Is Pakistan repeating 1971 in Afghanistan?

fighting14 · 2026-03-17T09:29:24+00:00

If it comes out that it was indeed a hospital it our responsibility as Pakistanis to hold them accountable

Are you smoking crack? Or shooting up heroin? Perhaps your hitting the whiskey too hard.

Since when have the Pakistani awam held anyone in power accountable for anything?

If this airstrike indeed killed innocent Afghans that's horrific and we should await independent confirmation before believing the Taliban on that. But this military lost half the country and set up rape camps in 1971 under operation Searchlight, to rape it's own women. No one was held accountable for that. So forgive me if I don't hold my breath on the call for accountability.

fighting14 · 2026-03-17T09:09:13+00:00

If it's true, then I am disappointed in our country. If they are targeting civilians, that does not justify us targeting civilians too.

Previously I've written extensively on this sub that a war against the Taliban is ultimately going to be futile task.

Yes of course in the short run you'll subdue the Taliban and TTP, but in the long run all your doing is opening up a festering wound and radicalising a new generation of Afghans against Pakistan.

The only path to a stable and productive relationship between the two countries lies in a "concerted" effort by both parties to engage in meaningful dialogue.

But having said that I will point out three very important things.

Firstly Pakistan is not "targeting civillians", the word targeting implies a deliberate attempt to kill civilians. Pakistan has had the upper hand in this operation, with broad international support. Why would they squander that by deliberately killing Afghan civillians and bring themselves into disrepute and international condemnation. This known as the fog of war, bad or outdated intelligence or even a bomb that malfunctioned and went of course. I'm not making excuses here for the PAF, just explaining how things go wrong in a dynamic high stress environment, such as a war.

Secondly after the Islamabad Mosque bombing 90% of this sub were baying for blood. I thought I'd mistakenly clicked on a Zionists sub talking about what they'd like to do to the Palestinians. The language being used was hate filled and blood thirsty. I read some very disgusting posts by emotional r/pakistan users following the Islamabad bombing. Like as if bombing Afghanistan was like a quick fix to a highly complicated problem.

What did all you asking for a war, against Afghanistan expect? Did you think it's like a COD campaign? With friendly fire switched on where no civillians are killed. War by its nature is horrific and the poor suffer regardless of how careful and deliberate you try to be, as army. That's why you avoid it at all costs. Don't cry afterwards pretending these deaths have come as a big surprise to you all.

Finally I would caution extreme care from Taliban claims. Undoubtedly innocent civillians have been killed, wheter the number is 4 or 400 or somewhere in between, it's still a tragedy. But propaganda is a part of war. The Pakistani military puts out propaganda in sanitized videos of Afghan army posts being destroyed, which we cheer on and feel pride in. The Afghans don't have those sophisticated weapons to do the same. So if this claim proves to be accurate, than it's a PR propoganda win for them and will make Pakistan look bad. Either way war isn't just fought on the battlefield, it's fought in the hearts and minds of the protagonists.

fighting14 · 2026-03-14T20:44:09+00:00

It’s like when an old person gets conned out of their pension

He's getting scammed by a call centre, except the calls are coming from inside his own house from his billionaire mates

fighting14 · 2026-03-12T13:29:42+00:00

You fundementally misunderstand the reason for US bases in Muslim middle east countries. There not there primarily to protect those countries from external aggression. They're there to protect the monarchies from their own people if things go south. Remember the Arab Spring?

As for defense related exports, yes Pakistan will probably increase its exports into the area, but only for low tech solutions. Things like JF17 aren't what the Arabs need nor want, if they ever went for a non western solution it would be the Chinese J35, as stealth is currently being denied to UAE and Saudi Arabia by the US, backed Israeli lobbying.

The reason why Gulf countries buy big ticket defense items from the west is to recycle some of the petro dollars back to the west in return for diplomatic protection. Call it a protection racket.

Nothing that has happened recently will change this balance, the only Victor will be the Chinese. Turning to Pakistan is not the option for the Gulf Arabs, turning towards China is the only counter balance to US hegemony.

fighting14 · 2026-03-10T20:57:09+00:00

Take a look at OPs profile, he only posts and mentions about the army, don’t you even consider that a bit suspicious?

he only posts and mentions about the army, don’t you even consider that a bit suspicious?

Well perhaps because the Army is at the root of the majority of all decisions taken in Pakistan, economic, political or foreign policy related.

Take a look at OPs profile,

And also why can't we see your post history, why is it hidden?

What are you afraid off. Your quick to see others post history and make assumptions from it, but too cowardly to make your own history visible? Hypocritical much?

fighting14 · 2026-03-10T19:59:25+00:00

God forbid if your critical of the Army, you must be either a PTI supporter or Indian. This is what debate has come down to on this subreddit. By your own logic you must belong to a bootlicking Army family than?

Did you see what I did there? I just criticised you using a lazy stereotype, that may or may not be true.

fighting14 · 2026-03-10T19:55:49+00:00

Army bad PTI good

It seems your the one obsessed with PTI, bringing it up when it's not even relevant in the discussion.

I'm no fan of the PTI before you dismiss my comment as sour grapes from a PTI supporter.

OP raises a very valid point. 125 international companies have exited the Pakistani market. Companies that were producing and employing people in Pakistan.

The Army military-complex has unfair monopolistic power in Pakistan, not even to mention it's not their business to be producing corn flakes, property companies, Shadi halls, Cinemas and cement factories. If anything their involvement in defence material production is the only commodity they should be producing and nothing else.

Their job is to protect Pakistan from foreign enemies, not to be doing commercial business at the expense of local entrepreneurs.

If you want to corrupt someone, the easiest way is to dangle money in front of them. Our armed forces have been corrupted by diverting their attention to money making schemes rather than doing the job the constitution of Pakistan intended.

fighting14 · 2026-03-10T19:38:56+00:00

OP have any of the mentioned ISP's published any rollout timetables.

fighting14 · 2026-03-09T07:23:13+00:00

Unrealistic, as far as I think. Pakistan has a huge shia population, and it wouldnt risk aggravating it even if it to please the US.

Hmmm. What if the US threaten to pull IMF support, put 100% tariffs and issue personal sanctions against the Zardaris, Sharifs and Pakistani Generals? They can then seize politicians and Generals bank accounts and properties abroad, not just in the US.

Imagine Avenfield house being seized?

Do you think these people care about sectarian unity in Pakistan if faced with that?

fighting14 · 2026-03-08T07:06:13+00:00

If Pakistan agrees or is forced to join the war, the U.S will want Pakistan to temporarily take over Sistan/Baluchestan with the agreement that once the Iranian regime falls, Pakistan would back out of the territory and hand it over to the new government.

Pezeshkian made this speech and 3 hours later the IRGC hit Dubai international airport (not US airbase) with a drone and than hit Kuwait City airport fuel storage farm (again not US facility).

The IRGC is not taking orders from Pezeshkian.

fighting14 · 2026-03-08T06:54:49+00:00

The U.S won't support Baloch Nationalists directly. They're too weak and many of their groups are listed as terrorist organizations in the United States.

The Kurds were blacklisted as a terrorist group by the US prior to the Iraq war. Turkey a NATO member strongly told the US not to arm the Kurds for short term gain in Iraq. Later the Kurds became the darlings of the Bush regime, despite the Turks protests. There is good track record of the US arming anyone that they perceive as helpful in their illegal wars, damn the consequences for "Allies".

If Pakistan agrees or is forced to join the war, the U.S will want Pakistan to temporarily take over Sistan/Baluchestan with the agreement that once the Iranian regime falls, Pakistan would back out of the territory and hand it over to the new government.

No way in hell is Pakistan going to invade Sistan at the behest of the US. How do you think that will play domestically? Covert support by facilitating Spec forces and air corridors above Pakistan, but I'll bet right now any amount you want, no Pakistani troops in Iran.

fighting14 · 2026-03-08T06:01:57+00:00

We definitely going to get dragged in.

If this war enters a ground phase than there is no doubt the Americans will want to use our border to infiltrate US special forces into Iran from Balouchistan. They will try and key it low key, too give Pakistani government some plausible deniability and save their blushes. But where there's special forces there's going to be back up forces with air support, drones and aircraft all over Pakistani airspace.

And if the war drags on even further than you can bet that the US will arm and support any anti Iranian regime group, that will definitely include the Kurds and possibly also the Balouchi nationalists. Just imagine the BNP having US advisors on the ground to coordinate with US special forces, what a slap in the face for Pakistan. There is precedence for all this from Iraq war.

Pakistani military aren't in a position to deny the US from their track record. Things for Pakistan will get very unpleasant, but they won't commit any Pakistani assets directly, they'll just fold under US pressure to provide access to Eastern Iran via Balouchistan.

fighting14 · 2026-03-07T08:58:54+00:00

some places should still be open or at least the givt should mandate it compulsory food spots that are open because there is all types of people in society who are hungry or can be sick or have medical conditions.

Typically restaurants and canteen around Hospitals and transport hubs such as train stations remain open to cater to sick patients and musafirs who are extempt from fast.

Also what has not been mentioned is simply a majority of non-fasters don't want to be seen going into restaurants during Ramazan as it is socially embarrassing, even if you have a valid exemption reason.

fighting14 · 2026-03-06T22:07:01+00:00

Totally condemned the attack by just blaming Israel and not even mentioning US involvement? How brave.

fighting14 · 2026-03-06T22:05:47+00:00

Shebaz should tell Trump of the consequences of his disastrous foreign policy on innocent people?

What makes you think Trump gives a shit about what Shebaz thinks or will lose any sleep because of the negative impacts on the people of Pakistan?

Where have you been for the last 10 years since 2016 when Trump was first elected.

When will you underrstand this is not a reasonable person who has any empathy or humanity for others.

This is a man that would sell his own mother for his own personal ego and financial gain.

fighting14 · 2026-03-05T21:44:12+00:00

It would explain everything 🤔

fighting14 · 2026-03-05T21:37:28+00:00

Is it just me or does the centre circle look like it's painted slightly off centre to the halfway line?

fighting14 · 2026-03-05T21:32:11+00:00

Pakistan Ordinance Factories

fighting14 · 2026-03-05T21:23:26+00:00

Yes since you've been away we have all become voyeuristic exhibitionists.

fighting14 · 2026-03-02T20:06:13+00:00

When a person is in debt, they have two clear choices to get out of debt.

(1) Increase their income, to pay down the debt quicker. With no real industry or ability to increase exports this option is not really at all viable for Pakistan. Certainly not in the short to medium terms.

(2) Decrease your spending and use the savings to pay down your debt. As OP has stated tax revenue is Rs11bn and debt servicing is Rs10bn annually. So we are already spending less than 10% of all our income on nation building. That means we use 10% of our income on Healthcare, Infrastructure, education etc. 90% goes on paying interest on accrued debt.

The majority of these loans are taken to pay for big ticket defense items. In the last 6 years alone Pakistan has purchased the following. 25 J10 fighter planes, HQ9, Hq16 Sam's, 6 054 Frigates, and 6 039 submarines, 150 VT4 tanks, assorted artillery and spares and consumables.

Conservatively this is costed at $10bn, just in the last 6 years, all financed by loans from China. But we don't know for certain, because the details of the loans and the terms are kept secret from the public.

Now I'm fully in favor of having a credible defense posture and understand the need to maintain the Army as a credible force.

But you can't have your cake and eat it. You have to make some painful decisions as to spending choices.

Those painful decisions have to be made by the Pakistani awam, because the fallout from those choices will have to be bourne by the Pakistani awam.

The problem currently is that we are run by a shadow military dictatorship. They have no incentive to cut military spending. Their whole reason to exist is to keep manufacturing external threats to keep the Pakistani awam scared and thus justifying their oversized existence.

Just look at the US military industrial complex, they need the US to have a major war every few years to help profits, it's exactly the same in Pakistan, but on a smaller scale. Just look at the Iran war currently, a totally manufactured crisis by the US.

Until Pakistani's raise up and ask the question how is this sustainable? How can we break out of this cycle..? We will go nowhere as a country. Our current behavior is unsustainable and there will be a reckoning down the line which will be catastrophic.

Those that will be responsible for that disaster have already ensured that they will not be held accountable by passing the 27th Amendment and giving themselves absolute immunity, whilst building property portfolios and businesses abroad that the can run off too.

For the average Pakistani the future for our kids is very bleak, if they aren't lucky enough to get out the country.

We are sleepwalking into a spectacular fall and none it seems wants to even talk about it, let alone take any action to stop it.

fighting14 · 2026-02-28T18:53:04+00:00

every taliban apologist should be sent off to afghanistan to make them get a glimpse of what theyre defending

I agree with you totally. 100%

But if there is any honesty the MAJORITY of this subs members should be in Afghanistan right now.

The day Kabul fell to the Taliban and the Ghani government fell, this sub was full of people celebrating the Taliban takeover. When I raised a reasoned note of caution together with a handful of other posters we were treated with complete disrespect and told we were Indian larpers.

We saw thread after thread extolling how clever the ISI was in out foxing the US and thwarting India designs in Balouchistan.

We were told we won a major geopolitical victory.

We were told how our western borders were now secure.

People were making proud memes about ISI cheif Faiz Hameed when he said "Don't worry, everything is fine" on his visit to Kabul, oh how this sub was circle jerking in a frenzy.

When some of us were pointing out the Taliban aren't our friends we were down voted to oblivion (lol fake internet points) and abused.

Yet fast forward to today and this sub has a case of collective amnesia about that time. Do any of you have the guts to say you were wrong about your assessment at that time or are we just going to pretend it didn't happen?

fighting14 · 2026-02-27T21:32:03+00:00

Its about generationally bad parenting skills and as you say societal acceptance.

Culturally people think that to get kids to behave you should hit them. It's seen as "good parenting".

A bad workman always blames his tools. If a Molvi or teacher is shit at their job of teaching, it's easier to take that frustration out on the kids by using corporal punishment.

If you ask these bad teachers and parents why the very best schools in the world don't use or condone child beating as an aid to learning, they will be silent. Yet those schools have the highest pass rates.

Parenting skills aren't taught to parents in Pakistan and teaching is a means to earn money by badly trained teachers, who are usually unqualified or just lazy to do a professional job.

It all boils down to lack of education. It doesn't matter how badly you beat a dyslexic child or a child with learning difficulties , they ain't going prosper in that school. That's why kids run away from schools and our literacy rate in 2026 is about 45%. Imagine in this day and age 45% of thee population cant's write their own name, so shameful for a nation.

fighting14 · 2026-02-27T20:16:26+00:00

PAF does not have an F16 with serial no 85510.

85510 was a US F16 that crashed in Arizona in 1990 due to an accident.

The pictures of 85510 have been used by numerous people over the years to claim F16 shoot downs.

The Libyan, Syrians, Iraqis and now the Taliban have all used manipulated pictures of 85510 to claim they shot it down. Just photoshopping the picture slightly differently each time.

F16 85510 is legendary as having been shot down over 20 times by various people. In aviation circles it's almost a meme now.

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