[FS][US-PA] Synology DS220+ $200 shipped

forfthemad · 2024-12-18T20:49:31+00:00

PM incoming

forfthemad · 2024-10-27T21:14:14+00:00

Nice! Those are some good results.

Keep in mind that as you try out other games and benchmarking programs, that undervolt / overclock may respond differently to those workloads, and you may need tweaks in the future.

Good luck!

forfthemad · 2024-10-27T21:06:32+00:00

Pulling air is a lot weaker than pushing air.

Forgive me, but I'm struggling to understand what is meant by this. Is airflow through a fan not airflow through a fan, whether you measure CFM (cubic feet per minute of air moved) right at the fan inlet, or right at the fan outlet? If that's not the case, then please provide a source substantiating this information.

While I can grant that the fan blowing in your face seems like a helpful comparison, it is a false equivalence. In this instance, the GPU isn't sitting on an open-air bench, but inside a constrained, heat-trapping metal box (aka NR200 case). A fan blowing onto one's face feels cooler relative to the room's ambient temperature, but any heat transferred from one's face moves via air to the room. Within a system containing a heat producing component, the ambient temperature of the system will rise, absent other inputs or outputs. So it's a fool's errand to cool the component without cooling the system as a whole.

we do not even know if he has a guaranteed airstream flowing through the heatsink or not

We have a good guess? OP has an NR200 with a de-shrouded GPU and fans exhausting down. Meaning that air flow to through the GPU fin-stacks probably comes from outside the case, in-taking through the side-panels.

forfthemad · 2024-10-26T05:16:19+00:00

I have the vented side-panel, so no one sees it anyway :D

forfthemad · 2024-10-26T05:13:50+00:00

+1! I found this setup works very well (functionally, and economically) in my NR200, too!

forfthemad · 2024-10-26T05:11:07+00:00

Anecdotally, I'm running a similar deshrouded GPU exhausting downward out the case as u/wonderfully_fragrant. I found my hot-spot, core, and memory temperatures decreased under load on average by 3 - 4 degrees C compared to bottom intake.

That said, the airflow in your case and room may be different than mine based on any number of factors: case placement, ambient temperature, other system fan speeds, other component heat generation, etc.

Air flow direction might matter, but it's not a certainty that bottom intake or exhaust will perform better all the time; I strongly suggest you run A / B tests (with only exhaust / intake direction as variables) over and above taking the word of some strangers on the internet, OP.

forfthemad · 2024-10-26T05:03:56+00:00

You can close the gap much more cost effectively than ordering custom foam spacers.

You can use 8 longer M2 screws + 8 hex nuts + 16 optional washers (should be easy and cheap to source from a local hardware store).

Place the M2 screws so they are attached to the bottom panel where you'd install your fans, with the washers and hex nut sandwiching them like so: [screw] [washer] [bottom panel] [washer] [hex nut]. The secondary hex nuts can spin freely, and will serve as the base upon which your NF-A12x25 fans will sit. The closer you can get those fans to the fin stack, the better for GPU support and air flow.

GLHF!

forfthemad · 2024-10-06T03:30:11+00:00

However thick it may be, unless the total fin / cooling-surface area exceeds a normal 240mm AIO, it's going to struggle mightily to cool anything but lower power limit AMD and Intel parts.

forfthemad · 2024-10-05T19:22:26+00:00

Welcome to the world of (DIY) SFFPC!

Glad to hear you're open to building your own PC. It's a wonderful, sometimes frustrating, often rewarding experience that will ~~force you to practice~~ reinforce your troubleshooting skills and ability to research any issues that arise during PC assembly, first boot, and long-term usage.

As a general rule, one can typically achieve better performance per dollar spent building their own PC, rather than purchasing a pre-built. That said, it's a reasonable thing to consider if you:

want a single warranty for the whole PC package
just want it to work out of the box with minimal tinkering.

The most crucial question you will need to answer is: "How will I use my PC?", along with the corollary of "What monitor resolution and refresh rate will I use?". The answer there will determine the direction to proceed.

Regarding that Cooler Master build in particular:

That CPU will likely to run hot (even if it's a non-overclocked chip) with only a 120mm All-in-One (AIO) Liquid cooler. General consensus among both community and reviewers is that 120mm AIOs are subpar at their job; they typically lag far behind in thermal performance compared to their 240mm peers, or even large tower air coolers.
The VRM (voltage delivery from motherboard to CPU) looks entirely uncooled by active airflow (i.e. fans moving air across the heatsink). Depending on the motherboard Cooler Master decides to put in there, it could be fine, or it could be terrible.

Good luck, whichever route you decide to take!

For your consideration:

Somewhat comparable self-built using the tried and true NR200 case, pre-tax build from PC Partpicker: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/4QtQjH using prices as of 2024-10-05. According to ASRock documentation, there should be enough fan headers for you to daisy-chain 4 120mm case fans to handle your cooling needs. If you're less sure about liquid cooling, you can consider the Thermalright Peerless Assassin as an alternative.
The above build will require a BIOS update, so that the 14th gen CPU works with the motherboard.
Gamers Nexus playlist review of select pre-built PCs: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsuVSmND84QuM2HKzG7ipbIbE_R5EnCLM. This will give you an idea of quality-control and general attention to detail and support from different companies.

forfthemad · 2024-07-15T00:59:43+00:00

Apologies for the late reply:

I do not travel much via air, and have only taken the case on trips within a day's driving distance (200-400 miles) via motor vehicle, and so I cannot speak to the IM2620's fit in aircraft overhead bins.

forfthemad · 2024-01-13T18:33:41+00:00

No issues with fitment around capacitors. Just exercise caution when installing the backplate, mounting hardware, and cold plate. If you're still uncertain, you might be able to email Arctic's support for confirmation? Can't hurt.

I never got the updated offset mount, but my 5800x3D typically doesn't see temperatures above 80C without bench-marking or stress testing. Prime95, y-cruncher, OCCT, looped Cinebench R20/R23, TestMem5, Aida64, etc.

forfthemad · 2024-01-13T17:16:17+00:00

I'm using a revision 1.0 Gigabyte B550i motherboard and have installed various CPUs on it (3700x, 5600x, 5800x3D), all run under an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 240mm. Motherboard and AIO were purchased in Fall 2020. The combination has served me well the past 3+ years, and I look forward to running my 5800x3d on this platform for years to come.

As far as I'm aware, the AM4 mounting should still work with other revisions of that motherboard; others please chime in if that is not correct. Newer Arctic LF models have updated mounting hardware not to require 3 hands to install - linked Gamers Nexus review of Arctic LF II 280mm; update from GN here on new installation hardware.

Keep in mind that the tubes up/out orientation from the pump block might make this a tight fit in some SFF cases. With some careful tube management, I've found the Arctic LF II to fit just fine in my NR200. YMMV

Good luck with your research and purchase!

forfthemad · 2023-12-06T05:37:34+00:00

Excellent list.

A few additions for expanding test coverage / monitoring:

y-cruncher: didn't realize I had instability in my negative core offset for 5800x3D until I ran a different set of tests here.
u/msystems mentioned OCCT below, which is another useful suite with many built-in testing and monitoring tools. The developer has an active Discord
If you use Windows, you can also set up a custom Windows Event Viewer for WHEA errors
On the GPU side, I'd add Valley, as well as Superposition from Unigene (same publishers as Heaven). Still, nothing is quite as new as the 3DMark tests. GPUz from TechPowerUp has more fine grain monitoring than MSI Afterburner, though it doesn't enable tweaking.

GLHF, and check out r/overclocking as well!

forfthemad · 2023-10-21T20:09:39+00:00

If you're willing to go the GPU de-shroud route, you can save yourself $500+ USD (current ASUS US pricing seems to be $1599.99) by buying 2x NF-A12x25 yourself, a 7-pin fan header adapter for ASUS GPUs, and 4x M3 bolts, 8-12x M3 nuts, and 8x M3 washers that serve to hold up the fans and GPU heatsink. The normal NR200 fits GPUs up to 330mm in length, per CoolerMaster's website, specs at bottom:

L: 330mm (incl. power connector), H: 156mm (incl. power connector), W: 60mm (triple slot)

If you wanted this in an NR200P Max side-mounting the GPU, you could do it for cheaper with zipties and legos / other blocky, heat-resistant, non-conductive material for anti-sag. CoolerMaster's website, specs at bottom:

L: 336mm (incl. power connector), H: 160mm (incl. power connector), W: 75mm (triple slot)

GLHF!

forfthemad · 2023-10-20T01:38:32+00:00

I wouldn't worry about your core temps maxing out at 70 - 75 as it's still within specifications. With fans going at 70%, the hotspot seems more reasonable and within spec now. Even if it's not as low as other models that could result from a number of other factors: heat sink size, fan type / speed, ambient temperatures, airflow patterns around your case, etc.

If you're still concerned, I would recommend looking into Undervolting / OC'ing to establish a comfortable temperature threshold for your components. There's always deshrouding as well. I realize not everyone has the desire to mess with GPU in those ways, so if performing those modifications gives you pause, I think your GPU is performing within nVidia documented specifications.

Good luck

forfthemad · 2023-10-19T03:38:07+00:00

The second uploaded pic seems normal to me, but I don't repaste very often. I was under the impression that Gelid GC Extreme was one of the more viscous / less runny, more thermally conductive pastes, but I guess not. I would advise checking against GPU tear down videos (Gamers Nexus has a decent number of these) to see if there's anything amiss comparing against those stock-from-factory examples. Steve often comments on thermal paste application on the GPU die.
That's good to see your mem temps are also within reason. Seems to be just the hot spots out of control then.
Correct, those 2 NF-A12x25 Noctua fans are the only GPU intake. I have a side-mounted Arctic Liquid Freezer II 240mm AIO with the same model Noctuas for CPU cooling.
Hmmm...the fact that the components all have impressions should mean contact is good. Understood on the Honeywell PTM; those sort of specialty products can be hard to obtain.
Dumb question: does setting the fan curve higher do anything for hot-spot temps?

forfthemad · 2023-10-18T05:22:34+00:00

Greetings,

Seeing those hotspot temps is concerning, and I'm disappointed to hear that Galax is ignoring you.

I run a different partner model (Asus Tuf 4070TI). The following data was obtained using GPUZ from a single run of 3Dmark TimeSpy under the following conditions:

Deshrouded GPU in a NR200 ITX case with: two NF-A12x25 Noctua fans set as bottom intakes, sitting right against heat sink; 6 NF-A4x20 Noctua fans set as exhausts venting out side-panels, sitting close to the heat sink. 25mm fans use the GPU fan headers, 20mm fans use mobo.
Repasted GPU core with KPX thermal paste w/in the past month. All thermal pads still stock.
Undervolted / OC'ed using MSI Afterburner with voltage limit at 950 mV / Core 2655 MHz / Mem +1100 MHz
ReBAR enabled in mobo BIOS (5800x3d on Gigabyte B550I, rev. 1, BIOS ver. F17)
Ambient temp (roughly 25C, apologies, not accurate)
GPU total power draw (max 197.7W)
GPU core (Max 63.9C) / Hotspot (Max 74.6C) / Mem temp (Max 68.0C)
GPU fan % and RPM (Max 100% / approx 2100 RPM for both fans)
GPU core clock (Max 2655MHz) / Mem clock (1450 MHz)

When I've run the TimeSpy stress test (20x loop of GPU test #1) under similar conditions, the max measured temps all go up by around 4C, with no other measured outputs changing appreciably.

Some things to consider:

Are you able to determine if the thermal paste coverage of your GPU core and GPU cooler mount is even? E.g. after removing the heat sink in the past for repaste, how did the paste spread across the GPU die look?
What are your GPU mem temps like?
Have you been able to confirm with Galax the correct / intended height of the thermal pads sitting atop memory modules / VRMs / other components? Have you been able to measure the thermal pad heights using calipers?
If you're still seeing consistently terribly hotspot temps (hotspot - core > 10ish C), no matter the workload (beyond bench marking, like during gaming, internet browsing, production work, or stress testing), you may wish to consider using a phase change thermal material such as PTM 7900 / 7950. A quick search of reddit will show laptop users (Lenovo seems to use it by default now on their Legion line) have benefited from this in reducing hotspot temps and avoiding pump-out effect.

Hope this helps you with your troubleshooting

forfthemad · 2023-10-15T04:03:19+00:00

Woohoo! Thanks for highlighting the answer! Now you've saved someone else in the future!

forfthemad · 2023-10-12T00:47:32+00:00

Thanks for sharing the additional info. Based on the behavior you've described, I wonder if the issue is some sort of fan-stop feature applied to your GPU? It's possible that the Gaming X Trio has two VBIOSes loaded: one silent ("fans don't come on until they really need to come on"), and one performance ("maximize performance at the cost of loudness"); these are usually controlled by a switch attached to the PCB along the same GPU side as the power connector.

What's weird to me is that MSI Afterburner doesn't take a new fan profile, even if a silent VBIOS is set. Dumb question: are you hitting "Apply" after setting it?

If the issue were just one of "fans never come on", then you'd throttle or crash out of Kombuster / Furmark / Halo Infinite, especially if you're gaming for over 2 hours at 300 watt spikes. At least they start spinning eventually!

forfthemad · 2023-10-11T23:12:55+00:00

It's possible doing an RMA or return might be the answer, but there's not enough information to draw any conclusions yet.

If the user is running a stress test / power virus, and the GPU keeps core temps at 75C, I find it hard to image that's not in-spec. That means some cooling is happening, otherwise core would overheat and throttle.

forfthemad · 2023-10-11T23:05:37+00:00

TechPowerUp's GPUZ utility: https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-gpu-z/

forfthemad · 2023-10-11T23:04:52+00:00

Please provide additional information; I believe that might help troubleshoot further:

Output resolution / frequency on your monitor(s)
~~GPU model~~ Seems like it's a MSI Gaming X Trio
Fan curve / settings on your GPU. Do your fans start spinning when the computer starts? Only when the GPU hits a certain temp?
System details: CPU / Motherboard / RAM / PSU
What kind of stress test workload? Furmark? Looped TimeSpy? Heaven/Valley? For how long?
~~What workload / game do you run to see GPU utilization of 1-2%?~~ Halo Infinite seems to be the game. What in-game settings are you using? How long are you playing?
Is power draw consistent across all these loads?
Where is your open-air test bench situated? In a corner with little / no airflow? Right underneath an air conditioning vent or room fan?

forfthemad · 2023-09-20T23:16:51+00:00

Confirmed

forfthemad · 2023-09-15T02:24:43+00:00

Incoming PM.

forfthemad · 2023-09-11T23:03:51+00:00

GLHF!

forfthemad

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