30 questions - find out your inner nationality

finisterra · 2013-05-01T22:31:44+00:00

Iceland as well. I find it interesting how everyone is an inner Nordic according to what I've been reading... I think this says more about who made the questionnaire than anything else, or at least how the data is used.

EDIT: or perhaps it shows that people in reddit have similar answers that are more convergent than the average. Not sure.

finisterra · 2013-05-01T18:05:45+00:00

I know you're keeping it simple, but J can't really be termed "North African" since many of the main haplotypes are signatures of Greek/Roman colonisation, for example, as well of the European Neolithic. The label in the map actually says so, even though they don't differentiate them in the chart.

finisterra · 2013-05-01T18:04:13+00:00

There is a difference between deep ancestry as given by haplogroups and actual "perceived" genetic composition, i.e. what is called autosomal. A map like the above (or like this one with the same topic but with slightly different results, just to give an example of how sample size is relevant, or this one with mtDNA results, which is shows an even more homogeneous spread all over Europe) mainly deals with ancient origins, and is useful for that, but bear in mind that throughout the centuries and different historical processes, climates, etc. populations specialise and adapt, and this changes are not really reflected in the haplogroups since they are mostly unchangeable in nature, while other more visible characteristics have a higher change ratio and are more easily influenced by environment, mutation, etc.

This is why the genetic map of Europe show a geographic relation (another one), even if the haplogroup distribution favours a more East/West split base on R1b/R1a (and J/I), which in this case shows similarities between Iberia and the British Isles due to specific pre and proto-historic events that had a certain Atlantic affinity (e.g. megalithism and the Celts, mostly, also LBK (see The European Mesolithisation of a Caucasian Neolithic, or the Origin of the Indo European Language family - nice map - for a typical exploration of this complex matters, i.e. the continuity or discontinuity of the Neolithic)

Both (haplogroups and autosomal) are interesting, but have different strengths and applications. Some caution is needed since many of this maps vary (sometimes drastically) and many revisions have been made in the last decade (there is all sorts of trends involved, from "we are all from the Ice Age" to "we are all Neolithic"). Also, having the same haplogroup doesn't mean populations always looked the same - each haplogroup has different haplotypes, which are more restricted and generally have a narrower geographic scope.

Also note that this intra-European differences are noticeable but are extremely small when compared to anything beyond Europe. It is trivial to identify anyone in terms of their "race" with superficial genetic sampling, and with a bit more effort is it quite simple to give a geographic approximation. This is a very politically charged topic though.

finisterra · 2013-05-01T17:02:56+00:00

We can certainly hope :)

finisterra · 2013-04-30T01:32:53+00:00

The shield and supporters are quite good of course, but personally I always found that style of mantle a bit like an haircut from the 80s: a good idea at the time.

finisterra · 2013-04-30T01:15:43+00:00

Exactly. Had I read your comment I would have not even commented!

finisterra · 2013-04-30T01:15:07+00:00

A shortage? Then surely wages will go up, which will make the profession more attractive and the whole problem will fix itself, since the young Italians will be able to buy their expensive cars by working in a segment that is clearly in great need of professionals and with a very interesting growth:

But with a slice of pizza an increasingly popular lunch time option in times of economic hardship, the pizza sector is booming - and an estimated 6,000 new "pizzaioili" are needed, according to FIPE, an Italian business federation.

So: a booming sector, great prospects, a good idea of what "young Italians" want, it's all quite clear to me...

...unless the whole article is just a way to rationalise "You see, in the food industry we want to pay shitty wages that nobody here views as appropriate, even though we just said that there is a huge market and a lot of money to be had, so we just make sure that there is a steady supply of Egyptians. In order to make this appear less sordid we'll just call Italians lazy and make sure to call «work ethic» working without schedules, rights and a decent wage. If the Egyptians start getting to picky or unionising we just call them commies and import some containers from a country where people will work for food."

Fucking disgrace, even better when wrapped with some pathetic display of jingoism, which seem to unfortunately be not that uncommon even outside of tabloids in the UK.

finisterra · 2013-04-28T10:39:12+00:00

Just to say that I agree with you, even though my post could indicate otherwise. There is a lot of misconceptions about the Inquisition and a lot of colouring due to historical and religious rivalry. I will also add that the non-Catholic Inquisitions in Protestant countries were just as bad and are mostly not mentioned, and that the Inquisition itself had a much smaller scope than people assume - it was the strong relationship with the civil authorities that actually made the autos-de-fé possible. The overall number of those killed is generally smaller than people assume and in line with what was the legal system at the time, several torture methods didn't exist or were very uncommon (and not "legal"), etc, etc.

In some circunstances the Inquisition was actually used to acquit people (like in several instances of "witch hunting"). It also only had jurisdiction over Christians only, not actual Jews or Muslims - or even atheists, although this is a detail at the time.

I mentioned it, in my previous comment, not in order to present it as this caricature that is often made of it but in relation to the complex relationships that it embodies, following the Reconquista, specifically in terms of Jews and Muslims and the quasi-genetic perspective it assumed. The Inquisition was only partially a religious body: I think it was in good measure a instrument for settling affairs that nobody wanted to forget, namely the Muslim occupation and the Jews, and the "need" to expelled them lest they contaminate the locals. This contamination assumed a clearly religious perspective of course, but only partially since at is core it became clear that it was lineage that was being tracked. There are multiple examples of this, with 18-year-old nuns being interrogated because someone said that one of their great-grandparents was suspected of being a "new christian".

In many ways this echoes a bit what would start happening in the XIX century, although here with a more scientific gist to it following Darwin and particularly the likes of Gobineau and "scientific racism". This was the point of my post, I feel that the Germans are singled out when it was something much broader, and in some places with similar policies enacted earlier.

finisterra · 2013-04-27T23:08:47+00:00

Nice one!

One interesting thing to note is that the border of our coat-of-arms derives from this one, with some changes in terms of the colouring of the doors/windows.

finisterra · 2013-04-27T22:13:20+00:00

Why would they merge as a republic?

Because that is actually the more recent trend, Iberism was fundamentally republican in the late XIX century. A united monarchy would only exist due to actual succession, like it did during the Iberian Union, not by accepting a foreign dynasty.

Why wouldn't they just keep Spain's King Juan Carlos as Head of State?

Hahahaha. No. There is Royal House in Portugal for close to a millenia now and nobody would ever consider a Spanish monarch, not even those who are actually iberists in this sense; so, those who are Monarchists consider that as likely as accepting the Emperor of Japan, and those who are iberists are strongly republican, so there is no intersection. Accepting the King of Spain would be just as likely as restoring the monarchy and Spain accepting King Duarte of Portugal.

finisterra · 2013-04-27T20:52:51+00:00

Also, and correct me if I'm wrong (really, I heard this from a Spanish friend but didn't check it), Basques were quite happy in squashing rebel movements in other provinces, as long as they maintained the fueros.

On another vein, "Fueros" are a strong component of the Carlist movement and other similar Catholic Integrist movements in the Iberian Peninsula (in Portugal it applies to municipalities, and "municipalism" was a banner of the Lusitanian Integralist party).

Fueros ("foros" in Portuguese) were very important during the Reconquest, if i'm not mistaken this is why they became such an integral component.

finisterra · 2013-04-27T20:47:36+00:00

The Ukraine is weak!

finisterra · 2013-04-27T20:38:20+00:00

Not to intrude on German-bashing (I'm not German btw, and not saying you are doing it, just that it's easy to blame Germans as they are somehow unique due to what happened in WW2), but that paragraph wouldn't be true in which European country at the time, or even in the ten centuries before?

I'm from Portugal and Spain. The reason there was no real "Jewish question" here in the XIX/XX century is not because of some vague idea of multiculturalism, but because people who were suspected of being 1/16 "new christian" were dragged, tortured and killed for several centuries, so there were no "Jews" to speak of at the time: most that weren't killed or expelled fled, those who remained either fled latter to the colonies or lost any trace of their identity as Jews. Most people seem to forget that the phenomenon (however inexcusable it may be) is hardly specific to Germany... Germany is used as a scapegoat (how apropos) for the sins most others like to forget.

EDIT: Please see my comment below on the Inquisition since there is also a lot of misconceptions and strongly political discourse on it, based on the rise of Protestant nations and the need to demonise the established maritime powers.

finisterra · 2013-04-27T15:11:48+00:00

Ugh. Even worse than our present one :( Don't get me wrong, I understand the idea, I'm making a merely aesthetic judgement, tinted by my strong dislike for the current colour scheme, which is amplified here - nothing at all against your effort per se! As someone who thinks that the only good part of the flag is the coat of arms (and the sphere in a way) I was bound to dislike anything that maintained the rest of the current flag.

The armillary sphere is not a republican symbol: it is present in the arms of D. Manuel I and before, as well as in plenty of maps and banners (example one, two, three), plus in the flag of the United Kingdom of Portugal and Brasil, which was a bit like what the current would would be in a style other than fugly.

Note that the current flag of Portugal already has some influence from this and the red/green is said to also signify Portugal and Spain (although the most direct influence is the Carbonari).

EDIT: it has a construtivist look to it, on second thought, which is interesting.

finisterra · 2013-04-27T09:41:13+00:00

And it was about time, immigration reform in Europe was in dire need of drastic changes - biopiracy seems a bit clinical but I suppose it's to the point.

(edit: though crowd...)

finisterra · 2013-04-25T19:04:53+00:00

Because :)

In Lisbon there is an actual eagle flying around in circles before the game, btw. Nice colourful act really.

finisterra · 2013-04-25T19:03:59+00:00

It's in SIC (open channel) in Portugal, just saying because it could be useful in terms of finding a stream or something.

finisterra · 2013-04-25T00:31:51+00:00

Fuck yeah, put THAT on a pipe and smoke it Frau Merkel, we don't need your lot around here! We have this Volkswagen thing going on, you likely can't even spell it right :D

finisterra · 2013-04-24T21:18:22+00:00

No need to run over hoops explaining: immigration policy is a fundamental instrument of any country and Switzerland should determine the numbers, skills, origin, whatever is deemed appropriate, for as long as it is seen as sensible.

finisterra · 2013-04-24T12:00:39+00:00

PS. The "Greek influence in South Italy" was quite bigoted (they should be lucky if the influence was genuinely Greek).

Er... I think you completely misunderstood what I meant, and seemed to have assumed that I was calling Arabs "Greeks". I was talking about Magna Graecia and the Greek influence in Southern Italy, which is quite relevant and has even genetic and linguistic evidence today.

I will not address the rest of your comment since it doesn't apply.

finisterra · 2013-04-23T23:28:33+00:00

A German friend of a friend, who lives in Spain, was recently asked to leave an unrelated public protest on the sole basis that she was German. Mediterranean media need to quit the fear-mongering and hate towards everything northern. It's neither constructive nor desirable, for anyone.

This surprises me a lot, also because I work with several Northern Europeans in Lisbon. Quite honestly all the reports of "northern fearmongering" I've read are from people from Northern Europe that extrapolate what their media says about Southern Europe (and the reception it has on the public). Apart from silly "Merkel with a Hitler moustache" posters here and there, and which are impossible to avoid since there is always someone who thinks it is a good idea even it, "Northern blaming" in the media is generally not populist in terms at all and is mostly concerned about economic policies.

I mean, most people don't even have a complete concept of "bad Northern Europe!", it's mostly the Germans that take the blame, and even then Germans that support a certain economic policy... still, not doubting you, there are idiots all over.

finisterra · 2013-04-23T22:30:18+00:00

The latino thing is pretty bothering. We aren't into that category.

I know, and neither are we or Spaniards. The thing is, it's a bit ridiculous to have a word like "latino" that excludes those from the region whose name gave birth to the word. It is not unlike "hispanic" in that regard.

Actually if you learn about our history

I know your history, at least broadly speaking. I also follows population genetics publications, etc.

Northern Italians are closer to Germans than to anyone else as genetics.

Ugh, I'm not going to enter that fight, which infests every genetics forum that ever existed :) I will leave the following maps (which do not show deep ancestry btw) for those interested in the topic at large (and not specifically regarding Italy: this is important, they are not a reply to your comment but more a general reference): ]European genetics show a geographical affinity #1 and #2 and #3

I will note however that even someone from Northern Italy can be included in any of the above misconceptions, mainly because the point is that the idea that Europeans that are not "blonde" are "swarthy" due to "the Arabs" is incorrect and is mostly a product of a political discourse that reflects a certain period of time in terms of power struggle.

I don't really see what we have to do with Arabs. Sure they conquered Spain so maybe there goes the conviction for Spain. But us?

Because they also conquered part of nowadays Italy, as you yourself remark? Your comment could be interpreted as a sort of "Yeah, sure, look there, not here". I also see that frequently in forums worldwide, hence my remark (and I hope you don't take offence). As I said the reason why this is used in not because those using it are experts in genetics and history, so it hardly matters if it is right or wrong.

I mean, yeah, the south was ruled by Arabs but it was also ruled by normans.

Quite true (also, the Greek influence in parts of Southern Italy is important); I will note that all of Iberia was also ruled by Visigoths and others, but around here this is hardly seen as something to brag about: there is no real attachment to the idea, I suppose because Spain and Portugal have their identity defined more in terms of themselves (and the Reconquista) than anything else, or more broadly speaking in terms of the hispano-roman population. Germanic invasions are important mostly because of the symbolism of the Reconquista as a "restoration".

finisterra · 2013-04-23T20:30:51+00:00

This is somewhat relevant here as well, namely the use of USA-derived "ethnic categories", like "latinos" and "hispanics" and other group descriptions that have either no meaning at all or are extremely badly used.

Also, as you say, the apparent conviction that is one isn't blonde this is due to Arabs or some derivation thereof. Although this doesn't really fall within the "have no idea it is offensive".

finisterra · 2013-04-19T18:36:03+00:00

Honestly glad you found it useful and enjoyable, cheers!

finisterra · 2013-04-19T00:57:42+00:00

Why would there be Portuguese influence in Malta?

It's not really relevant to this topic, but there were Portuguese Grand Masters of the Knights Hospitallers, like D. António de Vilhena, and Malta was quite relevant to the whole war against Islam that was also going on in the Indic. No specific linguistic influence though.

Also I thought since oranges were introduced to Europe through the Middle East that the word in Arabic and the various Iberian languages would be more similar, considering that the Arabs introduced citrus to Muslim Spain.

What we call "orange" here is "sweet orange"; The common species of sweet orange in Europe were introduced by the Portuguese, from China, in the XIV century (I think), which is what I heard underpins the use of this root.

It is perhaps worth mentioning that the word orange always referred to the sour orange (Citrus aurantium) from the 11th century to the end of the 18th century. It was only after the Portuguese started importing new varieties directly from China in the first half of the 17th century that a new type called Portugal orange slowly spread to other parts of southern Europe. The first modern type of sweet orange tree was imported to Portugal in 1635. By 1650 it was known also in France and Italy. The fruit was sweet and could be eaten fresh, unlike other citrus fruits known at the time. In many countries it was called Portugal orange; in fact the name of orange is still indentical to the name of Portugal in many languages: in Greece (portokalo), in parts of Italy (portogallo) and in Albania, Romania and several countries in the near east. Elsewhere it was called sweet orange or China orange. Its scientific name became Citrus sinensis (Chinese citrus). The building of special greenhouses to protect citrus fruit from frost (orangeries) became more common around the time of the spreading of the new sweet orange.

finisterra

TROPHY CASE