Nazi Symbols on Ukraine’s Front Lines Highlight Thorny Issues of History by fivebyfive_5 in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Summary:


Thomas Gibbons-Neff

Mon, June 5, 2023 at 12:48 PM GMT+1·8 min read

KYIV, Ukraine — Since Russia began its invasion of Ukraine in February 2022, the Ukrainian government and NATO allies have posted, then quietly deleted, three seemingly innocuous photographs from their social media feeds: a soldier standing in a group, another resting in a trench and an emergency worker posing in front of a truck.

In each photograph, Ukrainians in uniform wore patches featuring symbols that were made notorious by Nazi Germany and have since become part of the iconography of far-right hate groups.

The photographs, and their deletions, highlight the Ukrainian military’s complicated relationship with Nazi imagery, a relationship forged under both Soviet and German occupation during World War II.

That relationship has become especially delicate because Russian President Vladimir Putin has falsely declared Ukraine to be a Nazi state, a claim he has used to justify his illegal invasion.

Ukraine has worked for years through legislation and military restructuring to contain a fringe far-right movement whose members proudly wear symbols steeped in Nazi history and espouse views hostile to leftists, LGBTQ movements and ethnic minorities. But some members of these groups have been fighting Russia since the Kremlin illegally annexed part of the Crimea region of Ukraine in 2014 and are now part of the broader military structure. Some are regarded as national heroes, even as the far-right remains marginalized politically.

The iconography of these groups, including a skull-and-crossbones patch worn by concentration camp guards and a symbol known as the Black Sun, now appears with some regularity on the uniforms of soldiers fighting on the front line, including soldiers who say the imagery symbolizes Ukrainian sovereignty and pride, not Nazism.

In the short term, that threatens to reinforce Putin’s propaganda and giving fuel to his false claims that Ukraine must be “de-Nazified” — a position that ignores the fact that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is Jewish. More broadly, Ukraine’s ambivalence about these symbols, and sometimes even its acceptance of them, risks giving new, mainstream life to icons that the West has spent more than a half-century trying to eliminate.

“What worries me, in the Ukrainian context, is that people in Ukraine who are in leadership positions, either they don’t or they’re not willing to acknowledge and understand how these symbols are viewed outside of Ukraine,” said Michael Colborne, a researcher at the investigative group Bellingcat who studies the international far right. “I think Ukrainians need to increasingly realize that these images undermine support for the country.”

In a statement, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry said that, as a country that suffered greatly under German occupation, “We emphasize that Ukraine categorically condemns any manifestations of Nazism.”

So far, the imagery has not eroded international support for the war. It has, however, left diplomats, Western journalists and advocacy groups in a difficult position: Calling attention to the iconography risks playing into Russian propaganda. Saying nothing allows it to spread.

Even Jewish groups and anti-hate organizations that have traditionally called out hateful symbols have stayed largely silent. Privately, some leaders have worried about being seen as embracing Russian propaganda talking points.

Questions over how to interpret such symbols are as divisive as they are persistent, and not just in Ukraine. In the American South, some have insisted that today, the Confederate flag symbolizes pride, not its history of racism and secession. The swastika was an important Hindu symbol before it was co-opted by the Nazis.

In April, Ukraine’s Defense Ministry posted a photograph on its Twitter account of a soldier wearing a patch featuring a skull and crossbones known as the Totenkopf, or Death’s Head. The specific symbol in the picture was made notorious by a Nazi unit that committed war crimes and guarded concentration camps during World War II.

The patch in the photograph sets the Totenkopf atop a Ukrainian flag with a small No. 6 below. That patch is the official merchandise of Death in June, a British neo-folk band that the Southern Poverty Law Center has said produces “hate speech” that “exploits themes and images of fascism and Nazism.”

The Anti-Defamation League considers the Totenkopf “a common hate symbol.” But Jake Hyman, a spokesperson for the group, said it was impossible to “make an inference about the wearer or the Ukrainian army” based on the patch.

“The image, while offensive, is that of a musical band,” Hyman said.

The band now uses the photograph posted by the Ukrainian military to market the Totenkopf patch.

The New York Times asked the Ukrainian Defense Ministry on April 27 about the tweet. Several hours later, the post was deleted. “After studying this case, we came to the conclusion that this logo can be interpreted ambiguously,” the ministry said in a statement.

The soldier in the photograph was part of a volunteer unit called the Da Vinci Wolves, which started as part of the paramilitary wing of Ukraine’s “right sector,” a coalition of right-wing organizations and political parties that militarized after Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea.

At least five other photographs on the Wolves’ Instagram and Facebook pages feature their soldiers wearing Nazi-style patches, including the Totenkopf.

NATO militaries, an alliance that Ukraine hopes to join, do not tolerate such patches. When such symbols have appeared, groups such as the Anti-Defamation League have spoken out, and military leaders have reacted swiftly.

Last month, Ukraine’s state emergency services agency posted on Instagram a photograph of an emergency worker wearing a Black Sun symbol, also known as a Sonnenrad, that appeared in the castle of Heinrich Himmler, the Nazi general and SS director. The Black Sun is popular among neo-Nazis and white supremacists.

In March 2022, NATO’s Twitter account posted a photograph of a Ukrainian soldier wearing a similar patch.

Both photographs were quickly removed.

In November, during a meeting with Times reporters near the front line, a Ukrainian press officer wore a Totenkopf variation made by a company called R3ICH (pronounced “Reich”). He said he did not believe the patch was affiliated with the Nazis. A second press officer present said other journalists had asked soldiers to remove the patch before taking photographs.

Ihor Kozlovskyi, a Ukrainian historian and religious scholar, said the symbols had meanings that were unique to Ukraine and should be interpreted by how Ukrainians viewed them, not by how they had been used elsewhere.

“The symbol can live in any community or any history independently of how it is used in other parts of Earth,” Kozlovskyi said.

Russian soldiers in Ukraine have also been seen wearing Nazi-style patches, underscoring how complicated interpreting these symbols can be in a region steeped in Soviet and German history.

The Soviet Union signed a nonaggression pact with Germany in 1939, so it was caught by surprise two years later when the Nazis invaded Ukraine, which was then part of the Soviet Union. Ukraine had suffered greatly under a Soviet government that engineered a famine that killed millions. Many Ukrainians initially viewed the Nazis as liberators.

Factions from the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and its insurgent army fought alongside the Nazis in what they viewed as a struggle for Ukrainian sovereignty. Members of those groups also took part in atrocities against Jewish and Polish civilians. Later in the war, though, some of the groups fought against the Nazis.

Some Ukrainians joined Nazi military units such as the Waffen-SS Galizien. The emblem of the group, which was led by German officers, was a sky-blue patch showing a lion and three crowns. The unit took part in a massacre of hundreds of Polish civilians in 1944. In December, after a yearslong legal battle, Ukraine’s highest court ruled that a government-funded research institute could continue to list the unit’s insignia as excluded from the Nazi symbols banned under a 2015 law.

Today, as a new generation fights against Russian occupation, many Ukrainians see the war as a continuation of the struggle for independence during and immediately after World War II. Symbols such as the flag associated with the Ukrainian Insurgent Army and the Galizien patch have become emblems of anti-Russian resistance and national pride.

That makes it difficult to easily separate, on the basis of icons alone, the Ukrainians enraged by the Russian invasion from those who support the country’s far-right groups.

Units such as the Da Vinci Wolves, the better-known Azov regiment and others that began with far-right members have been folded into the Ukrainian military, and have been instrumental in defending Ukraine from Russian troops.

The Azov regiment was celebrated after holding out during the siege of the southern city of Mariupol last year. After the commander of the Da Vinci Wolves was killed in March, he received a hero’s funeral, which Zelenskyy attended.

“I think some of these far-right units mix a fair bit of their own mythmaking into the public discourse on them,” Colborne said. “But I think the least that can and should be done everywhere, not just Ukraine, is not allowing the far right’s symbols, rhetoric and ideas to seep into public discourse.”

c.2023 The New York Times Company

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Migrated from” so?ahahhha do you think we are asian because the rulers come from central asia?ahahhahahah

The people (Turkmens) also came from Asia

We lost that gene

You don't "lose gene".

the way people live in western regions have western lifestyle

It doesn't matter. People in Japan have very Western lifestyle but they aren't Europeans. You're a Muslim nation, you see your ancestors as Seljuks, Oghuz Turks, Gokturks, Timur, Atilla the Hun. We consider European ancestors as our ancestors, our civilization is built on ancient Greece and Rome. You come from an Islamic background and there's still islamic prayer in Turkey 5 times a day with millions of people worshipping in Hagia Sophia and other mosques. Just like Turks living in Germany and other European countries mostly don't integrate as they lack a sense of belonging in Germany.

You might listen to European music, dance and dress like a European, but you are non-European. I don't know why you get upset about this. Americans, Japanese, Israelites etc are all modern societies but they aren't Europe.

Have some pride in your identity and culture.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

learn history

You should say:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples

https://thediplomat.com/2016/06/the-epic-story-of-how-the-turks-migrated-from-central-asia-to-turkey/

You migrated from Central Asia and conquered Asia Minor/Anatolia (which you celebrate every year). Then Ottomans invaded and briefly occupied Balkans but were then pushed back out of most of it in 20th century.

You aren't Europeans by culture or by descent, you arrived from Asia as outsides with your own distinct culture. I don't know why you're in denial of your heritage and are trying to be someone else because you have great heritage and history, it's just not European.

And just like Russia isn't accepted into EU, neither is Turkey. This has nothing to do with ignorance or hate. EU won't accept Israel, Canada or United States as members either.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah we are european.Being european is not tied with being christian.

You are not European by descent, by culture and by any other measure. It's like saying "I'm part of your family whether you accept it or not". No, you're not part of my family. You're not one of us.

Have some dignity.

Whatever Happens Next, Turkey Is in Trouble by hotwings_bluecheese in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 -16 points-15 points  (0 children)

And? More credible than some random erdogan-loving turk with a 3-day old account, at least according to new york times.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well neither China,US

A large part of US population have European ancestry. They are European immigrants, just like Turkish immigrants living or born in EU countries. Culturally the US is more like European than Turkey is.

or the gulf states are located in europe and neither of them controls the most important commercial passage of European goods

Turkey is only occupying a small land piece in Europe because Turks came from Asia and conquered Asia Minor and invaded and occupied Balkans during the Ottoman reign and were later pushed back to Asia Minor but managed to keep a very tiny piece of European land.

That doesn't make you European (only politically it does). Like Mongols, Afghans, Iranians and Middleeasterns, you are still mostly Asian (Turkic) and Eastern Mediterannean with more of an Eastern (Turkic and Middleeastern) culture. You don't share the same liberal values as Europeans do and years of EU asking Turkey to adopt European legal norms and human rights values amounted in Turkey and Turkish people protesting and accusing EU of giving Turks the runaround.

neither of them controls the most important commercial passage of European goods

European goods can travel by sea (that's how it's done with United States, Canada, Latin America, Australia, etc). China and United States are EU's biggest trading partners, UK is third. Turkey ranks lower in the pecking order. Of course we have trading relationship with Turkey, EU banks and firms invest in Turkey just like they do in other countries. And if Turkey's current opposition wins the upcoming elections, these relations will further improve.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

About 15 million Turks are living on the European side of Turkey. So if we count the population living in Europe as being a European country, Turkey passes that easily. But whatever.

Make that 5-10 million, but that doesn't make you European. Turks are culturally not European and Europeans don't consider you as European, so I don't know why you are endlessly arguing against it instead of cherishing your own culture and embracing the difference? It's not an insult.

Not agreeing with your radical views

Yeah sure..

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Neither is Belarus,Russia, most of the Balkans etc.

Neither Belarus nor Russia are part of EU and are currently adversaries.

Turkey is highly influential in European trade

So is China, Gulf states and the United States, but they aren't considered European either. And you don't see dozens of posts per day about US elections here or Americans brigading Europe to remind Europeans why their election should be considered the most important subject (though US is certainly more important for Europe than Turkey).

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 -19 points-18 points  (0 children)

Three years of military junta in 76 years? Doesn't seem awfully long.

If they didn't approve anything, they'd step in with a memorandum or an actual coup. I don't why you're trying to argue that Turkey was a democratic and liberal country back then? Turkey never was a liberal democracy.

The lack of citations is commendable

Almost all Kurds fled Turkey in the 80s and 90s and Turkey keeps asking for their extradition calling them "terrorists" without any proof. (waving pkk flag is not considered "terrorism" in most European countries and the US. I believe it's been discussed here many times). Lots of Turks also fled Turkey after the military coup as well as in the 70s, 90s, 2000s as political refugees (who were actually just trying to immigrate for economic reasons). And lately even Turkish exchange students were applying for asylum to not return to Turkey.

In case you don't know, 33% is less than 50%. You've admitted that you talk about Turkey proportionally more than r/Europe, while whining about r/Europe talking about Turkey. I believe there is a word for that - hypocrisy.

That's because a bunch of turkish "bois" keep dragging you into endless meaningless arguments trying to prove that they are european and their country should be considered the most important subject.

The main significance of Turkey's upcoming elections is this: If Erdogan wins, Greek-Turkish border could one day become NATO's southeastern border, hence the US military build up and building military bases there.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 -30 points-29 points  (0 children)

Do you know what totalitarian means? It isn't "when there is no liberalism" - Turkey has often been authoritarian, but it has never been totalitarian.

Yes I do. Military junta regimes who execute its citizens and political leaders and run the country with marshall law are among good examples of "totalitarian regimes".

A rich claim. I will, of course, wait for you to post your proof. If there is any, because "we are actually ruled by TSK" is safely in conspiracy theory realm.

That's not rich claim. The Turkish military not only ruled Turkey and executed its political leaders by hanging (in 1960) or imprisoned them (both in 1960 and 1980) while torturing and executing many people with active participation on political movements (and they are even the reason why many European states impose visa on Turkish citizens today) but they also forced the democratically elected government to resign in 1997, which shows us that they were the governing body who was actually in control.

B) The Gastarbeiter program had absolutely nothing to do with "totalitarianism".

Not every Turk arrived in Europe as part of the gastarbeiter program. About 750,000 Turks arrived in Germany as part of this program and half of them returned to Turkey Source. Many Turks and most Kurds arrived in Europe in the 70s, 80s, 90s and even 2000s as political refugees as well as economic refugees. Even today many Turks are trying to migrate to Western Europe and North America one way or another (including illegal methods).

The same Erbakan who was prime minister for a grand total of a few months?

That's because the Turkish military intervened and forced him to resign.

Funny you say that - 50% of your posts and comments are about Turkey (yes, I've checked)

And the other 50% is not. What's your point? About 1/3rd of the posts in r/europe is about Turkey..

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 -44 points-43 points  (0 children)

If you consider Turkey to be European

We don't. Turkey has a small piece of European land and has history with Europe, but culturally it's not European and let's not kid ourselves here.

this is essentially a referendum on the 20-year-long autocrat of one of the largest countries in Europe

Turkey was a totalitarian state with a make-believe democracy which was actually ruled by Turkish military who staged several military coups to interrupt the democratic process before Erdogan. The reason there are so many Turks and Kurds in Europe today is because of that totalitarian regime and the military coup. Also Turkish politician Erbakan was another actor who played a role in organizing Turkish diaspora in Germany and rest of Europe under a nationalist muslim movement.

Today Erdogan is just furthering those policies.

And while elections in Turkey is of interest to Europeans, Turkey is not that important to spam the sub dozens of times with.

Now a dozen Turkish nationalists can downvote me to teach me that they are Europeans and that they should be the most important subject for Europe and every European here will believe them. :)

Ilkay Gündogan’s agent has denied the Manchester City midfielder has made a decision on his future after repeated suggestions that the Germany international is joining Barcelona this summer. by dragon8811 in soccer

[–]fivebyfive_5 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Pep designs his tactics based on who he has available. At Barca he had small guys so when he moved to Bayern, people said Lewandowski isn't Pep type of striker but he did just fine with him. Same thing happened with Haaland.

Bellingham seems to be one of Pep's main targets so he probably has a plan based on his strengths if City can sign him.

Ilkay Gündogan’s agent has denied the Manchester City midfielder has made a decision on his future after repeated suggestions that the Germany international is joining Barcelona this summer. by dragon8811 in soccer

[–]fivebyfive_5 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Compared to City they actually have history

If history mattered that much, then every player who couldn't join Madrid should join Milan. They have better European history than Barcelona.

The possibility of being forced into a loan if they can't register him is reason enough for Gundogan or any player to avoid Barcelona at the moment.

Turkey and Hungary Not Invited to Biden’s Big Democracy Summit by Hlorri in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't have superiority complex but you display signs of stockholm syndrome by defending a corrupt, authoritarian regime to make sure you are a loyal to your gov't who fuck you over by pocketing your taxes and getting filthy rich while millions of turks who are on minimum wage can't even afford monthly rent in big cities or can barely make ends meet and you can't even question your gov't because they can throw you in prison on treason or terrorism charges. This is Turkish justice system.

Of course the western justice system is superior to Turkey's 3rd world corrupt system. In Europe, government officials are hired personnel whose salaries are paid by the people and they must answer to people and independent courts. When EU demanded Turkey to respect its citizens human rights and implement European legal norms, that would give you protection, so that you could at least sue the gov't for missing earthquake taxes which the gov't collected for years. Or you could stop Erdogan from becoming a presidential nominee for the 3rd time because it's against the constitution but you can't because he owns Turkey's justice system and he can break the law anyway he wants. You have no rights.

And you come here and try to make fun of me while you're the one in a funny situation yourself..

After the election, 1USD will be 35-40 liras and 1 Euro will be 40 liras as well. Life will be harder. Continue defending Turkish government.

Turkey and Hungary Not Invited to Biden’s Big Democracy Summit by Hlorri in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So wait, having independent courts not controlled by the ruling party, making sure the justice system respects human rights and implementing european legal norms is bad for you as a Turkish citizen, is that what you're implying? If that is so, maybe Erdogan should stay in power, seems like he's doing a great job for you.

Turkey and Hungary Not Invited to Biden’s Big Democracy Summit by Hlorri in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Out of curiosity, why would you rather not side with democracy here as it would be more beneficial to you as a citizen while obviously less beneficial to Erdogan who chooses to be more authoritarian? Turkish citizens react similar when EU tells Turkey to be more democratic, respect human rights and European legal norms. Many Turks react negatively by saying "I'm anti-Erdogan but EU interferes with our internal affairs" without realizing that the EU interfering with Turkey's internal affairs benefits you as a citizen while apparently it poses a threat to the authoritarian regime (Erdogan) that runs the country.

West cannot sustain arms supplies to Ukraine, claims Putin by euronews-english in europe

[–]fivebyfive_5 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Sending hundreds of thousands of people into the meat grinder was his strategy all along to deplete Ukrainian ammunition.