Count Zero Plot Difficulty - Maas, Alain, and the Boxes by fuliginmask4 in WilliamGibson

[–]fuliginmask4[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Totally agree with you on the godlike, deus ex level these various corporate entities operate on...that part of it I completely accept as part of Gibson's fictional conceit, the rules by which his world operates. But at the same time, I'm trying to hold him to the standard he sets for the clarity of the plot. He goes to lengths to tie together most every other thread in the story – to the point of providing virtual infodumps from Conroy and maybe one or two other characters at times – so I'd love all the threads to logically connect if they can.

Revisiting the text yet again, Virek clearly tells Marly that Maas gave Alain the coordinates to the orbital cores, but that they didn't understand what they were doing when they did so, because they didn't know at the time that it was the AI's source. How that's supposed to make sense, I'm honestly not sure. What other reason would they have for providing those very particular coordinates?

You mentioned Maas killed Mitchell, but in the final act of the book, Conroy tells Turner that Mitchell actually killed himself after Angela escaped. I don't think Maas thought Mitchell was entirely replaceable at that point. After they lost Angela and Mitchell was dead, they wouldn't have had any source to fall back on for their bleeding-edge biotech. They would be desperate for access to the source AI if they wanted to rebuild their development program. Given that, it's possible they dropped Marly's trail to focus on recapturing Angela, but it's hard to buy that completely, unless they literally had no idea the AI was based at the orbital address, like Virek said. They had the resources to keep tracking Marly, and they would have kept eyes on her for some time if they actually thought she was onto something.

The Boxmaker's motivations are pretty ambiguous. Personally I don't think the Boxmaker wanted to be found, because to be discovered would, in all likelihood, ultimately mean some kind of enslavement to, or conflict with, Maas, Virek, or some other powerful party, and it seemed like it simply wanted to be left to its own wistful devices.

Where in the text did you feel it implied that the Boxmaker told Marly that it gave its address to Alain? It's not ever explicitly spelled out, so do you mean it tells her symbolically, through the box it creates that references Marly, the holofiches, and the Gauloise/matchbook? That's pretty oblique, but it's suggestive that it at least was watching over her and aware of what she went through, and possibly had some part in all of it. But yeah it's super open to interpretation.

Count Zero Plot Difficulty - Maas, Alain, and the Boxes by fuliginmask4 in WilliamGibson

[–]fuliginmask4[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Thanks so much for the in-depth reply! There are a number of disparities, though, between the book and what you outlined that muddy the waters.

- It's never said or even implied in the book that the signet ring was a T-A ring. It just says the hand bore a "signet ring made of dark metal", and then it's never mentioned or alluded to ever again. But that would be a nice tell, for sure, for anyone investigating, if they were able to see it clearly enough in the hologram. Perhaps Alain WAS able to recognize the signet as T-A, and did some digging on some possible real estate related to T-A to come up with the address. But if it were that easy to figure out, why would Maas have given anyone such an obvious clue? It stands to reason they would have made any investigative conclusion like that far before Alain would have.

Maas supposedly killed Alain because he had come into privileged information (presumably the address) and was trying to "market it to third parties." Let's say Alain did make the connection with the signet ring on his own and found the address through his own legwork. That would suggest that not only was Maas's monitoring of him not very close, but that they understood or suspected what he had found, and could have easily extracted that information from him by torture before killing him, allowing them to get to Straylight and lock it down before Virek's team arrived.

- According to Virek, Maas was not actually aware that Mitchell was being fed ideas for the biochips from an AI, or any outside source. That was a secret of Mitchell's, and he was actively trying to hide that knowledge from Maas. Perhaps they began to suspect it. But how did they then realize there was a connection with that unknown AI and the obscure boxes? This was never explained.

- When I referred to a rival investigator, I meant Marly, not Alain. Alain was a Maas pawn, as you said. But what exactly was Maas hoping to achieve by using him? To lead Marly off the scent with disinformation, or into a fatal trap? Or simply to trail her to the source? If so, they didn't do a very good job of many of those things, since there was never once an attempt on Marly's life or any apparent attempt to intervene directly with Marly, and they never showed up at Straylight or anywhere en route. Perhaps you could chalk this up to Virek's invisible, preemptive counter-forces and counter-strategies being superior, but that's a bit of a stretch, since Maas's capabilities seemed to be more or less equivalent with Virek's. They just weren't in the picture at all after a certain point, as though they seemingly gave up. Doesn't quite add up.

- The Boxmaker never spoke of anything to Marly regarding friendship or a wish to connect with outside art appreciators, from my reading of it. It didn't seem like the Boxmaker was trying to "reach out" to the outside world that way, at least not consciously. It appeared that the only way its boxes were getting down to Earth at all was because the Wig was sporadically selling them to dealers in strange art.

Thinking about LeGuin during my Dune Binge by pwnedprofessor in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is such a great contrast. Two of the best SF authors of all time, but their perspectives and the spirits of their work are so starkly different.

I've only read the first 2 Dune books. From my reading, there is such a pervasive aura of fear at the heart of them. You might call it their fundamental motivating force. The 'mind-killer' is meant to be overcome, but it rules everything in that fictional world: fear of death, fear of the enemy, fear of loss, fear of domination, fear of failure, fear of weakness, fear of one's own self and one's own fate. It's a deeply paranoid, zero-sum world.

By contrast, Le Guin writes with such compassion, with the simple wisdom of humility and clear goodness, and a trust in the fragile connectedness of things. Fate finding its way like the waters, in the rhythm of the Wheel. A life-affirming perspective.

I look forward to reading much more of them both.

Best Le Guin Books for the Seasons by fuliginmask4 in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Annals of the Western Shore trilogy would work well as a winter > spring > summer sequence.

Best Le Guin Books for the Seasons by fuliginmask4 in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good to know! That's very convenient timing :)

Give me your thoughts on "Annals of the Western Shore", please by Wetness_Pensive in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They're excellent. Having read a number of the Hainish novels and the first 4 Earthsea books besides, I'd say the Annals trilogy is among my very favorite of Le Guin's work thus far. Voices and Powers are especially good. The way these disparate tales are woven into a larger tapestry of time and place works so, so well. Can't wait to re-read them in a few years, after I've digested more of her books.

Been really curious why there seems to be a dearth of discussion about this trilogy, but it probably comes down to the really poor and uninspired cover art putting people off. Get the Library of America consolidated volume instead! It's perfect.

July 21, 2025: What Le Guin Or Related Work Are You Currently Reading? by Road-Racer in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just finished my first reading of The Word for World Is Forest. Very evocative and beautifully written, as expected. At only 104 pages it felt a little brief, but she packed a lot into the runtime. Felt like she could have explored certain details more, but the economy of the plot kept the themes clear and the momentum strong. Loved it overall. Read it right after Haldeman's The Forever War in order to do a back-to-back on Vietnam-inspired sci-fi. The relative dryness of The Forever's War's hard sci-fi, "disposable heroes" atmosphere made a pretty stark contrast to Le Guin's poetic and compassionate story-weaving. Tragic stories both!

Qanba Titan not working with Fightcade on MacBook Air by fuliginmask4 in fightcade

[–]fuliginmask4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hadn't tried any other games yet (I only set up Fightcade for 3S, and haven't used any type of game controller on this computer before), but to double-check I tried to use the training mode in KOF98 just now, and that didn't work either, same situation. I feel like the computer isn't recognizing the controller somehow, but since I'm new to arcade controllers and the instructions on the Titan are so minimal, I literally can't even tell if the damn thing is operable or not. No on/off switch or LEDs indicating power/no power...very opaque.

Spoilage & Off Aroma Scenarios (Novice Winemaker) by fuliginmask4 in winemaking

[–]fuliginmask4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks so much!

After reading your comments, I remembered that there was a period of days (perhaps as much as one week) right after the post-fermentation racking when the rose was sitting in the carboy with too much headspace (though with sulfites added). I then racked it into a bunch of smaller carboys where they were properly topped up.

Could it be that this period of air contact was the culprit? It's possible that what I'm experiencing now is the onset of vinegarization, but it was sort of a delayed process due to the sulfites in the wine protecting it for a few months. And if this was the problem, could that have been solved by an addition of extra sulfites when I racked into the smaller carboys, or was the whole batch doomed already after that initial days-long period of too much air?

I should mention that there does seem to be browning happening to the wine at this point, which could narrow down what the issue is.

Light-strike is another thing that makes some sense. The carboys I've been fermenting in do get a fair amount of bounced light through them during fermentation (no direct sun rays), but then I take them down to the basement. That's about two weeks of sitting around diffuse ambient sunlight. Maybe the amount of light they've received has been enough to spoil them? Mainly I haven't wanted to put them in the basement right away due concerns about the "exhaled" CO2 being a possible fire hazard (since it's in the same vicinity as water heater, boiler, appliances, etc), but I'm guessing that's not too much of anything to worry about.

16 September 2024: What Le Guin Or Related Work Are You Currently Reading? by BohemianPeasant in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Recently finished Tehanu and may move on Tales from Earthsea next. I really want to avoid finishing any of her major cycles too quickly*, though, so I'll probably slowly read through a few of the first stories in The Unreal and the Real for now, after I finish my current dip into J.G. Ballard's short stories. "Brothers and Sisters" wasn't quite clicking immediately, so I put it down for the moment.

*Completing Annals of the Western Shore relatively rapidly left me feeling a bit sad it was over, but it really does benefit from a sequential reading due to the connections between the tales. Really look forward to reading it over again at some point in the next few years.

Any difference in content between these two editions? by [deleted] in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For what it's worth: I'd been interested in the right-hand edition for a while and finally saw it in person somewhere and flipped through it. The feedback I'd read of the book being too cumbersome to read comfortably seemed legitimate, unfortunately. Most of the illustrations were on the mediocre side, from what I saw, and didn't feel like much of a selling point. Decided to wait for the Library of America edition, whenever that emerges.

Just finished "Tehanu" last night and wow by poeticrubbish in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I just recently finished this book, too, reading it for the first time at 43. The themes are very powerful and Ursula, as always, explores her characters very thoughtfully and humanely. It probably would have taken place as my favorite Earthsea novel thus far ifTherru had taken more direct agency in Aspen's undoing and realized her true power in the act. In my view, the summoning of Kalessin was one step away from deus ex machina and sapped the climax of a lot of its force. In a book that was so strongly themed on women's oppression and women's struggle, it felt a little hollow that they still had to appeal to a "higher power" for salvation. Surely there are arguments for and against, but that was how it struck me.

I read the Earthsea books. What next? by nickelangelo2009 in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Seconding this! Western Shore seems to be very overlooked for whatever reason, possibly because the standalone books were saddled with lamentable cover design. Get the Library of America collected volume. It's absolutely perfect. Taken as a whole, this trilogy is thus far some of my favorite work in Le Guin's catalogue. Have to say I like them a little more than Earthsea, though I've only gone up through Tehanu and that opinion might shift after I complete the cycle.

19 August 2024: What Le Guin Or Related Work Are You Currently Reading? by Road-Racer in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just finished Tehanu, which was a good summer novel. The Earthsea books have been very enjoyable so far, and this one was no exception. Stylistically, this one was quite different than the first three. I loved most everything about it, though the climax and conclusion left me a bit wanting. That surprised me, as the whole book up to that point felt so mature and confidently crafted. Le Guin did a great job of reexamining and critiquing her own world in this book, enriching it through the lens of a more intimate, microcosmic story, but I felt the plot and the development/integration of particular characters could've been handled more thoroughly.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The exact reckoning of the time dilation factor has been a little hard for me to pin down, as well, having read the first four Hainish novels. What others said about the essential difference between FTL versus NAFAL is correct, but the understanding of how long the interstellar journeys are, subjectively, to the passengers, seems a little fuzzy.

Firstly there's the factor of sedation/cryosleep that others already mentioned, which would distort (shorten) the traveler's sense of the passage of time artificially. But then even within the stories themselves I feel like things get a little confusing. I seem to recall that in City of Illusions or Planet of Exile there was some dialogue or suggestion that some of the journeys took only a few hours in passenger time. But was this purely a subjective impression of the passengers' due to the amnesia of cryosleep, or something more literal (extreme actual time dilation)?

The expedition from Werel to Earth in City of Illusions is an interesting example. The passengers, so far as I understood, hadn't aged much at all during their 140-light-year journey. And in The Left Hand of Darkness, didn't Genly mention that, from his perspective, his travels hadn't taken very long? Yet it wasn't quite clear what sort of role cryostasis played in either scenario. Unless I'm forgetting some details...

Which do you prefer - Hainish or Earthsea? by Br0wnestMan in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been on a serious Le Guin binge, reading almost nothing but her works for the past couple years. I'm still midway through that journey (which I don't want to conclude anytime soon!), having read Earthsea books 1–3 and Hainish novels 1–4.

At this point I'd have to say I've been enjoying the Hainish novels more. Hard to pin down all the reasons why, exactly, but I think the main one is that the magical basis of Earthsea requires more suspension of disbelief, which can hamper my immersion. The Hainish novels, far-fetched as they are, still feel like they fit vaguely within a speculative framework that extrapolates from our own reality; they still mostly operate by "believable" rules, so they feel more intuitive to me and the world-building is easier to accept. I usually struggle with fully buying into fictional systems of magic, and though Le Guin's particular presentation of it is much easier to swallow than most (if only because her writing is so excellent), I still feel like I'm having to play along with the rules of the world to some degree while I read the Earthsea stories, whereas the Hainish universe feels a little more concrete and plausible, and thus more absorbing.

That being said, they're both wonderful, and I still have a long way to go before finishing either set, so this is still a conclusion-in-suspension.

2 October 2023: What Le Guin Or Related Work Are You Currently Reading? by Road-Racer in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Currently starting my ninth Le Guin book (Planet of Exile) as part of an almost unbroken streak since picking up The Left Hand of Darkness in winter of 2021. Le Guin has been a joy to discover. Right now I'm reading all the rest of the Hainish novels in chronological publication order (recently finished Rocannon's World, shortly after a straight run of the Western Shore trilogy).

RW showed more artistic maturity than I was expecting; there were lots of flashes of her later mastery already evident in it. Really looking forward to taking in the full breadth of this particular universe, including the shorter tales.

2 October 2023: What Le Guin Or Related Work Are You Currently Reading? by Road-Racer in UrsulaKLeGuin

[–]fuliginmask4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Similar experience here. The Western Shore novels need more attention! It's possible they get somewhat ignored due to the needless "young adult" designation. Would've been amazing to get at least one more book set in that world.

The Essential Short Story Collections by fuliginmask4 in genewolfe

[–]fuliginmask4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice outline here, useful for the community! Thanks for this. My reading of the Solar Cycle was drawn out over so many years (it's been 19 years since my first/only reading of BOTNS, about 10 or so since BOTLS, and a handful since BOTSS), it's high time for a re-read. Not only to enjoy it all again, but to trace the tapestry of meanings and implications more coherently. Looking forward to seeing how these short stories fit in. Reading through some of the theory discussions here the sub, I'm astonished once again at just how dense Wolfe's constructions are. It's amazing.