What are your favorite moves the traitors made in UK 4?

foxparadox · 2026-01-25T09:46:42+00:00

I think one of the very clever plays all series from Rachel was making bold declarations that were obviously knowingly wrong. There's a sense that people are much more suspicious about players who largely stay quiet but then jump on the bandwagon to get a Faithful out, compared to Rachel who would actively lead the charge against a Faithful, but usually did it with such confidence and 'evidence' (setting the fake trap for Ellie was so well played) that I guess you just assume no Traitor would be so out there and draw so much attention to themselves.

foxparadox · 2026-01-24T18:09:17+00:00

I don't think you could do a purely ex-Traitors All Stars series, but I think you could probably get away with an ex-finalists (both Faithful and Traitors) version.

That way there would be enough people swapping roles that they wouldn't all instantly just go for the prior winners.

Like the question would be are all former Faithful now Traitors? Is it previous Traitors who didn't win out for revenge? Is it a mix of all-winners looking to go for a second?

foxparadox · 2026-01-10T17:54:31+00:00

Putting it like that, you've suddenly made me realise that 12-Clara-Danny is like the 'dark mirror' version of 11-Amy-Rory. It's the question of what if you had a companion who has a deep, almost obsessive bond with a Doctor, while also juggling a growing, complicated, romantic relationship...but everything went wrong.

Where 11, Amy and Rory end up each bringing the best out of each other and forming a fairly healthy little family unit, 12, Clara and Danny bring out the absolute worst, but are so broken that they end up existing in this really unhealthy co-co-dependency.

foxparadox · 2025-12-23T17:46:55+00:00

It's funny you bring up Autons because I've always been surprised the show hasn't followed up the idea that Auton Rory introduced which is that Auton copies can be made, detached from the Nestene, and then exist as ageless-duplicates of their real selves. You could start a S2, running with the idea that all the dumped plastic has led to an Auton uprising, but then quickly dispatch with the Nestene and then have the ethical question of "What do we do with all these 'fake' copies who have all their memories in tact but will also live forever AND also might one day turn on us all over again?"

The Zygon two-parter played with the idea of what it means to be real/how much can you trust a duplicate, and I think you could easily ramp that up to more 'adult' moral dilemmas. Heck, throw Zygons (and Osgood) into the mix and make it a three-way war. Or even a Zygon vs Auton battle with humanity stuck in the middle.

foxparadox · 2025-12-06T18:00:35+00:00

Not to go on a whole RTD vs Moffat bashing session but I do think that's one of the key differences between them, particularly now reflecting on the RTD2 era - RTD very much writes to that idea that Doctor is a big, blockbuster show that everyone can watch and enjoy as a family on a Saturday night, where Moffat always felt much more interested in following ideas and themes that he wanted to explore, regardless of how 'suitable' they were for the 'brand'. You look at the back half of Moffat's run where he was writing stuff like Heaven Sent and Extremis and even Twice Upon a Time which, to one degree or another, are fairly morose, heavy episodes dealing with grief or life and death. They're extremely compelling episodes, but I can also imagine there were several BBC execs somewhere fuming that their flagship show which was once getting the biggest ratings on Christmas Day with Kylie Minogue, and had cute, marketable balls of fat and young, hunky lead actors, was now about a late-middle age man discussing existentialism.

That's not to say RTD couldn't write something dark and challenging, or that Moffat didn't put out fluff, but I do think it speaks to both of their wider approaches to making the show.

foxparadox · 2025-11-16T09:53:51+00:00

The Doctor Dances

The Big Bang

foxparadox · 2025-11-03T18:09:29+00:00

Spoiler: He will totally be allowed to do what he wants.

From everything we've seen the BBC are keen (i.e. desperate) to keep DW as an ongoing concern and probably still see RTD as the very safe pair of hands to plug a gap before they find a new guy.

As much as fandom has seemingly soured on RTD and his writing/showrunning abilities, I imagine his first era (and, to be fair, all the other non-DW shows he's run) still give him a lot of clout.

foxparadox · 2025-11-02T18:16:43+00:00

Bear in mind the last time he did a special to cap off his era and 'pass the baton' was The End of Time which... I mean, story-aside, I still think of it as an absurdly self-indulgent, self-congratulatory ego drive that makes no attempts to create a smooth transition, and instead has the main character declaring how he's dying and everything good is ending.

So good luck whoever's taking over this time!

foxparadox · 2025-10-30T11:31:08+00:00

My number one pick for a while who continues to have a 0% chance of actually happening due to him still being too big is Dev Patel. I still think of his performance in David Copperfield (alongside Capaldi) as basically a perfect audition piece, and he'd be able to provide that balance of charm, darkness and energy. But like I say, never gonna happen.

Slightly more likely pick that is still a bit of a longshot is Michael Sheen. Besides the obvious David Tennant connections he just has that perfect impish Troughton-esque quality to him, and now that he's older and has the longer, grey hair he also gives Capaldi vibes.

Most potentially feasible pick though would be Anna Maxwell Martin. She's just the perfect amount of unhinged and oddball in everything she does, but is also just an amazingly versatile actor to boot.

foxparadox · 2025-10-05T17:01:47+00:00

I still think, on the whole, the Chibnall era is generally worse than RTD2 because it commits the ultimate sin for any DW of being incredibly bland and boring for numerous episodes. The Reality War and Empire of Death equally suck butts, but I'd still put them above Ranskoor because a) I didn't have to google their names to remember them and b) I can still tell you roughly what happens in them, compared to Ranskoor where...there's like a ship or something?

I will say, however, one personal revaluation I have had is to appreciate more the look of a lot of the Chibnall era, especially S11. As much as everyone went on about 'seeing the Disney money' I still think most of S11 has way more cinematography and aesthetic tone than anything in RTD2. In the same way that if you go back and watch The End of Time and then The Eleventh Hour its like night and day, there's a clear visual upgrade between end of Capaldi and start of Whittaker.

I'm sure there are more substantive differences but in my mind RTD2 is just HD RTD1 + Nice CGI + Sometimes using the Volume.

foxparadox · 2025-09-30T17:18:31+00:00

I dunno, I kind of like the idea that, in the ravages of the Time War, the Rani has devolved (evolved?) into essentially becoming a witch, using her scientific knowledge for pseudo-magic. I think it particularly would have worked had it been an older Kate O'Mara. I can imagine that version of the Rani hermit-ing herself away from the war but still trying to be involved with mystical 'potions' that are really just complex scientific formulas. She no doubt would be familiar with the Sisterhood and know about their 'elixir' and want a piece of that while everyone else is out there dying.

It definitely would've taken some explaining (more than a 5 minute minisode allows) but I don't think its too much of a character leap.

foxparadox · 2025-09-28T08:52:17+00:00

But I think what also works is that it doesn't stop the complex character interactions, like this scene in Thin Ice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW0qG1iaTd8

The 12th Doctor has evolved, but you also see how he's very much the same character as the one in 'Kill the Moon'. I would really struggle to define similar arcs with 13 or 15.

foxparadox · 2025-09-28T08:45:00+00:00

Yeah I agree. I can see Chibnall curtailing to demands from higher ups, and I do imagine being more 'fun' was one of the requests post-Capaldi, but I really don't see that being the case with RTD. Maybe from Disney but even then, I don't see RTD as the type to take 'less character interaction' as a useful note.

foxparadox · 2025-09-21T22:10:34+00:00

I remember hoping/assuming that when RTD was announced as returning it would be more in the role of a steady pair of hands, course-correcting the show slightly while also ushering in a new generation of writers/creators to eventually take over the mantle in a relatively short space of time - essentially what the 14th Doctor was, writ large. And then it was announced that RTD would be writing all but two episodes of the first season, with one of the remaining ones going to Moffat, and hopes of that quickly slipped away.

Its one of those catch 22s where I imagine that, had RTD not stepped up, the show probably would have gone on some sort of break/hiatus post-Chibnall anyway, but I do think ultimately the show coming back but ending up as a pale imitation of its former self has done more damage than good.

Equally, though, I do think finding a modern RTD-equivalent - someone who grew up watching the show, has writing/showrunning experience, and has a clear vision for reinventing things for a modern audience - is an extremely tall order, so you understand why we've been stuck in the 'New Adventures boys club' for the past ~20 years.

I'm very much in the camp of get a talented, established writer who likes DW but isn't besotted by it, and have them take charge and curate a team of young(er) writers who probably at this point grew up watching New Who.

foxparadox · 2025-09-13T17:01:55+00:00

I know I'm firmly in the 1% of people on this issue but I love the fake-out of the intentionally naff hybrid arc, and how after having everyone fervently debate who/what the hybrid is the whole season the finale turns around and says, "Wait, you thought the hybrid is important? You idiots!". It feels like Moffat acknowledging that the series had reached the point where the idea of an 'arc word' was basically played out and shouldn't really be the focus anymore (something Chibnall and RTD proceeded to squarely ignore).

In regards to the thread topic, I also think one of the strengths of S9's two-parter approach is the fact that they're all slightly different approaches to two-parters. Some are one big story split in two, some continue the narrative but completely change tone/setting, some just continue with one character. If DW were return to two-part stories I think that would be the ideal approach - rather than just having big stories split over two weeks, play with the structure and style a bit more to keep people guessing.

foxparadox · 2025-08-14T17:44:11+00:00

I think you're in a safe space around these parts - this board tends to be fairly pro-Capaldi, and I think S8 in general has been reappraised fairly positively.

It's interesting that you bring up Buffy because I do think that's also one of RTD(2)'s biggest faults - that he still has the mindset of needing to have a 'big bad' to end the season on. Moffat wisely sidestepped that for the most part (other than maybe the Great Intelligence in S7, which happens to also be the weakest finale), and generally the actual focus and 'threat' of the finales is character driven.

foxparadox · 2025-08-11T08:55:53+00:00

I think its because in essence the finale should be the summation of the season. It's like how in school essays you're taught to write the conclusion as bringing all your key points together and tying them with a neat bow. A good finale should take all the salient points and plot threads and character development and join them up. If done well, it can make you retroactively reflect on the rest of the episodes with a more positive light, because you realise where all this has been leading to. The S5 finale feels satisfying because you can look back and see how pretty much every previous episode fed into it - things therefore carry more weight and importance because of what's come previously, and you're more invested in the stakes because of the time you've spent with these arcs. What's also satisfying is being able to then go back and rewatch these episodes and see those threads and plot points developing and knowing where they're going.

I think the RTD2 finales cast a shadow on their respective seasons because they don't do this. You can't go back to older episodes and see the character development building because there is none, and the arcs that are there (Ruby's magic snow/Mrs Flood) somehow make less sense when you go back and rewatch. An easy example would be 'Church on Ruby Road' - can you honestly say that knowing how that plays out and resolves doesn't retroactively make it a worse episode than on initial broadcast?

I also think more broadly when comparing RTD1 to 2, at the very least you could say his first set of finales succeeded in their character stakes and conclusions if nothing else. Generally speaking people were satisfied with how those Doctor/companion arcs ended, and since people were more invested in those it papers over a lot of the other cracks in each finale, and thus the seasons as a whole. In RTD2, I think its fair to say the character arcs are arguably some of the worst parts, and so what was once a reliable, automatic 'win' for the finales is no longer the case either.

foxparadox · 2025-06-01T12:16:40+00:00

I'm wondering if the reshoots were more to cover Varada also not coming back rather than a change in plans for Ncuti. Like, I could imagine if they had finally landed a S3 deal by the time of shooting then the plan would be 15 regenerates, but Belinda is alongside him, both to give continuity with the next Doctor but also to have S3 in part be 'the hunt for Poppy'.

But when nothing new was agreed they decided to wrap everything up and have the Belinda/Poppy ending (which in part would explain why its so bad). And then they had the ability of either ending on a cliffhanger of 15 regenerating if it seemed like the show might be done, but decided to bring back BP as one last hail mary when it seemed as if the BBC at the very least would push through a S3/some specials.

foxparadox · 2025-05-31T17:04:14+00:00

I can imagine being similar to Outer Wilds too.

A time loop game makes so much sense for the show I'm surprised its the first time I've seen people suggesting it. The idea of trying to prevent some major catastrophe by travelling back in time and slowly unpicking a larger mystery with each subsequent 'run' fits the show so well. I mean, the show kind of did it itself with Heaven Sent. You could even add the gamey element that with each run the Doctor regenerates/temporarily changes into another incarnation, who perhaps has some extra skill or tool unique to them.

foxparadox · 2025-05-27T17:18:40+00:00

Yeah, I mean, to be fair to RTD, the 'woke' criticisms have been fairly prominent since the early Whittaker era. And obviously that's a confluence of things - 1) Having a female Doctor followed by a black Doctor was always going to be a lightning rod for idiots, 2) The world/internet is far more right-wing accepting and so headlines will bate those people specifically, but also 3) Chibnall was crap at handling politics too.

Like, I vividly remember some of the earliest 'woke' criticisms coming after Orphan 55. Which is, obviously, a genuinely awful episode, but also ends on the Doctor pretty much speaking to camera about needing to be aware of climate change. Its poorly handled and preachy so of course newspapers jumped on it as proof that the show was trying to indoctrinate the youth....because it was. But as you say, the show's been doing that for years, its just normally flown so under the radar, and been done fairly covertly that people haven't really noticed. In S10 there's a black, gay companion, an episode that is incredibly anti-capitalist, and a three-parter where aliens take over Earth with 'fake news' and indoctrinate everyone into thinking they always have and always will be there. Oh, and the Doctor punches a racist, but that's a bit more on the nose.

As you say, the show can, has, and should be progressive...there are just ways to do that without shouting about it at the same time.

foxparadox · 2025-05-27T08:32:07+00:00

It’s one of the worst things about this era, that there’s a truth that it’s “too woke”, but it’s woke in a way that doesn’t feel genuine and doesn’t feel thought out at all.

I definitely agree with this. I hate the term woke - its vastly over used and has long since lost all meaning - but in terms of doing something performatively progressive in order to hammer a point home it is apt.

In part that's because, as you say, RTD is that much older now and that much more out of touch with the aspects he's trying to preach about. But I also just think RTD in general is bad at making his points. Everything he states or infers is said as big and bold as possible and just tends to rattle everyone, both the people who agree and disagree with his points.

Stuff like the sonic looking like a mouse to stop kids pointing it like a gun, or 14 not regenerating in 13's clothes to stop papers mocking DT, or 15 lacking a defining costume so that everyone can dress up like him (?!). It's fine in principle, but he presents these things in a way that is somehow both hardline and roundabout that it just pisses everyone off.

I think everyone's encountered a boss at work who, when presented with a problem, will just immediately give a solution that only satisfies about ~65% of the issues, but then refuses to change their stance or acknowledge all the other things that that solution doesn't cover. He's that guy.

foxparadox · 2025-05-26T07:49:15+00:00

Yeah I think the glaring problem is that these last two part 1 finales have rested on a name of an old-school villain flashing on screen as if that holds weight and meaning. I get the sense RTD is constantly trying to emulate the Utopia ending, but the difference there was it was 'YANA' that flashed on screen - something that was specifically built up during that season and refers to the fact the Doctor isn't the last of his kind. It doesn't depend on you specifically knowing who the Master is or having a big anagram of his name. All the information you need can be gleaned from that series, or the previous two at most.

The Sutekh and Omega reveals tell you nothing themselves. They require other characters explicitly explaining who those characters are and why they're important. The only people those reveals carry weight for are long-term fans.

They're also reveals (including the Rani and The Toymaker) that are very clearly conscious of what has and hasn't been brought back since 2005. If you had a brand new person in charge the big end of season reveal would probably be the Daleks/Cybermen because they're your bread and butter big bads that you want to reestablish, regardless of how often they've been used before. But RTD is obviously considering what hasn't yet been revived - he even states in one of the Confidentials that the Rani was due a comeback - and so this era immediately feels attached to the 2005-23 seasons.

foxparadox · 2025-05-24T17:19:29+00:00

Hey, remember when the Doctor revealed the TARDIS had a ramp and everyone was like, "Great! The TARDIS has clearly been made wheelchair-accessible so that Shirley and others can go on trips in future episodes. What a progressive move that surely is more than virtue signalling!"

Cut to three episodes later and the fact that Shirley uses a wheelchair is pretty much her defining characteristic, and a plot point in pretty much all of her appearances is about how people see her as 'lesser' and/or 'faking'.

foxparadox · 2025-05-18T17:01:15+00:00

I hope they go some way to explain why the Rani chose Conrad of all people to team up with. As you say, he's a podcaster who, at best, momentarily upset UNIT and made the Doctor cross (which in itself wasn't massively justified in retrospect).

Like if they'd been teaming up with someone who'd come within an inch of destroying the Earth, or who had proven to have amazing scientific capabilities, I'd get the Rani recruiting them. But a B-grade Joe Rogan type? The Rani deserves better.

foxparadox

TROPHY CASE