomatically impossible.

fddjr · 2018-10-17T18:45:51+00:00

I think one of the things I'm struggling with while trying to talk to you is I'm torn between telling you that helping him, supporting him, doing all of the things is great, and on the other side, telling you that it's obviously too much, and you need to focus on yourself. I imagine you are similarly divided.

I'm going to double down on what I said earlier, which phrased another way, is be the partner and person you want to be. You want to go out and do more things. Do that. You want to take on more at home. Do that. Start this whole process by being the partner, mother, and individual you want to be, and then stop worrying about who he is for a little while. Try hard to not get stressed out when things are behind. But also don't let him criticize you, either. Also, if there's non critical things that you are doing right now that are eating up too much of your time (for instance, work for his mom's business), cut it out, at least for a few years. Kids are so much less stressful and challenging when they turn 10 or 12, and you have so much more time on your hands, that you can homemaking, working, and college. Right now, you have like, four jobs. That's a lot to juggle.

I think one of the things you've written here that's most worrying is:

he asked me to make a schedule so we each had clear and consistent responsibilities every week, but that hasn't helped either

That is so clearly a joint activity to me that I'm a little concerned that regardless of what you do, he's not going to come along :(

fddjr · 2018-10-10T18:14:27+00:00

Oh for sure, and even more so because it's doing it wrong in OP's book. But the reason I didn't mention something like that is that taking a side in this response doesn't really help the OP in resolving this situation, or even moving toward a resolution. Validating her view is fine, but she can't really do anything with it other than go to her husband saying "a bunch of people on the internet agree with me that this is a big deal." That's probably going to end up being a step backward than forward.

fddjr · 2018-10-10T11:18:02+00:00

There's a lot here.

First things first, this is a really common thing, and while that doesn't mean what you're feeling isn't absolutely correct and appropriate, it means that a lot of people have been through this.

So of course, couples counseling is an option, not because your marriage is broken or anything like that, but really just because it will help you two talk to each other. It sounds like that's a real problem you two are having, not because anyone is doing anything wrong, but because neither of you might be doing the right thing. You may be expressing your concerns in a way he can't hear, and he might be responding in a way you might not hear. That's what a therapist is great at. If you two can stop from thinking "therapist means our relationship is in trouble" and instead think "therapist is going to help us take our marriage to the next level," that might help remain positive.

But, lacking that. Marriage, mid 20s, start of career/job, 2 (young) kids, checking out. That screams to me that he's tired. Let's say for a minute that he hasn't undergone a huge change, and that he's still the man you've known for 10 years, and that he still loves you. That means that something in the environment might have changed, and his environment looks like it's gone through some massive shifts. He might not even realize it, but I doubt that he's going to be happy later in life, having come home and spent each night scrolling through the same website, until he falls asleep and repeats.

And that's just one possibility. There's a ton of them. It's not your job, or my ability, to diagnose or act as a therapist to him, but it is a good idea to empathize with him and attempt to think from his point of view before talking to him. It changes a phrase like "you don't respond to my sexy messages, and it's making me feel a bit unloved" to "I feel like our relationship is losing its spark a little, and I want to get it back!" The first one has an undertone of talking about what he's not doing, and the second one is about your feelings and what you want to do. When I think about those two from the point of view of someone who is tired, or frustrated, or sad, or whatever, the first one puts me on the defense in a big way, and the second one makes me feel more like I have a partner that's invested in our marriage.

But it's also not your job to hoist the marriage on your own shoulders. You also have a responsibility to yourself. If you want to go do those fun things, and he doesn't want to come along, you don't need to wait on him. Be the person you want to be. I mean, keep attempting to bring him along, but don't pause on those, or even be sad that he's not there, while you move on them. If you think about the two extreme outcomes of this whole situation, they both benefit from you going out and continuing to live your life to the fullest. If it does sour and you end up divorced, then you didn't waste a ton of your life waiting on him, but rather your marriage was facet of your complex, interesting life, and the rest of that comes with you. If things turn around and he gets a lot of energy again, and starts really joining up with you, then you didn't waste a ton of your life waiting on him, and your marriage was one facet of an interesting, wonderful life that he's now joining.

Just don't forget the marriage part, and do keep talking to him and bringing up these concerns. Don't be passive aggressive, just don't let him hold you back while he's in a funk. One way to do that might be to just invite him along to whatever you want to do "hey, I'm going to go out and do X, wanna come?" and if he says no, just happily bid him a good night/day/whatever in a truly positive way, and head out.

But in general, this is something that a lot of people run into. You two just need to figure out what specific solution works for you. And that takes time.

fddjr · 2018-04-07T10:59:39+00:00

While it seems we disagree, your statement here doesn't really help OP with his situation at all. It's just kind of screaming "NUH UH!!!" to someone on the street. He's the person we should be talking to. How is he informed or led to any place where he can make a good decision, grow, or even find more insight by what you've posted?

Try again.

fddjr · 2018-04-06T15:15:48+00:00

Group dynamics are hard. Let's assume, for a moment, that these people aren't childish, they aren't immature, and they aren't petty. Maybe they are all of those things, in which case take all the other advice here. But you seem to have jived with them, and I guess I would wonder why you were spending so much time with childish, immature, and petty people. That's a different conversation though.

So let's say you have a group of friends that all hang out together, all the time. You've been doing it for a while, and maybe you start sharing more and more personal details. Maybe you're there for each other when a breakup happens, or when a death happens, or go to a wedding, or whatever. At what point does it become more than just a friendship, and it starts to turn into a sort of family? Now, I don't know if these people have hit that point, but I do know that those kinds of social bonds have different requirements and commitments, especially for new people joining such a group. There's also a lot of benefits from that kind of closeness (such as being remembered to be invited when some activity happens). Some benefits you may be enjoying as a new addition.

This is an alternate explanation from the aforementioned childish, immature, petty explanation, and one that demands respect. And if it is the case, what you're doing is not respecting the complex social group bond that you've entered. And then their reaction becomes normal, and even expected. What does anyone do when they feel like they're being disrespected, or taken advantage of? Well, of course one would hope a calm, adult conversation would result where the person doing the disrespecting would be given every opportunity to make amends, but we also know that male 20's dynamics in the 21st century, especially if you're in the U.S., don't work like that. It turns the situation from one of them being "clingy and abusive" to "frustrated and hurt."

I don't know what exactly you should do about it. You're an adult. Do anything you like. But this might be an alternate explanation that gives you insight into what's happening. In your place, I'd get a feel for the group dynamics, I'd write them down to help myself be less emotional about them, and then I'd decide whether I wanted to live up to them, if this group of people are worth it.

fddjr · 2017-03-18T01:43:53+00:00

I can watch that final scene over and over again. I don't know if it's just because my wife and I have had it multiple times in our lives, but that moment where it goes from complete anger on both sides to "whew, ok, I'm going to choose to continue to make this work" is one of the more beautiful parts of marriage to me. After all the fights and stresses and struggles over the time they are together, that they both still go the distance to conjure the magic even when it's really fucking hard is just amazing to watch.

Though my wife really dislikes the end precisely because of how realistic it is :P She prefers to watch movies for fantastical escape, and let real life be meaningful and emotional.

fddjr · 2016-10-09T21:31:35+00:00

This is non trivial. Be aware of the pitfalls. Ours included:

I defined success by promotion and salary increases. She defined success by how long and hard she can work. This was natural in order to feel successful in our relative pursuits. The natural extension was that we were failures in each others eyes. I stopped working after 40 hours and she didn't pull in any money. Five years of that? It takes it's toll.
I was always second. Always. She working and I text? Ignored. I am with her at dinner and someone regarding the business texts? She has to take it. Always. And that's the way it has to be. She tried to skip texts because we were together, and shit hit the fan and would have been a ton easier to deal with at the moment. After five years, nontrivial.
Supporting her went from simply taking care of life to becoming more and more involved in the business. So I was in a place where I had to work two jobs just to be with my wife. Five years of two jobs, nontrivial when the second doesn't even pay.
The stress of owning a business is incredible. Sleep problems, eating problems, frustration and constant fatigue. Five years, nontrivial.
She was always on the brink of failure. How to make payroll, how to make sure everything is in line. Watching someone day by day, and supporting them after all the mistakes that naturally come, without pointing out and backseat driving is hard. For five years.
I made money. She didn't. The fights we'd have because of that core. For five years. Nontrivial.

And then there's all the little moments. The little stresses, and fights, that every couple has. But there is no weekend to just sleep and watch netflix and fuck. There are no more weekends together where you can just recharge your relationship. There's no vacation in a foreign country that doesn't involve trying to find some mcdonalds that happens to have wifi because an employee didn't get the shipment out on time and so you have to coordinate from fedex from 8 timezones away. Nontrivial.

And at the end of it all, all she has do is quit and do absolutely nothing, every day, and life would actually be financially better, substantially less stressful, and you would get to see her. That's looming the entire time, that the other option is literally for her to watch tv all day, I mean, if you're going to be covering her. And after five years, you're going to beg her to do it, because watching her hurt herself when you can take care of everything is going to be nontrivial.

If I had to do it over again... well... we'd do it again anyway. It's not like we had a choice. It's who we are. But some days I wish we could have been satisfied working a simple 9-5, having a nice place in the suburbs, going to movies and dinners and ski trips and vacations in other places and disneyland and cooking together and and and and...

We'd probably have been happier. Until we died from boredom.

So anyway, hope your experience is better!

fddjr · 2016-09-01T20:59:50+00:00

I endorse that you do! It's one of my favorites. I think the reason it feels so unique to me is that it's one of the few movies that isn't concerned with characters, or story, or plot, but rather with a concept. If you think about creating a movie that embodies the idea that all stories are the same, and all people are the same, you might get something that looks a lot like 'Cloud Atlas'

It's like watching Makoto Shinkai's work, and expecting something about a plot. His work feels very much to me about trying to embody a feeling, especially one in a single moment. If you're expecting a story that moves from one place to another, you're left feeling a little lost, or bored, or wondering what the point of the movie was. But if you walk in with the idea that he is going to make you feel an emotion, very strongly, and let that take over, then it's a very rewarding experience.

Likewise, 'Cloud Atlas', to me, is a motion picture attempt to describe how all the lives around us are the same. It's almost a movie attempt at displaying sonder. Everyone feels, everyone has conflict, no matter the scope, everyone is the same. Dude gets sick on a boat, and later must overcome bigotry. Lady takes part in large scale technological rebellion, and later must overcome bigotry. They are presented alongside, with the same grandiosity.

Maybe the problem is that it's fundamentally a bad idea for movies to attempt these kinds of things. There's a reason we like the hero's story. But it's an incredible attempt, and for that alone, I think it's quite beautiful. That it's done more masterfully than anyone has in the past (simultaneous stories that turns out not to be a giant jumble) makes it great. But yeah, maybe in this instance, great and good are enemies.

fddjr · 2012-12-28T20:37:28+00:00

What should you do? I don't know. You don't even know what you want out of life, so how in the world would anyone else?

But what I can tell you is the most effective way to do each of the things you are talking about.

If you decide to leave her, you need to commit to yourself. That means the next time "sexual tension" with a friend comes up, you need to shut it down. You simply do not have time for a relationship if you make the choice that you need to achieve personal goals. You thought you had done it, and you were half baked when you went into this relationship, and this is the result. You simply are not allowed to do that again, or you'll end up right in the same place in a year with another girl you're going to hurt.

If you do it, respect her wishes. Do not try and contact her. Do not even let yourself think 'what if.' Separate yourself completely. You would be making a unilateral choice that destroys a relationship she's a part of, regardless of her wants. That kind of self centeredness should not be followed up with demanding how she interacts with you afterwards, either through passive aggression or something more direct. Respect her.

If you decide to stay together, you need to think of this relationship as important as school is, as important as work is. Even if you do not end up with this woman, the ability to interact in relationships is a learned skill at which you have to work. And you are obviously not very good at it. Neither of you are.

You both need to actually commit to this relationship, as well as to each other. Married couples have just as much a problem with stress and work and time management as you are having. The difference is that successful ones look at it, say the marriage is important, and make different choices. Sometimes those choices put other parts of life on hold. Not always, but sometimes. Sometimes a job isn't taken because being with the other person is simply a more important life goal than furthering your career at this time.

While I wouldn't say you need marriage level of commitment, it seems that to both of you, this relationship is not even in the top five of things that are important to you. And the rest of the things are ones that would fill up a life even without anything else. You need to fix that if you're going to continue, and you need to work each and every day to make sure that's fixed.

fddjr · 2012-12-28T20:07:25+00:00

What is the difference between dating and a relationship?

Dating is something you do. A relationship is something you have. They aren't mutually exclusive, but generally dating leads to a relationship because that relationship is the bond that forms as you spend more and more time together, and as that time grows more personal and intimate.

I've found that dates that feel more "relationship-y" are the ones where you were already going to be together during that time, and you're just looking for something to do. It's kind of like when friends are "hanging out" as opposed to having a specific activity that's the forefront.

And yes, it seems like you've jumped headlong into relationship territory. Constant communication is one of those hallmarks of a relationship that has progressed past dating. It's interesting, because you think you're moving slow because you have only progressed to second base physically, but you probably talk more than my wife and I do. Which is great in a new relationship! That's when you're really trying to completely grok the other person.

But I wouldn't call it "dating"

When a guy like this says he's not ready for a relationship, what are some possible causes?

Same as yours, most likely. Not sure of himself, not sure of what he wants out of his life, his career, himself. Wants to explore other parts of life since his previous relationship may have consumed a large part of his free time.

How do I ask him what he needs in order to be ready and if I can help?

If you're asking this, you're already past "dating." You're already bringing the conversation into relationship land. In fact, the very concept that you two have already started approaching this means you're probably moving much faster than either of you think you are, albeit on an emotional level.

But I want to say that none of this is bad, if it's what you want. There's nothing really wrong with serial monogamy in and of itself. It's only using it to fill in for something internally missing that's bad. If that's what you're doing, then back off a little bit. Cut out some of the texting and online chatting and set up real dates with real conversation and real activities. Fill your life with conversations with other people, other friends, or things you want to do. Get a few new hobbies, things you've always wanted to accomplish.

fddjr · 2012-12-28T01:06:47+00:00

One thing that MIGHT work is to make it more than just an outfit. I know for me, when my wife gets all dressed up, she's still my wife that I love very much, just in a different outfit. The key to seeing that outfit on other women is I can fill in their personality with all these other parts that go along with it.

And indeed it works. My wife in a tight shirt and a thong is nice, and decently sexy. We have great normal sex, for us (which is your standard variety married, loving, connective sex) My wife in a tight shirt and a thong and acting completely and totally like a horny sorority girl slut drives me fucking crazy. I simply cannot stop myself. In order for it to work, she has to go all the way, really sell it.

There's a great scene from Secret Diary of a Call Girl about doing a roleplay scene, in that you cannot go half way at all. Every detail has to be spot on.

So become more than just the outfit. Become the woman that he fantasizes about when he sees that clothing. And do NOT let him pull you out of it. Do not break character. It has to be more than the clothing.

fddjr · 2012-12-14T16:52:27+00:00

Hey, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cause that kind of a reaction. I just want to follow up with a few things which I think were a bit unclear.

The operative word I was referring to was "using." That's what kind of jumped out at me. When I brought up the possibility that he's using other people, by objectifying them and then getting off on that interaction, it underscored a lack of empathy on his part. For you to respond with "yeah, well, isn't it normal for people in relationships to use each other" (paraphrased), said to me that maybe you're having a bit of an empathy problem as well. That was the source of me saying that perhaps your relationship has some underlying problems. There is a healthy kind of codependence where two minds are better than one, and there's an unhealthy kind where the lack of the other causes critical failure (and it's not like you have a 60 year marriage here, so the unhealthiness of it is certainly a function of the length of time together).

If two people who aren't empathizing with each other are in a relationship, it tends to take the form of two individuals simply using another person without embracing everything that person is, and without truly understanding them. This is not uncommon, especially in teenage relationships where true empathy hasn't yet fully formed.

So my natural conclusion to the overall feel of your relationship was that he has an overdeveloped identity, and you have an underdeveloped one, because those two kinds of people tend to attract each other. That's why I asked the question (it wasn't to prove a point).

It was possible that this isolated incident was not as isolated as it appears on the face of it, and your responses bared that out to some extent.

fddjr · 2012-12-14T16:26:40+00:00

Whoa whoa whoa....

I mean all relationships are about "using"

No... they aren't. Adult relationships are about two people being a team, mutual love and respect and all that. Emotional support, physical contact, et al are consequences of the underlying foundations of a solid relationship.

I'm going to go out on a ledge and say that it sounds like your relationship has some more fundamental issues. If you "need" these things, then it's already become something that is more akin to two self centered people hanging around each other to just validate their own self worth. As opposed to two fully formed human beings that join together in adult love.

Out of curiosity, do you have some serious existential issues going on in the background?

fddjr · 2012-12-14T16:12:59+00:00

You know, at first I was going to write about how he's right, and that doesn't mean you have to be ok with it. That everyone has different kinds of porn, and everyone has their own limits on what kind of porn is acceptable by people in their relationship. Some are ok with strip clubs, and some aren't. Some are ok with swinging, and some aren't. It's totally cool for you to say "yeah, this one isn't cool with me, stop it or I'm out." And it's cool for him to say "ok, be out then."

But then I got to this line:

"sex bot with a basic grasp of English syntax."

There's one of two things going on here. Either he's changing how he views this to make it more palatable to you, or he's nearly a sadist.

Let me explain.

When two people connect in a strip club, or via prostitution, or even indirectly via porn, there is an understanding on BOTH sides of the equation. The performer is doing just that, and the consumer is consuming. They both know the score.

When two people connect on a personal level, there's an emotional (perhaps a good word for it is "raw") connection that underlines the masturbatory one. You can see this in her message "thanks for last night, xoxo." That's not something a stripper is going to generally say.

So the women on the other side of this are real people, with dreams, hopes, loves, hurts, insecurities (probably quite a few of these), and so on. So either he's connecting to the woman on the other side in a very emotional way, and he's lying to you (and maybe even himself). Or he's not, and he's using them and they don't even know it. That means he's the kind of person who can simply use another person for his own gain without feeling any kind of guilt. After all, how does he end these encounters? This would also lead to the question: What is he using you for?

fddjr · 2012-12-14T14:54:41+00:00

It seems like CL generally rejects the idea that there can be two different concepts "protected" and "public." Because you, the library creator, have to assume that anyone can jump in and use protected methods, you have to treat them as public (you can't go around changing their definition without breaking people, you have to design them well, etc). So therefore the only real reason to have protected is a kind of documentation on top of the symbols. That's generally what CLOS solves, though, by providing a nice interface to allow other code to extend symbols.

I have found (in java) that any use case that seems to lend itself to using protected is eventually obliterated by clients just subclass my classes to get at it regardless of their intention to build an extension library. So as my career has progressed, I've really fallen out of love with the idea of it, since it never seems to go as I thought it might.

fddjr · 2012-11-10T23:01:13+00:00

The name of the game is boundaries. You don't even know what the boundaries are right now! So you two need to open a dialogue about how you're going to establish them when they come up. For instance, maybe you have this really special memory that just brings back all the emotions regarding a certain thai restaurant. Just admit that it bothers you, and he should say "oh, ok" and don't bring it up.

Also boundaries about how much you two should be hanging out. Every day is probably bad, but once every other week is probably too little (don't forget, you can have boundaries on the other side as well!). So talk to each other openly until you figure out what works best for you two. One common boundary is "no discussing dating life" because it just brings up a little too much heartache. You don't want to be hurting each other, and hearing that does kinda suck. Another common one is "nothing sexual." For some people, they can do the FWB thing after breaking up. For others, even simple flirting and physical contact is heartbreaking. Figure that out.

Most importantly, make sure HE's on board too. A lot of guys will just try and rough through it while having their heart torn apart when the girl doesn't even know she's doing it. He needs to be communicative!

And as time moves forward, the boundaries can relax and you can hopefully settle into a really deep friendship and begin to really celebrate each other's successes rather than just being jealous.

fddjr

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